Shop lighting

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20920
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Shop lighting

    Hmmm, there's been a 4' Flourescent fixture in my shop that's been intermittent. Sometimes/most of the time, it comes on and sometimes it doesn't. Eventually some many minutes later it will pop on. Of course, banging on it won't make it start. My DP and BS are right under it so when it doesn't work, Its annoying.

    Finally replaced it with a 4-ft LED fixture from Amazon, same as three others I have... It was the last of my T12 fixtures and I still have three T8 fixtures and four LED fixtures.
    I don't think I have had any T8 fixtures fail, many T12 over the years - at one time I had all T12s.I think 5 or 6 starting out. So probably 6 or more (probably replaced some T12 with newer T12s at one point) failures from both magnetic and electronic ballasts. So the T8s are a lot more reliable.

    Just for grins I checked the T12 Vs LED... 56 W Vs 36 W and roughly the same brightness. So its better.

    I've been putting cool whites 4000-5000 K in the garage where I originally had warmer colored.

    Now, I've got a dusty, mostly working but sometimes intermittent T12 fixture I guess will get trashed. I think I still have more than a half dozen T12 bulbs from the office when they trashed the T12 fixtures and replaced then with T8. I guess those are trash, too. I only have one fixture left in the house with T12, in my study. come to think of it. Can you even buy the bulbs? I think so.

    I probably no longer have a calibration source for my RPM meter. I used to be able to point it at a magnetically ballasted T12 fixture and it would read 7200 RPM, the effective frequency of 120 Hz (2 times the line frequency) fluorescents. Of course electronic ballasts use higher frequencies and can't be depended upon for a given value like the line frequency.

    Any comments on shop lighting? Hasn't been discussed lately.







    Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-02-2020, 02:06 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • capncarl
    Veteran Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 3564
    • Leesburg Georgia USA
    • SawStop CTS

    #2
    My first thought in shop lighting....... I don’t believe that a shop ceiling is big enough to hold enough light fixtures!

    Comment

    • twistsol
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2002
      • 2893
      • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
      • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

      #3
      In my 26 x24 shop I had 26 recessed cans with 120w equivalent floods and 12 halogen spots. I considered that sufficient at the time. Haven't yet figured out what I'm going to do for lighting in the new shop yet but it will likely be overkill because that's just my way. Framing on the new house/shop is supposed to start this week ... only a month late.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Chr's
      __________
      An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
      A moral man does it.

      Comment

      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20920
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #4
        I have 2 bare bulb light fixtures - original controlled by the switch by the door, one is LED the other CFL for some reason.

        I have an unfinished garage so from the rafters I have hanging 7 4' fixtures.The power for 6 of them is controlled by a remote switch, actually a triple remote. It operates the lights, the air compressor and the big dust collector from the center of the shop, next to the table saw. That's why I have the two overhead lights controlled by the door switch so I can find my way out in the dark after turning off all the shop lights. And protection against losing all the shop lighting all to one breaker tripping.

        I also have a individual light on the bandsaw, the grinder, the drill press, the router table. MY son in law was impressed- do you have a light on every stationary tool? pretty much yes, I said.

        When I have all the lights on I have about 500 Watts running; I figure it costs about 5 cents an hour to light the shop. Cheap enough.

        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • twistsol
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 2893
          • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
          • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

          #5
          My 25 LED floods were 17 watts each for a total of 425 watts. The halogen spots used more power than the main lighting so they weren't used often. Once I turned on the heater though, the cost of running the lights was insignificant.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Chr's
          __________
          An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
          A moral man does it.

          Comment

          • Carlos
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 1893
            • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

            #6
            Everyone has different spaces and needs. One problem I used to have is lighting where the garage door goes. I nearly always work with the door open. So I hung some super lightweight 12v LED strips on the door itself and ran power through a flex tube to the door. It hangs in the middle of the door travel, so it can open/close. The transformer is plugged into the door opener so the lights go on/off with the door controller. Although I'm going to move that to a Homekit power controller. These days when I want shop time, I just scan my phone on an NFC tag on the door or say "Siri, garage time," and all the lights, fans, and doors are set up for me.

            Comment

            • cwsmith
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 2737
              • NY Southern Tier, USA.
              • BT3100-1

              #7
              When I ordered my 12 x 20 shed a few years ago, I opted for gambrel roof, as it offers a lot more ceiling height. I also added a 5-ft loft at both ends. The construction has two, roughly 2 x 3 ties at the top of the two longer walls. From those I hand two 4-ft LED shop lights on each and that lights up the work space quite well. I will be adding two more LED shop lights, one at each end, under the lofts, which will bring the total count to six shop lights in that 12 x 20 floor space.

              I find the normal 5500 K shop lights much too harsh and glaring, so I opted for a Sunco Lighting 4-pk of 4000K shop lights. I think they were around $84, which was much cheaper than I could buy locally. These are basically metal housing/reflectors with frosted plastic tubes containing multi-LED strips that are hardwired withing the housing. So, no replaceable bulbs like florescent tubes. The lights are linkable and have pull-cords, though I have them plugged into a switchable receptacle. Even with the single-digit temperatures we've had a few times this winter, the lights come on instantly, with no flicker.

              At 4000K, the light is closer to "bright white" and not the harsh bluish that I find most locally-available 5500 or 6000K "shop lights" to be. While I'm sure some might find that my shop isn't as bright as they might like, it works well for me, and it doesn't give me a headache. If I need something brighter for some types of work, I have other lamps.

              CWS
              Think it Through Before You Do!

              Comment

              • Jim Frye
                Veteran Member
                • Dec 2002
                • 1051
                • Maumee, OH, USA.
                • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

                #8
                My 12'x22' basement shop is lit with 17 daylight 780 lumen LED screw in lamps. They are arrayed in 4' spacings such that they are 4' apart in three rows the length of the room. The center row is staggered from the outer rows. With this arrangement, there are very little shadows and they are faint at best. Since the ceiling is so low (8'), I can get away with this level of lighting. The entire array cost me less than $78 for the boxes, bases, and lamps. I also have four 300 watt incandescent floods in movable mounts for color balancing finishes. SWMBO says it's brighter than the Vegas strip in there, but I'm getting older and the high brightness helps with degeneration.
                Click image for larger version  Name:	NewShopLEDs.JPG Views:	0 Size:	87.0 KB ID:	838730
                Click image for larger version  Name:	NewShopFloodsLEDs.JPG Views:	0 Size:	88.8 KB ID:	838731
                Jim Frye
                The Nut in the Cellar.
                ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

                Comment

                • capncarl
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 3564
                  • Leesburg Georgia USA
                  • SawStop CTS

                  #9
                  My 840 sf shop consists of 2 rooms with 10’ ceilings, a 20x24 room with a 10’ garage door and 6 ea 2 bulb 4’ fixtures fitted with LED tubes. The anointing room is 20x14 with 7 eq 2 bulb 4’ fixtures fitted with LED tubes. The large room with the garage door suffers the same problem that Carlos has. When I installed the lighting I did not consider that I would ever be using the shop with the garage door down.......duh, I guess I forgot it was hot enough to melt asphalt here and cold enough to not work in a shop with the door open. I didn’t install Fluorescent lighting above the door. Now I always keep the garage door closed and the heat pump/air conditioner running 24/7. The rest of this room has good light but the 8’ under the overhead door frame is lacking. I will install 4 more 4’ fixtures soon. The 20-14 room with 7 fixtures is well lit and only needs point of use lighting on the band saw, belt sander and work bench. All of my 4’ fluorescent fixtures are older T12 water resistant fixtures with bulb covers, as the ballast burned out they were updated to T8 ballast and bulbs. Last year I installed electronic ballasts in the remaining T12 fixtures and installed daylight LED bulbs in all the fixtures. It was a significant lighting improvement, even with the bulb covers installed.
                  Capncarl

                  Comment

                  • LCHIEN
                    Internet Fact Checker
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 20920
                    • Katy, TX, USA.
                    • BT3000 vintage 1999

                    #10
                    Just was curious as to how much the workshop costs to operate going full blast.

                    As an experiment (and because I have 15- minute online kWh usage readings from the light company)
                    Late one night I turned on the shop lights and all the lights, the radio, the air compressor (cycling ), the overhead lights, the task lights on the machines, the air cleaner, the Dust collector at about 1:13 AM and ran it until 1:31 AM
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	power use.jpg Views:	0 Size:	45.5 KB ID:	838824
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                    The 15 minute kWh readings from before and after were.210, .269, .757, .310, .282; the .757 value covering the time from 1:15 to 1:30.
                    So my baseline of running stuff in the house was approx .267 - some indoor and outdoor lights, the central heater circulation fan coming on now and then, fridge cycling on and off, two or three computers, TV (wife watching) plus clocks and various small electronics. So my quarter hour shop consumption added about .490 kWh

                    That means the power drawn was 1.957 kW and in an hour I would have used basically 2 kWh. So at my present rate a shop hour would cost me around 20 cents of electricity. That doesn't include running any power tools But generally that would be more intermittent than continuous so it would not add much.

                    In retrospect the DC was probably about 1500 W (13 A) and the lights 360 W (9 x 40W) and the Air cleaner 100 W. Makes sense.
                    Last edited by LCHIEN; 12-14-2021, 02:29 AM.
                    Loring in Katy, TX USA
                    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                    Comment

                    • Carlos
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 1893
                      • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                      #11
                      I only run my DC when I'm running tools; do you leave yours on all the time when you're in the shop? I was in there from about 10am until 9pm yesterday, and a lot of the time included planning/drawing, moving materials, cleaning, gluing and finishes, etc. I'll fire up the DC for a milling operation then shut it down. Also it doesn't run the sander, there's a central vac for that, which uses a lot less power.

                      Comment

                      • LCHIEN
                        Internet Fact Checker
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 20920
                        • Katy, TX, USA.
                        • BT3000 vintage 1999

                        #12
                        Carlos, I only run it when cutting, or leave it on when doing a rapid series of similar cuts. Very very seldom for 15 minutes at a time.
                        I left it on to get a worst case power usage, really to confirm what I already know... that the DC draws about 13-15 Amps when running.
                        Loring in Katy, TX USA
                        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                        Comment

                        • capncarl
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3564
                          • Leesburg Georgia USA
                          • SawStop CTS

                          #13
                          Not lighting related,, but I leave my dust collector running for a while after I am finished with my task just to collect any any airborne dust that is hanging around. It’s a Clear 1800 drawing around 20 amps and is not recommended to be turned on and off very much.

                          Comment

                          • dbhost
                            Slow and steady
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 9209
                            • League City, Texas
                            • Ryobi BT3100

                            #14
                            If I know I'm late to the party on this thread for some reason my notifications where way way behind.If I know I'm late to the party on this thread for some reason my notifications were way way way behind. I have been looking at going from my T12s to 4ft LEDs. If I have not seen any reasonably priced shop light fixtures that I liked as much as I like my old T12 fixtures. I think I am going to do ballast bypass if list bypass bulbs and new keystones if he stones and just wire them up myself if myself. Many of the new fixtures I have seen are either entirely missing the reflectors Or the reflector and sheet metal are so flimsy that you just look at him and they bend.. Better off recycling what I have.

                            Yeah energy use wise at least with the bulbs I have I know newer T twelves are better but these are 40 W each. That is a total of 560 Watts. LEDs are 17w each, so 238w total. Ambient air cleaner is 300w, so well within the smart switch limits...
                            Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                            Comment

                            • LCHIEN
                              Internet Fact Checker
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 20920
                              • Katy, TX, USA.
                              • BT3000 vintage 1999

                              #15
                              Dave, T12s need reflectors because the light comes out of the bulbs in all directions including straight up; all the light that goes upwards is not 100% reflected so some is lost.

                              OTOH, the 4 ft LEDs vary in construction but most have all the light emitter chips all mounted facing downwards through a white diffuser so very little light goes up. I would say most is radiated in a pattern down and to the sides. So, they don't really need reflectors; they won't do much if you keep your T12 fixtures and populate with LEDs and new wiring but I guess they look pretty if you retain yours.

                              LED tubes are not the same radiation pattern as T12 fluorescent tubes.

                              Viewed from the end Fluorescent tubes radiate equally in all directions. LED tubes have all the chips aimed downwards and radiate in beam pattern. Lumens is a measure of total light output. For F.T. vs LED with the same lumens the LED will radiate stronger straight down; the F.T. relies on reflectors to redirect the light downwards where its more useful. Frosted Diffusers serve to soften the shadows as the LEDs would be point sources; it also helps helps radiate some more to the sides.

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	Light output.JPG Views:	0 Size:	60.8 KB ID:	846670
                              Last edited by LCHIEN; 12-13-2021, 05:51 PM.
                              Loring in Katy, TX USA
                              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                              Comment

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