Question/saw issue...

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  • steveg
    Forum Newbie
    • May 2010
    • 71
    • Norman, OK
    • Craftsman 315.228110 (Ryobi BT3000)

    Question/saw issue...

    Hi all.

    I joined the forum a couple of years ago, when I bought a Craftsman version of the BT3K saw at a garage sale, in excellent shape. I introduced myself then as a guy with an interest in wood, but since my 4 years of wood shop in high school, I have only dreamed of having a working wood shop of my own -- without the money or space to follow through.

    As a result, I have had very little table saw use in 25 years, but I'm involved with a project in my home (building a theater room) which will require some trim carpentry, and decided that it was therefore time to buy a table saw. I did this two years ago (bought my Craftsman saw), found this forum, and began to dig into how to use it. HOWEVER -- my project stalled, and thus have not yet used the saw.

    Fast forward to today, and I'm ready to start the trim carpentry on my theater room, and finish this project. So, I'm back to trying to "crash course" myself on getting up to speed in terms of being able to utilize this saw in (at least for now) a very basic way -- just some rips of 3/4" oak boards, and cutting some small pieces of 1/4" to 3/4" plywood and MDF.

    NOW -- here's the issue (sorry for the long-windedness!) Back around the time I bought the saw, and was reading the forum, I recall this being a somewhat unique saw in terms of squaring up the fence to the blade. Not sure if the prior owner had done it properly (the saw appears to be nearly un-used), I ran a piece of 3/4" oak through the saw, and I found it VERY VERY tough to run the board through and make the rip cut. It almost acted as though the blade was dull or something (it is not -- it's nearly new). I had to push with alot of force to get the board to glide along the fence, once it encountered the blade and the cutting began. It made the cut, but only with considerable effort on my part to push the board through.

    Clearly, there was something not right, at this point, and I assumed the solution was that I would need to do the "blade/fence" alignment. But then, as I said, my project stalled, and I never got it to the trim carpentry stage, so never followed through with solving this issue.

    Now that I am back at it and ready to trim the room, is it fair for me to assume that this is, indeed, just a matter of aligning the blade and fence? If so, I think I recall the instructions for the saw detailing how to do this, but wanted to make sure that there isn't some other issue with the saw that I might need to address. From the information I have provided, is there enough for you to go on, to help me "diagnose" this issue -- and confirm that this is likely just an "alignment" issue?

    Thanks in advance -- for any help, and for your patience with this long-winded table saw "novice!"

    Steve
  • Carpenter96
    Established Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 178
    • Barrie ON Canada
    • BT 3000

    #2
    Binding

    Hi Steve There are usually two reasons that a saw will bind one is that the fence is toed in towards the blade and the other is the operators method of pushing on the stock. If you push on the stock too close to the fence this will cause the wood to move away from the fence and cause problems. You can check your fence alignment by moving the fence a few inches away from the blade and lock it in place, raise the blade up all the way, then carefully measure from the blade to the fence both at front and back of the blade. I have had my BT 3000 for 12 years and have not had to adjust the fence alignment. Regards Bob

    Comment

    • Knottscott
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2004
      • 3815
      • Rochester, NY.
      • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

      #3
      Blade selection and alignment are key factors in the performance of any saw, and is the first thing I'd check into. A good 3/32" thin kerf blade is a good choice for your saw because it's easier to spin than a 1/8" full kerf blade. The stock blade on the original BT's was a thin kerf 36T blade made by Freud in Italy, and was pretty good....I have no idea what blade came with the Cman version, or what blade is on there now. Which blade to get specifically depends on your usage, but many use a good 40T or 50T general purpose combo type blade like a Freud Diablo, Infinity, Irwin Marples series, DeWalt Precision Trim series, or CMT. For thicker ripping you may need to go to fewer teeth with a steep hook angle. Good blades start at just under $30. I would avoid Irwin Marathon, Avanti/Avanti Pro, Workforce, current Ryobi, HF, DeWalt Construction series, Oldham Contractor series, Skil, Vermont American, and other off names blades.

      Others can certainly explain how to align a BT saw.
      Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

      Comment

      • cabinetman
        Gone but not Forgotten RIP
        • Jun 2006
        • 15218
        • So. Florida
        • Delta

        #4
        First...make sure the blade is mounted to cut in the correct direction...the teeth should be pointing into the cut (towards you as you stand at the saw). That sounds like a no-brainer, but it has happened.

        It could be an alignment issue, and that would be easy to check. With the saw unplugged, raise the blade all the way up, and pick one tooth. Lock the fence, and rotate that tooth to the front, and measure from the edge of the tooth to the fence at the table height. Then rotate that tooth to the rear, and take the same measurement. See if there is a deviation.

        But, I'm guessing the problem is likely with the blade. It sounds like it's too fine of a cut. You may need a more aggressive one. What blade do you have exactly...brand, tooth count, tooth design?

        .

        Comment

        • Pappy
          The Full Monte
          • Dec 2002
          • 10453
          • San Marcos, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 (x2)

          #5
          You also don't say if the blade guard ar a splitter are installed. Without a splitter the wood could be trying to close up on the back of the blade. This would not only cause the hard cutting you describe, but put you in danger of a kick back.
          Don, aka Pappy,

          Wise men talk because they have something to say,
          Fools because they have to say something.
          Plato

          Comment

          • steveg
            Forum Newbie
            • May 2010
            • 71
            • Norman, OK
            • Craftsman 315.228110 (Ryobi BT3000)

            #6
            Guys --

            First of all, here's what it says on my blade:

            10" combination blade
            7000 RPM
            36 teeth
            laser cut, carbide tipped
            Made in Italy

            I have been told this is the Freud blade, that is the typical "stock" blade on the BTs.

            So, reading all that is written, and assuming the blade is NOT the issue (though I will wait to see if you all agree on that), seems like I do need to check the fence/blade alignment.

            Yes, cabinetman, the blade is installed correctly (teeth facing front)...and you and Knottscott both asked about blade type (which I've provided now, hopefully giving you the info you were asking about).

            Pappy -- yes, blade guard is installed. I'm not familiar with a "splitter" -- but I don't think this is the issue, as, if I recall correctly, the "hard to push through the blade" issue was occurring BEFORE there was enough of the wood past the blade to allow it to "close back up" and thus be the cause of the issue...

            Carpenter96 -- I'll keep in mind what you said about pushing on the stock too close to the fence. Thanks much for that little tip!


            Thoughts (given the blade info?)

            Steve

            Comment

            • cabinetman
              Gone but not Forgotten RIP
              • Jun 2006
              • 15218
              • So. Florida
              • Delta

              #7
              Originally posted by steveg
              Guys --

              First of all, here's what it says on my blade:

              10" combination blade
              7000 RPM
              36 teeth
              laser cut, carbide tipped
              Made in Italy

              I have been told this is the Freud blade, that is the typical "stock" blade on the BTs.

              So, reading all that is written, and assuming the blade is NOT the issue (though I will wait to see if you all agree on that), seems like I do need to check the fence/blade alignment.

              Yes, cabinetman, the blade is installed correctly (teeth facing front)...and you and Knottscott both asked about blade type (which I've provided now, hopefully giving you the info you were asking about).

              Pappy -- yes, blade guard is installed. I'm not familiar with a "splitter" -- but I don't think this is the issue, as, if I recall correctly, the "hard to push through the blade" issue was occurring BEFORE there was enough of the wood past the blade to allow it to "close back up" and thus be the cause of the issue...

              Carpenter96 -- I'll keep in mind what you said about pushing on the stock too close to the fence. Thanks much for that little tip!


              Thoughts (given the blade info?)

              Steve
              Before you start the cut, did you plug the saw in and turn it on? Sorry, I just had to ask.

              Did the blade to fence measure the same front and back? Are there any restrictive elements on the table or the fence that would inhibit the wood to be moving freely?

              .

              Comment

              • steveg
                Forum Newbie
                • May 2010
                • 71
                • Norman, OK
                • Craftsman 315.228110 (Ryobi BT3000)

                #8
                cabinetman...

                I'll doublecheck the saw being plugged in/turned on, when I try to make a cut!

                I have not measured the "blade to fence" yet. Since this seems like one likely culprit of my issue, I will do so, and hope to find that this is the issue -- as this would be an easy thing to adjust, and thus solve the problem.

                No, there was nothing "restrictive" on the table (aside from the blade guard/riving knife/anti-kickback stuff) on the table, and nothing restrictive on the fence.

                I'll keep my fingers crossed that when I take the two blade-to-fence measurements, that I find this to be the problem...

                Steve

                Comment

                • LCHIEN
                  Internet Fact Checker
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 20914
                  • Katy, TX, USA.
                  • BT3000 vintage 1999

                  #9
                  my 2 cents is that blade binds are typically caused by one of three things:
                  1. Back of fence toed in towards the blade. Alignment is the answer and BT way of alignment is to loosen the two screws on top of the rip fence with the front handle pushed down slightly as as to lock up the front rail grabbers but not lock up the rear rail grabber (some feel for rip fence operation is necessary). Align then tighten the screws. The holes have enough play to make the alignment.
                  2. Wood has got some strange stresses in it that cause it to close up on the blade and or riving knife/splitter. Solution is another piece of wood.
                  3. Blade problem - is really dull and won't cut, this is pretty rare to be that bad, unless you put it in backwards or crooked, or loose of something equally weird.
                  4. Assuming you're doing a relatively thin rip (you said trim molding), underpowereing due to AC supply issues should not be a problem.
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment

                  • Knottscott
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 3815
                    • Rochester, NY.
                    • 2008 Shop Fox W1677

                    #10
                    Assuming the blade isn't dull, it's likely alignment.

                    The blade could also just be dirty.....very easy and dirt cheap to clean it. Spray on a household cleaner like 409, Totally Awesome, Fantastic, etc....hit the teeth with a brass or nylon bristle brush, rinse, wipe....3-4 minutes from start to finish. It's a good habit to clean the blade regularly...a dirty blade behaves like a dull blade, and actually causes dulling via excess heat.

                    Be sure your saw isn't plugged into a long thin extension cord...it'll rob amperage.
                    Last edited by Knottscott; 08-17-2012, 08:23 AM.
                    Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.

                    Comment

                    • cabinetman
                      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 15218
                      • So. Florida
                      • Delta

                      #11
                      Another thought. The wood may be damp. Like it was mentioned an inappropriate extension cord could be problematic. It may be undersized, or too long. Check to see if it gets warm.

                      Another thing you might try is run the blade higher...well above the stock. Try it high. At a high setting the cutting angle provides a shorter contact between the blade and the stock. It will run cooler.

                      .

                      Comment

                      • cwsmith
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2005
                        • 2737
                        • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                        • BT3100-1

                        #12
                        Very easy way to check that the fence is parallel to the blade is to simply take a piece of stock (that has parallel edges) or preferably a measuring stick (I use a 2" wide aluminum yard stick from HF), and lay it next to the blade, making sure it touches (but not forced) the blade front and back. If you use a yard stick, you can position this in the gullet area of the blade, rather than be concerned about the set of the teeth.

                        Then move the fence very close to the yard stick (but not touching...maybe about an 1/8 or less of space). The yard stick should be absolutely parallel.

                        Now lock the fence down and pay attention to any movement of the fence as you do so. On my original factory-set, the fence moved a good 1/8-inch toward the blade at the back which was my particular problem.

                        Adjust as may be necessary.

                        This has proved to be the best method for me, in checking and maintaining proper fence alignment. Once adjusted in this manner, my fence has maintained it's proper position for well over a year now.

                        My further feelings regarding your problem is in agreement with all of the posts read thus far. I'm pretty much a "junior" too, with only having my table saw experience span the last few years... and only with the BT, which I really love.

                        Keep that blade clean!

                        Also, don't assume that it is little used and properly sharp. It just may have been cleaned and dressed up by the previous owner. Have you tried to use it on a simple cross cut and has that been easy? That of course takes any fence alignment issues out of the question.

                        Lastly, I keep my blade height adjusted so that the bottom of the gullet is at the top edge of whatever stock that I'm cutting... in other words, the blade is set so that only one tooth fully extends above the stock. (That is what I was taught, so I hope that is correct procedure... it works for me, but comments are certainly welcome.)

                        At no time should you ever have to really force the stock through a cut. Realize of course that you can't rush the blade though, it needs to be able to do it's work. But really having to force the stock is dangerous and I'm glad you have the knowledge to ask about it.

                        Good luck,

                        CWS
                        Last edited by cwsmith; 08-17-2012, 09:41 AM.
                        Think it Through Before You Do!

                        Comment

                        • pelligrini
                          Veteran Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4217
                          • Fort Worth, TX
                          • Craftsman 21829

                          #13
                          Another thing that can contribute is a dirty top and fence. I'll wax mine regularly. A quick application of paste wax makes things slide with less effort. It also lessens the amount of the gray marks I get on my material from the raw aluminum.

                          If you've got a lot of ripping to do, you might consider getting a dedicated rip blade. The 36T OEM blade should handle 3/4 material fairly easily though, if clean and sharp. Picking up a thin kerf rip blade will also let you compare a newly sharpened blade to the one you have.
                          Erik

                          Comment

                          • jdon
                            Established Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 401
                            • Snoqualmie, Wash.
                            • BT3100

                            #14
                            Ditto on a dedicated rip blade- I've been happy with my Freud thin kerf.

                            Also, there could be a problem with blade-fence parallelism in the vertical plane, which might cause binding. Secure clamping of the fence requires little force on the handle; the saw's previous owner might have bent "clamper A" by agressive clamping, resulting in a non-vertical fence.

                            Do a search using "fence" and "vertical" for a thread from a month ago, where this site's gurus helped me out

                            Comment

                            • steveg
                              Forum Newbie
                              • May 2010
                              • 71
                              • Norman, OK
                              • Craftsman 315.228110 (Ryobi BT3000)

                              #15
                              Hey all --

                              Some great info here...I need to go through each post and make sure I consider each point raised by each poster.

                              As an update, I measured the blade/fence distance today using the "edge of the tooth" method described by cabinetman, I think it was -- measure from edge of tooth to fence, then rotate that tooth to the front and measure again. I could see no difference in the measurements. I used a tape measure with only 16ths of an inch markings on it, but I would estimate that the measurements were the same at least to the 100th of an inch...could the blade being out of alignment by less than a 100th of an inch or so still be causing these issues? No, the saw was not attached to a long thin extension, I think it was plugged in directly.

                              I will re-do the cuts with a different piece of wood; I'll do a rip, and a crosscut, and see what I find out, and report back...

                              Steve

                              Comment

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