Question/saw issue...

[cabinetman]

At this stage, since nothing else has worked...I'm bettin' on the blade.

.

[cwsmith]

In my respectful opinion, this whole thing with alignment and the splitter issues can get complicated beyond reason.

My simplification is to use an aluminimum straight edge (aluminum so you don't damage the blade). With that (mine is 2" wide), you can quickly check to see that the fence and blade are in fact parallel, as I stated earlier.

You can also quickly check the splitter... simply slide the straight edge from front to back (like you would feed the stock) along against first one side of the blade and then the other.... it should not snag on the splitter. Placed against the side of the blade, the splitter or riving knife should be directly behind the blade.

But, the description given by Steve G (a couple times, IIRC) is that he's having trouble even feeding INTO the blade, which would certainly be before it gets to the splitter.

Likewise, he's perceiving some "lifting" forces. I don't understand that, unless the blade is spinning backwards; but, perhaps I'm not understanding that correctly, SO, is it seemingly "lifting" on contact with the blade, or after it's been fed to a point where the lifting is on the back of the blade?

I do think (and have thought all along) that it is an extremely dull blade issue: but hey, I've been wrong more than a few times. You can buy a pretty decent Freud Diablo 40-tooth at your local Home Depot for about $40. Less teeth, less money, but I find a 40-tooth to be a pretty decent combination, unless you are running 2-by stock and it is damp.

CWS

[Cochese]

I think at this point the best way for the people here to see what the problem is is to take video.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[steveg]

cwsmith -- you are exactly right in that I have trouble feeding into the blade, before it ever gets to the splitter. SO, while my splitter DOES need to be aligned, there are issues before that. And YES, the "lifting" forces are occurring NOT initially (as it would if the blade was installed backward), but as the wood has been fed through far enough to where the back of the blade/rear teeth are coming in contact with the wood.

I have also decided, based on all the help here and based on having tried a few other fixes (alignment checks, etc.) that it is a very dull blade issue. I would NOT have thought so, just looking at the teeth; on a chain saw, for instance, you can tell easily when your teeth are dull. When it starts not cutting well, and you are getting "burning" of the wood -- taking a look at the teeth will reveal very quickly that they are dull/rounded in appearance. I did NOT see ANYTHING like that on this blade...

BUT, nonetheless, I have a Freud Fusion 40T blade on the way...HOPEFULLY this solves my issues, and then I can align my splitter and get this project rolling!

Cochese -- if I continue to have the same problem after installing the new blade, I WILL take/post a video...because I will be stumped, at that point.

Steve

[steveg]

Also -- I'll try the aluminum straight-edge thing too, once I get the new blade installed...sounds like an easy way to check alignment.

Steve

[cabinetman]

Also -- I'll try the aluminum straight-edge thing too, once I get the new blade installed...sounds like an easy way to check alignment.

Steve

If you use that method, make sure the edge against the blade touches the front and rear at the same part of the teeth (or between the teeth against the body of the blade). Take two measurements after the first. Rotate the blade 180 and measure again...the same way. If against the body of the blade and it's a hollow ground, you may see a gap towards the center to the straightedge.

If you do the tooth to the fence method, assuming the first tooth you pick you got from 12 o'clock, take a second measure from one from 6 o'clock.

NOTE: the saw should be unplugged, and the blade all the way up.

.

[pelligrini]

OK -- I just checked...OUCH. $150...that's as much as I paid for my saw! Looks like I might be doing some adjusting of what I have...

Yea, they aren't cheap, but they are really nice. I would say that my shark is the best tool accessory I have bought, ever. The latest versions that are narrower, easier to install and remove, and especially the front roller are very much worth it. Having the top side dust collection is good too, especially when I started using zero clearance throat plates.

[steveg]

cabinetman -- gotcha. Appreciate the details on the method.

pelligrini -- best tool accessory? Wow...maybe I shouldn't dismiss it so quickly...

Lemme see what I can do with the riving knife issue, but I will have to keep this in mind -- because if my saw usage extends beyond this one particular project, it sounds like this might be worth considering...

Steve

[steveg]

Would it be entirely stupid to remove this contraption completely? Clearly, if you haven't used a saw before, then those safety features are valuable and necessary. Likewise, if you are younger, and thus did not grow up back in the days when saws simply didn't have such devices (which obviously required users to learn how to operate a saw safely IN THE ABSENCE OF such devices), then, again, it might be unwise to remove them. However, in my case, during my years of wood shop in high school, our table saws did not have blade guards and anti-kickback protection on them...we simply learned to be safe, to NEVER stand behind the blade (in the event of kickback), to NEVER push a board through the saw without a push-stick, etc. etc. Bottom line is, after all those years of getting used to using table saws without all of these "safety devices" on them, I have to admit that they simply seem, for me, like more trouble than they are worth...

Steve

[toolguy1000]

steveg........not good idea to remove safety devices when you're encountering performance issues. could lead to a thread on the dangers of kickback or contact with exposed blades. just my $.02.

[pelligrini]

I didn't use my OEM guard on my saw much at all either, but the shark knife and guard are always on now.

Have you seen the BT DVD videos that Ryobi made?
Check this thread, they are available on Youtube:

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=37679

[jking]

Is the issue still getting the riving knife aligned with the blade? There are shims provided with the saw that allows for adjustment. I wouldn't recommend removing the riving knife when the cut doesn't require it. Rabbetts & dados are two where the stock riving knife has to come off to make the cut. Normal through cuts, however, the riving knife helps prevent kickback. If you rip a board & it tries to close up around the blade, you'll be glad you left the riving knife on.

My high school shop experience was similar to your's. The table saw had no blade guards or splitter because our shop teachers decided they caused more problems than they solved. I've never had any major issues with the stock guard. I've never found it to be a hassle to deal with.

[cwsmith]

Steve,

I would NOT entertain removing the guard and splitter for problematic reason. Besides, at this point, it is much too premature to presume you have anything of a problem beyond the blade issue. Once you have a new blade, I'm betting your problem will either go away entirely, or at least be greatly minimized.

At that point, you may find alignment and/or splitter challenges, in which case you'll have to address those, but I'm sure they will be fairly simple matters of adjustment (my experience with my BT3 anyway). BUT, I would never consider resolving any such challenges by removing safety guards.

(There's a saying, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots; but there are NO old, bold pilots!" At my 68 years of age, I've found that the same theme applies to motorcycle riders and wood workers... the day you become comfortable enough to become inattentive, is the day you are going to get hurt.)

Having those "guards" in place is for those days when you are not as attentive as you should always be.

Keep safe,

CWS

[steveg]

Some good points, guys.

I wasn't mentioning removing the blade guard/splitter/anti-kickback assembly so much for the "solving my cutting problem" issue (as I do think/hope the new blade is going to do that), but more due to the fact that it seems "cumbersome," and not easy to work with. The anti-kickback teeth dig into and scratch the saw every time I try to raise the blade guard; when trying to measure the blade tooth-to-fence distance to set up a particular width cut, the blade guard is in the way; it doesn't want to stand upright, so I have to hold it up with one hand, and try to measure/set my fence with the other hand...that type of stuff. It just seems cumbersome to deal with.

But, I'll get the new blade installed, try to get my riving knife lined up properly, and see how it goes.

Steve

[steveg]

pelligrini -- good to hear that you didn't really like the OEM guard, either, but that you love the shark guard. If you went from leaving off the OEM guard, to putting the shark guard on and never taking it off...hmm...tells me alot.

Steve