Advice on table saw choice

[Knottscott]

...
Lets face it, if you're going to only be making a few pieces of furniture a year as a hobby the Hybrid saws are more than sufficient for your needs. Putting Cabinet saws in a part-time shop is probably an indication your hobby is collecting tools, not making sawdust.

I'd modify that statement a bit..."Putting Cabinet saws in a part-time shop is probably an indication that your hobby includes a passion for tools as well as making sawdust..." True in my case...the tools are a big part of the fun for me, but they're not trophies for display only.

[Charlie]

Charlie,

I like your dust control modification of your Delta contractors saw. The type of design you came up with is built into the BT3100.

Jim

The link you gave me didn't show me the Ryobi design, so I looked up a parts schematic. I don't see how you figure that my design is like it. What I have on my saw is purely my design, no one elses.

[tkarlmann]

My comment addressed possible reasons why so many BT Central members are becoming dark siders, and included no comments about the capabilities, or lack thereof, of the BT. Not everyone knows about the Craftsman version, or realizes it's the same saw, some won't buy anything from Sears, and some may not be willing to spend the money.

Regardless of the potential accuracy of the BT, it's capabilities, or your apparent strong feelings for this machine, it's still too light, too small, too loud, too finnicky, and too unorthodox for my liking (as were your comments) ...it's not for everyone.

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

[Charlie]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

Actually the saw has changed, it's no longer in production. So if a motor goes out it will cost $250 plus shipping, and your at the mercy of Ryobi on that part. In the later years that was about the price for the whole saw. If the motor should ever go out on a Contractor's saw, there are several different electric motor companies in this country that make a motor that will fit, and I would feel better about giveing them my bussiness, plus they are probably alot better motor then what the BT has for the same price. I'll also say that Contractor table saws I think recently have gotten a really unfair bad rap, many were used in cabinet shops. In some cases the birth and advertiseing hype of the Hybrid table saw that seems to have no set standards has takein over some to the uninformed consumer because they look like a Cabinet table saw, in other words when shopping for a Hybrid table saw you need to do your homework. I also feel that now is not the time to be suporting companies that send jobs overseas, and is a good time right now to be buying used American made equipment. What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. Theirs nothing wrong with haveing pride in the tools you have, and I respect that, but lets not get carried away. I've been a woodworker for about 28 years, and what works for me is the made in the USA Contractor's table saw, a Cabinet table saw would be nice, but in the last few years woodworking has gotten to be even less profitable, crafts shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing, so it makes no sense for me to spend the extra money to upgrade, plus I'm currently unemployed, I couldn't afford the extra cost of the Cabinet table saw, and to have a new electrical service run to my shop. If the Ryobi table saw or any other is what works for you thats all that should matter. Thats just my opinion and reasons, like you have yours. I started out with a Skil table saw, and then a Delta Motorized table saw before I bought what I have now. They all worked and made the cut. It's just more pleasurable, and a time saver to use what I have now. I guess it depends on how serious you want to get into woodworking.

[Brian G]

My tools are better than anybody else's tools, so there!

[Russianwolf]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

I admit, I've been away for a while, Spending more time on turning sites (as I have a Grizzly lathe), but I have to agree the attitudes have changed and I don't like it. This used to be the place where tool snobbery was something we chided the other sites while we looked for the best bang for the buck.

[Russianwolf]

Actually the saw has changed, it's no longer in production.

not true. The saw is still in production under the Sears Craftsman label. Replacement parts are still very much available. Originally the Ryobi saw was $1000 and came down to $300, now the craftsman version is about $450 last I checked.

I'll also say that Contractor table saws I think recently have gotten a really unfair bad rap, many were used in cabinet shops. In some cases the birth and advertiseing hype of the Hybrid table saw that seems to have no set standards has takein over some to the uninformed consumer because they look like a Cabinet table saw, in other words when shopping for a Hybrid table saw you need to do your homework.

This is also the downfall of the Ryobi saw IMO. HD had an exclusive deal to sell Ryobi products but I don't think I even saw a BT3xxx set up properly in the stores. Looks and feel of the display scared off many people not for the quality of the saw, but for the poor assembly/knowledge of the staff at HD.

I also feel that now is not the time to be suporting companies that send jobs overseas, and is a good time right now to be buying used American made equipment.

buying used equipment of any sort does not support US jobs. You'd need to buy new products made in the USA. Good luck finding ANY saw that fits that bill any more.

What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

you consider it an outlandish claim when you've already admitted that you've never used the product in question. So who is being outlandish? I've got 6 years experience with this saw, and have had used other saws so can make an honest comparison.

I was going to say more, but why bother.

[Charlie]

not true. The saw is still in production under the Sears Craftsman label. Replacement parts are still very much available. Originally the Ryobi saw was $1000 and came down to $300, now the craftsman version is about $450 last I checked.


This is also the downfall of the Ryobi saw IMO. HD had an exclusive deal to sell Ryobi products but I don't think I even saw a BT3xxx set up properly in the stores. Looks and feel of the display scared off many people not for the quality of the saw, but for the poor assembly/knowledge of the staff at HD.


buying used equipment of any sort does not support US jobs. You'd need to buy new products made in the USA. Good luck finding ANY saw that fits that bill any more.


you consider it an outlandish claim when you've already admitted that you've never used the product in question. So who is being outlandish? I've got 6 years experience with this saw, and have had used other saws so can make an honest comparison.

Ok, the parts maybe sold through Sears, but if I was going to spend $250 on a motor, I'd feel better about it if it was for a more expensive saw, and that the motor would be American made, this is what I meant about suporting US jobs. Lowes did the samething with the Delta Contractor' table saw. Whoever set up the store display didn't line up the wings flat with the top, and set the saw on the stand backwards. They eventually droped the Delta and hung on to the lesser quality Hitachi Hybrid. As KnottScott said, or something like it, It doesn't fit the bill for me, I think I've allready explained the reasons why. But like I said, if your happy with the saw thats all that matters. If I was looking for a saw the size and or weight of a Jobsite table saw I'd consider the Ryobi / Craftsman. It's alot cheaper then the DeWalt or the Bosch, etc. which I think are grossly overpriced. Although, I'm not a big fan of the slideing table, it might get used some with larger boards if the 12" compound miter saw can't handle them, but I don't see that happening alot. I think I'd rather just have a seperate sled for the larger boards.

[Charlie]

I admit, I've been away for a while, Spending more time on turning sites (as I have a Grizzly lathe), but I have to agree the attitudes have changed and I don't like it. This used to be the place where tool snobbery was something we chided the other sites while we looked for the best bang for the buck.

Hey, it's not like I'm telling everyone that they have to have a SawStop cabinet table saw. I only offered what I believe is the best bang for the buck nowdays. Take it or leave it.

[LCHIEN]

well the motor is only $180 not $250 which is significantly less than Charlie keeps quoting but that $180 is still a lot of money.
[PS I stand corrected, M&D Mower has the motor for $214 plus shipping, it's not $180. ]

I'd love to have a big Unisaw or other cabinet saw but I don't really need one. I work on weekends and some evenings and I like the accuracy of the BT3, I like the gadgets and attachment possibilities. Its stout enough for me, I take care of my tools and it stays in perfect adjustment, I don't push the motor on the rare ocassions when it labors to make a deep rip. The aluminum top requires little care and the whole thing at 125 lbs is heavy enough for all the wood I push across it. Runs smooth and makes great cuts with the WWII blade I have on it most of the time. As an engineer I like looking at the compromises they made to make the saw at this performance and price point. I think HD killed it, they were the sole Ryobi retailer and they didn't order any more; it probably clashed with their other line and they couldn't market it properly.

Still I have not regularly recommended it to those looking for saws on this forum because mostly I don't think they would take as good care as I do, now they would have to buy a used one which complicates things (no warranty, repairs may be required, usage history may be checkered). I guess the Craftsman "BT3" 21829 is a suitable alternative.

So my approach might not be for the benefit of those seeking an active BT3 owners membership - that membership will dwindle as original owners drift away to bigger and better saws or lose interest. But its a fact of life. There is a huge body of BT3 saws out there. To my reckoning there were several hundred thousand of them made.

My BT3 probably won't last 50 years, an I'm not sure what I'd replace it with if it were to disappear tomorrow. Still I've had many enjoyable moments with it and don't regret the purchase - I have probably $600 invested in the saw and Ryobi accessories.

[Knottscott]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

"What about the Sears equivalent saw? What does marketing a saw have to do with it's capabilities?

That post sounds like Congress worrying about letting the top-brass of the big three automakers go because they were afraid they'd "lose the talent". I got news for ya: The talent and the capabilities ain't in the Marketing departments!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thom...I found the above comment insulting and unsolicited (as in, I didn't intentionally take a shot at you). Unless something was lost in the text translation (often the case), your comment appeared personal, intentional, and you don't seem to care in the least that you've overstepped the common guidelines of most forums. Regardless of my opinion of any tool or woodworking related items, this forum has always been extremely friendly, and accepting of opposing and even dissenting opinions....it makes for some great discussion, and I've learned a lot from the folks here. In this specific case, the acceptance of others is what appears to have changed. Hopefully that change only pertains to small minority...one which I hope you choose to not be a part of. Re-read my comments and yours, and tell me don't agree....be honest. I said nothing derogatory about you or the tools you prefer, but as far as I can tell, the same is not true of your statements.

[Charlie]

well the motor is only $180 not $250 which is significantly less than Charlie keeps quoting but that $180 is still a lot of money.

I got the price from the Ryobi website. $248 plus shipping.

[Black wallnut]

SNIP........ What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. Theirs nothing wrong with haveing pride in the tools you have, and I respect that, but lets not get carried away. .......SNIP.

Really Charlie. I suggest you move along to a site more to your liking. You are making assumptions about a saw that you have no real knowledge about. Then with these unfounded assumptions you are making claims that are not fact based. This site was founded and first popultaed by fine folks that not only owned Ryobi saws but understood them and used them. Some of those fine folks had owned and used everything from cabinet saws to contractor saws. There is at least one world renowned wood worker, actually wood artist, who was using one to size rough timber to the end product in a production shop with a BT3K. Sure there are some that have gone to the dark side..... Rod Kirby, Stan in MT., Pat in GA, Jim in TX, and the origional Sicko Ryobi Cult Member, and more; there are also lots like myself that still use out BT3K's plus even more that are using the newer BT3100. Many of these fine folks will defend the BT3X saws as being worthy of ownership. It is not a saw for everyone and it may not be the best thing since sliced bread but darn near.

[Charlie]

No longer available.

[Black wallnut]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4". You want to question the inherrent accuracy of a SMT when compared to that miter guage?

The truth is that saw does look like a functional wood working tool. Does cast iron make it superior; I think not!