Planning to buy bandsaw grizzly vs harbor freight

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  • mpc
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 981
    • Cypress, CA, USA.
    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

    #16
    Much of it boils down to overall stiffness of the "chassis." Both cast iron "Delta" style saws and Euro frame saws can be good or bad. With the cast iron versions the joint itself can be a trouble spot depending on how it is built and the way the fasteners clamp the pieces together. Also, cast iron saws, if they are ever overloaded, dropped, or whatever and develop cracks in the main central column area are almost impossible to repair. The Euro frame saws however can have "doubler" panels welded (or even bolted/rivited) across cracks... similar to how aircraft skin cracks are repaired.

    As Loring noted, with the Euro frame style, resaw capacity is forever fixed; with the cast iron versions a riser kit can increase the resaw capacity.

    There are a LOT of other considerations that have more import on how well the saw functions than the frame style, in my opinion. Guides for example: blocks versus bearings, which is better? Bearings have less friction but blocks can be positioned closer to the actual workpiece: The attachment shows a diagram I created recently as part of a bandsaw write-up I'm making for a couple friends of mine just starting out in woodworking.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	Bearings_versus_Blocks_Blade_Supports.jpg Views:	0 Size:	56.3 KB ID:	844272
    Bearings contact the sides of the blade at 1/2 their diameter while blocks are limited by the thickness of their mounting structure. Both styles have years of experience on different brands and both work well when properly adjusted. Laguna uses ceramic blocks on their well-respected bandsaws. Other brands - Agazzani and SCM - use bearings mounted sideways to grip the blade; the adjustment mechanisms are fine threaded shafts you turn by hand - similar to the Ryobi microadjuster for the BT's rip fence. They are really easy to use, not cheap, but really don't work well with the smallest bandsaw blades.

    Size and stiffness of the table matter. Part of the table stiffness is how rigid the trunnion assembly is. When you examine bandsaw tables, you will see some have the blade changing slot coming out the front of the table, others have it exiting the right side. Why the difference? On tables with the forward slot, the trunnion has to support the table from behind the blade only - it cannot extend to the front half of the table or else you would not be able to change the blade. The Rikon saws are this way. On tables with the lateral slot, the trunnion can be a wider "U" shape supporting both the front and rear of the table... which sounds "better" but, again, the actual design and implementation can make the forward slot designs plenty rigid. The wide "U" trunnions are still bolted to the top of the lower wheelhouse which is a rather narrow footprint; often that area flexes which negates the advantages of the wide "U" platform. Trunnions for forward facing slots also bolt to the lower wheelhouse but generally attach to the side of it as well, not just the top. Since the lower wheelhouse sheet metal is part of the saw structure, rather than being a bolted-on piece as on the cast iron saws, this area tends to be quite rigid. Blade slots coming forward make it easier to change the blade typically; lateral slots require you to twist the blade and finagle it around the trunnion, the hand knobs on the trunnion's forward saddle (the knob that locks the table tilt angle in the trunnion), etc. Forward slots though may force you to finagle the blade around the fence mounting bar. In some cases, especially on smaller or lower price saws, the fence mounting bar must be removed to change blades. Yuck.

    Another consideration is how accessible are the lower guides? Some older model saws actually required removing the table to adjust the lower guide bearings - not something you want to do every time you change the blade! Others had access through the round opening the blade passes through in the table - you got to play "dentist" on your saw. More recent designs make this area reasonably accessible from below though none make it trivially easy. The recent Rikon saws, with the "tool free" blade changes, have ~1 inch knobs on the bearings and those ratcheting levers (same type as you find on lathe tool rests and banjos) so you don't have to finagle fingers + tools into that cramped area. For whatever reason though, once you tighten the knobs gently, they seem to require a lot more oomph to loosen on the next blade change as Capncarl noted. A bit of PVC pipe, with notches cut into the end, could make a cheap extension handle.

    From the last two paragraphs, you can tell a big difference in various bandsaws is how easy/difficult it is to change blades. Table saws suffer similar issues: blade guards and insert plates to change blades... Ornery designs for table saws and bandsaws make you change blades less often than you should. Other detail differences to consider: how do you adjust the table to be square to the blade - when viewed from the side of the bandsaw. You want the blade perfectly perpendicular to the table. Some bandsaws make you remove the table and add/remove shims and test again, others (including Rikon) have small setscrews in the trunnion mount that make this adjustment quick and easy. The other critical adjustment is the upper guide support column: does it move perfectly vertically with the blade? If not, every time you adjust the upper guide assembly (to match the workpiece height) there will be a small lateral shift in the guides... you'll have to re-adjust the guide blocks or guide bearings. VERY annoying. Or you end up getting into the bad habit of adjusting them further away from the blade than you should so they'll "always clear no matter the height of the guide post." On the Euro frame saws, the rack-and-pinion gear assembly that moves the column up/down can usually be shimmed or adjusted via setscrews; on many cast iron saws the column moves inside part of the cast iron chassis and thus may not be adjustable at all... if the factory didn't machine that hole properly you're stuck.

    Dust collection: most bandsaws today put a dust port at the bottom of the lower wheelhouse. But bandsaws really need dust collection just below the table to get the fine stuff before it has a chance to gum-up the thrust bearings (all saws) and guide bearings on saws using guide bearings rather than guide blocks. This is one area where Rikon dropped the ball on their 14 inch bandsaws; I ended up adding a "Y" to my dust hose with a 2 1/2 inch branch going to a flex hose that wedges under the table. Made a big difference. The 4 inch port of the "Y" extracts from the lower wheelhouse through a blast gate which is about 80% closed to force most of the vacuuming to go to the 2 1/2 hose instead.

    Overall, I'm quite happy with my Rikon 10-325 that I've upgraded with the 10-326 style tool-free guide bearing set. My 10-325 was one of the early models, built long before Rikon re-designed the guide assemblies. Rikon sells an upgrade kit which I bought. I went through the calibration process for the wheel axles - to get the wheels coplanar - when I first got the bandsaw. With that done, I have no "drift" to deal with when making most rip cuts so I rarely use the resaw post that attaches to the stock rip fence. I went back and did the same adjustments to my older Craftsman 10 inch model which is also a Euro frame style (it looks similar to Rikon's 10-305) and the cut quality improved.

    mpc
    Last edited by mpc; 05-26-2021, 03:20 PM.

    Comment

    • Wedic1
      Forum Newbie
      • May 2021
      • 5
      • USA
      • Bosch table saw GTS1031

      #17
      Originally posted by Brian G
      You can spend a pile of money trying to make the HF 14" better, and it still won't be a Grizzly G0555something out of the box. Go with the Grizzly and don't regret it.

      I got lucky and found an open box Carter guide set for 20% off at my local Rockler. I put that on my G0555 and it made a big difference.

      Agree with Grizzly G0555

      It's always best and better for the long run, Easily blade adjustment, and will work on different blade speed.

      Comment

      • dbhost
        Slow and steady
        • Apr 2008
        • 9229
        • League City, Texas
        • Ryobi BT3100

        #18
        I have the HF 14" with the riser block, a set of Cool Blocks and a Craftsman fence. It really is a nice saw. Having said that, IF you have time, and the used market near you will support it, I would try to grab a similar used Delta / Rockwell 14". If you insist on buying a new Chinese saw, I would probably go with the Grizzly. Honestly Harbor Freight stuff has gone up considerably in price since I purchased, whereas Grizzly hasn't so much, more or less erasing the budget advantage.

        Mind you, I have about $500.00 into my HF 14", but I purchased it new probably 12 to 14 years ago. And I upgraded it slowly over time. Cobra coil tension spring, G0555 tension release conversion, cool blocks, poly tires, tire brush, fence etc... a lot of little stuff that even the G0555 doesn't have... Probably wouldn't be able to match it these days for under $1K.

        I use the saw a lot to resaw treefall lumber (Large cutoff limbs, and interesting stuff I cull from a firewood pile) and rough in turning blanks. Some curved cuts, but those are mostly done with a jig saw instead...
        Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

        Comment

        • dwk
          Forum Newbie
          • Feb 2006
          • 31
          • Denver, CO, USA.

          #19
          Are bandsaw prices rising out of line with other tools, or is it this bad all over? Browsing some older threads around the web folks are referencing getting the Rikon 14" and even Laguna 14" for $1000, and this was just in 2018. These guys are now $1500-$1600. It seems that if you want to stay under $1k it's either a) used b) Harbor Freight + $3-500 in upgrades and additional work c) grizzly G0555 (although the riser block will push you over $1k).

          Mulling over whether something like the little 10" Wen is 'good enough' to stopgap for a year or two to see whether the market settles at all. Moving down to small town NM means the used tool market is generally not an option.

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20978
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #20
            If I were in the market for a bandsaw today (I haven't looked for 15 years)

            probably be down to GO555 vs Rikon 10-324 14" with maybe a quick look to see if I could swing a 17" saw.

            https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...-bandsaw/g0555
            Click image for larger version  Name:	GO-555 bandsaw.JPG Views:	0 Size:	41.6 KB ID:	846491

            https://www.rockler.com/rikon-10-324...s-blade-guides $1199

            Click image for larger version  Name:	Rikon 10-324.JPG Views:	0 Size:	14.5 KB ID:	846492
            https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...unnion/g0513x2

            Click image for larger version  Name:	GO-513 bandsaw.JPG Views:	0 Size:	51.4 KB ID:	846493

            Sigh.... I feel like I am going to be using my 12" Delta for a long time.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • dbhost
              Slow and steady
              • Apr 2008
              • 9229
              • League City, Texas
              • Ryobi BT3100

              #21
              Just something to consider.

              Everyones individual priorities will differ. For me I value bang for the buck, and I am will, and perhaps freakishly enjoy putting the fine tuning as it were, at least initially, to personalize my various items. I am also into 4x4s. I would NEVER even if I won the powerball, own a Range Rover for example, but would MUCH rather get my hands on an old International Harvester Scout 2 and resto mod the snot out of the thing and end up with MY ideal 4x4, not theirs...

              I value personalization. AND function. I 100% blame my Dad, and my uncles. It was how I was raised...

              When I bought my HF 32208 14" 4 speed 1HP woodworking bandsaw (current model is 3/4 HP), the saw, PLUS the riser block cost me $389.00 after the 20% off coupon for the saw in store. Currently the saw itself is $429.99, figure subtract $60.00 IF you can get a 20% off coupon to apply. The riser block kit is no longer available from Harbor Freight, the Grizzly riser kit fits, but needs modification for the locator pins to end up in the right holes... I.E. marking and drilling new holes.

              After all of my modifications, I have a total of $550.00 into the saw, minus the blades which I consider as expendibles. If I subtract maintenance / upgrade items that would have been added cost on the Grizzly as well, I am $470.00 into my saw. Of course every penny EXCEPT the urethane tires was spent prior to 2010 so prices have gone up a good bit. I would expect at current pricing to be in about $700.00

              In case you have not seen my posts on the subject, a reminder of the upgrades I performed or am performing to my saw, and mind you I do not have a Grizzly by any means, but I am feature for feature there with say a G0555, including some features they lack.

              So it is.
              Central Machinery 32208 14: 1HP 4 speed woodcutting band saw.
              Central Machinery riser block kit for 32208.
              Grizzly GO555 tension release system. I have a write up here somewhere on what I used, how I did it.
              Carter Cobra Coil tension coil. This would be an upgrade to the Grizzly as well.
              Carter wheel brush, would be an upgrade to the Grizzly as well.
              Accura roller bearing blade guides.
              Craftsman Universal band saw fence. I honestly do not like this fence much. I intend on upgrading at some point to a Grizzly resaw fence. This would be an upgrade to the Grizzly as well, the standard fence is the standard fence on the G0555.
              Safety paddle switch. This is a MINIMUM upgrade for the HF as far as I am concerned. I DESPISE the OE switch location as it is in my opinion in a dangerous location at least for me. I don't mention much on the woodworking forums, but I have some serious back issues, I would be prone to grabbing the saw table to support myself after stooping like that. BAD idea with a moving blade...
              Urethane tires. This would be an upgrade to the Grizzly as well. My HF tires were getting, sorry for the pun, but tired. I.E. cracking and generally speaking needing to be replaced.
              Harbor Freight mobile base. Again this would be an upgrade to the Grizzly as well.

              Current SALE pricing on the G0555 is $695.00 + $149.00 shipping.

              Taking on some of these modifications is physically risky to the saw itself. Notably drilling for the quick tension release. There are other options though, notably quick tension winders.

              The current Central Machinery saw I believe is 3/4 HP where the G0555 is 1 HP, take that into consideration.

              IF I had to do it again, and could source up a USED 32208 (green) Central Machinery saw, AND riser block kit, I would do my mods all over again. However I am not sure I would buy the new less powerful model. If I am wrong about the HP rating though, AND can source up a riser block kit, I would still go HF, but I am willing to drill and tap into cast iron after LOTS of VERY careful measurements. But I like to tinker and modify.

              Is my saw a Grizzly complete with Grizzly resale value? Not hardly. Does it do everything I want a bandsaw to do and did it give me joy in the act of modifying it? Absolutely. Does it function as well as the Grizzly? Pretty sure it does, excluding the fence that I discussed above.

              A few interesting notes. #1. The new gray model Central Machinery bandsaw has moved the dust port to the lower left of the bottom blade guard, where it can do the most good. This is a huge plus. And #2. I am not certain of the new models HP rating. And it appears Harbor Freight has changed their documentation and gotten vague on it. Check with them on it before purchase if that is a concern of yours.

              IF you were willing ot go with only a couple of upgrades, and play it safe and low dollar, with the HF bandsaw I would...

              #1. Buy with a coupon, and preferrably on sale.
              #2. Realize the new model has the pins in a different orientation than the old one so a Grizzly riser block kit MUST be drilled for locator pins. But no problem there if you have any level of confidence in measuring marking and drilling.
              #3. Forget the roller guides, just toss on some Cool Blocks and call it good. You get blade support closer to the workpiece anyway.
              #4. Throw on a wheel brush, they are cheap and really help keep the dust in the lower blade guard where that dust port can pick it up.
              #5. If you are comfortable with the switch location, leave it, For ME I HAD to move mine. It gave me the heebie jeebies.
              #6. There are LOTS of tutorials only about making a bandsaw fence. I would DIY my own, the factory fences are either expensive, or just lousy... No middle ground there for decent and lower cost...
              #7. Instead of a quick release tension adjuster, throw on a BigHorn tension crank and just zip tension on and off.


              I FOUND MY OLD WRITEUP! The post I made in 2009 on my modifications, with most importantly part numbers is https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...32208-band-saw

              It should be noted, back then I didn't expect the OE motor to last, so I had a Dayton 1.5HP 1720 rpm motor at the ready to swap in. At this point, I can't imagine this motor dying. It just keeps chugging along... I have no idea how much resawing it has done without much noticeable bogging, but I know it has been smack on reliable.
              Last edited by dbhost; 12-02-2021, 11:04 AM.
              Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

              Comment


              • capncarl
                capncarl commented
                Editing a comment
                DB, do you see and old international Scouts around? There is a reason for them not being here any longer. I believe that when they were made the body metal was under coated with a salt paste. I remember seeing them in the late 60s with fenders and doors rusting out on 4 year old trucks….. and this is in South Georgia where the only salt the truck would see is some that missed the French fries you were eating! I purchased a Scout II for my son to fix up for his fist vehicle and had to spend more time working on rust problems, even the frame was rusting through! Strangely though the early year Broncos were not as bad about rust.
            • capncarl
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2007
              • 3569
              • Leesburg Georgia USA
              • SawStop CTS

              #22
              This thread started in late May, do you have a saw yet?
              One feature I haven heard mentioned that I wish was available for my Rikon is a brake. I thought, who would need that, now I know it was me! A lot of time I need to stop the saw to get the blade unstuck, where it will not back out of the slot. ( certain types and dryness of logs have this problem ) It takes forever to coast down. Then when I shut off the saw to clean off the table I would like to stop the blade. The brake is not a real safety item, it just adds som friction to the lower wheel and slows it to a stop in a couple of revolutions.

              Comment


              • mpc
                mpc commented
                Editing a comment
                Rikon's "DVR motor" upgrade package, for their 14 inch bandsaws, adds an option for an electronic blade brake. It works well, stopping the lower wheel about 4-5 seconds after you hit the OFF button. The issue is the electronic controller module itself: the ON/OFF button is a small button now... no option to have an easy-to-smack paddle style OFF switch. The conversion makes the Rikon have the equivalent of a magnetic switch (it won't remain "ON" after a power failure like the BT3's power switch)... and the speed control range is phenomenal. It makes the Rikon bandsaws quite suitable for plastic and metal cutting too with the appropriate blades. I really like it on my early model 10-325 bandsaw. If anyone is considering the Rikon 10-326 bandsaw, I would strongly suggest considering the 10-326DVR variant. That DVR motor and controller is basically the same package found on the various NOVA branded tools.

                mpc
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