Advice on table saw choice

[Charlie]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4". You want to question the inherrent accuracy of a SMT when compared to that miter guage?

The truth is that saw does look like a functional wood working tool. Does cast iron make it superior; I think not!

LOL, There you go, over looking the fence, the miter gauge is minor, there are other aftermarket miter gauges out there that I'm sure are precise, or a sled can be used. But as I mentioned before, I feel that miters are best performed with a miter saw, it's safer because you have beter control of the board and it won't slip as easily, plus it's easier to lineup the blade to the line, and then theres length stops. I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time believeing that an American made table saw is lesser of a saw than a import, unless it was made in Germany or Switzerland.

[Hoover]

Charlie nice saw for 1930s technology, that's where that saw belongs. You like to be confrontational, that's your choice. However you really need to move on. Goodbye.

[vaking]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding in this string. For a hobbyist woodworker BT3 was and is a good value for its price when you are buying new equipment. It is accurate and hobbyist can live with light duty. It is difficult to justify spending thousands of dollars for a hobby equipment - not like you are dependent on it for income. That does not mean BT3 is a better saw than a professional cabinetmaner's equipment. If you give me a choice of Unisaw or BT3 for the same money - I will take Delta. This string started with a question whether BT3 is a better choice than a good contractor saw with expensive aftermarket fence for about same money as BT3. I agree with Charlie here - fence alone is worth this money if it is functional and contractor saw has a lot more potential if it can be restored. Sure there is risk involved because contractor's saw is older and used heavier than BT3, but it is still worth it. Additionally - BT3 being a light duty saw ages faster than heavy duty saws. Time takes bigger tall on BT3 than on professionals saw. There are many 40-year old professional saws still around and working fine but a 10-year old BT3 is not likely to have much life left in it. Between blade elevation mechanism and light-duty motor something is likely to fail after 10 years. Buying a used BT3 is just as risky as buying contractor saw that needs work. Notice that many forum members here moved to the dark side. Those of us who spend sizable slice of time on this hobby are moving to heavier iron.

Has this forum changed? Sure it has. This forum was originally dedicated to BT3 saw, later became a resource for woodworking beginners. BT3 saw has been discontinued for awhile, which means there are not many new members coming in lately. Even those that did are not really new to woodworking. People don't need much hand-holding here. That means there are less discussions about woodworking and more social topics. Coffee-pot has become more popular than all other sections combined. To some this is a change to the better, for others it is not. Matter of taste.

[Russianwolf]

It's okay, Charlie won't like the saw I'll be replacing my BT with when the time comes.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-S...ablesaw/G0623X or the 12 inch model if I can fit it in the shop.

[Sawatzky]

Of all the threads I have read on this forums since I have been a member (5 years), this is the most ridiculous. I can't believe we have rambled on for 63 posts about which table saw is better. I joined this forum and bought a BT because of it. I used it for 3 years and it worked great. I then sold it to buy a contractor saw. They all have blades. They all have motors. They all cut wood. Use/buy the one you like and be done with it, but why argue? If I was a lurker here I would not want to join this forum. Good grief people!

[Black wallnut]

LOL, There you go, over looking the fence, the miter gauge is minor, there are other aftermarket miter gauges out there that I'm sure are precise, or a sled can be used. But as I mentioned before, I feel that miters are best performed with a miter saw, it's safer because you have beter control of the board and it won't slip as easily, plus it's easier to lineup the blade to the line, and then theres length stops. I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time believeing that an American made table saw is lesser of a saw than a import, unless it was made in Germany or Switzerland.

Get a good grip there Charlie and be sitting down before reading this. I am not overlooking the fence one bit. The fact that that fence sells for big money does in no way, shape, manner or form make it better than the stock fence on the BT3K saw. Both fences when properly adjusted will help the user to guide a plank or sheet good straight into the blade to cut. Yet what is really clear is that in depth of cut the Ryobi wins hands down! Any 9" saw is inferior to the Ryobi 10" saw in depth of cut as are most other 10" saws inferior! Those are facts and to attempt to dispute them is pointless.

[Charlie]

I'll tell you why I'm so passionate about the Contractor's table saw. Since joining a few forums I got tired of listening to people telling me that a Contractor's saw was no good because of the lack of dust collection. Well I'm not going to sell my American made Delta for a import Hybrid saw or a import cabinet saw. So I worked on designing a new dust hood for under the saw, to me the flat plastic tray just wasn't the answer as others had also aparently felt, I made several prototypes until I felt I nailed it. Well that was all fine and dandy, people liked it but were asking about the back of the saw, so I worked on that diligently until I felt I was happy with that also. My biggest obstacle with that was for it not to interfear with any of the operations of the saw. In other words, not have to remember to remove anything before tilting the blade. All in all it took about a year and I'm very proud of what I have accomplished. I like my saw, with a few other inexpensive upgrades like the Delta outfeed table, relocation and replacement of the power switch to a large paddle switch under the fence rail, wired it for 220V, and added the Fenner Drives PowerTwist belt. It runs smooth and sings like a cabinet saw except without as much power, but still enough for what I do. I have had the saw since I bought it new in 1995 and never had a problem with it, it has seen alot of use, and I suspect it will see alot more. My shop is a double stall garage that I park our vehicles in daily, the motor detaches easily and quick, then the saw's backside goes up againt the wall at the end of the day. What concerns me is the lack of suport for manufacturers in this country, if you can't afford new, buy used. Now is a great time to be looking for used American iron. And to you Mark, for the record my main table saw is a Delta 34-445X TEN INCH Contractor's table saw. And I'll throw this back at you, have you ever used a Unifence for any length of time ? Can you tell me what a Unifence will do that a Ryobi BT fence can't do ? [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

[Black wallnut]

What can your unifence do that my Ryobi will not? Besides the built in low fence option? Both fences will assist the user to guide the work piece into the blade in a controlled straight line.

Charlie there is nothing wrong with you being passionate about your saw. Folks have been passionate about their saws for years on this site but until recently hardly anyone has ever played the my saw is better than your saw card. BT3Central members were once above that nonsense. The fact that many buy without Country of manufacture being their main concern is what it is. Furthermore it borders on bringing politic into the discussion so just drop that part of your argument. If you want to whine about the plight of American Manufacturing I'm sure you can find a political forum for that discussion. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not but this sites membership if far greater than just those folks form the iron belt. We are an international community!

[Charlie]

What can your unifence do that my Ryobi will not? Besides the built in low fence option? Both fences will assist the user to guide the work piece into the blade in a controlled straight line.

Charlie there is nothing wrong with you being passionate about your saw. Folks have been passionate about their saws for years on this site but until recently hardly anyone has ever played the my saw is better than your saw card. BT3Central members were once above that nonsense. The fact that many buy without Country of manufacture being their main concern is what it is. Furthermore it borders on bringing politic into the discussion so just drop that part of your argument. If you want to whine about the plight of American Manufacturing I'm sure you can find a political forum for that discussion. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not but this sites membership if far greater than just those folks form the iron belt. We are an international community!

Well I guess that means you haven't used a Unifence and your assumeing also. The fence can be slid back towards the operator, and can be safely used as a crosscut stop. Table saws and fences will allways be a highly debateable and personal subject, it's probably the most used tool in a persons woodshop. Probably why I'm so persistant about it is like I mentioned before, the Contractor's table saw in the last couple years I think has takein an bad rap for very little reason, and it frustrates me to watch it. In all fairness I think that if a person wants a saw right away and doesn't want or know how to work on machinery, then maybe the new BT/Craftsman, or a new Contractor's saw, or a new Hybrid, or a new Cabinet saw is the answer. If someone is mechanically inclined, and has the time to work on used equipment to their likeing and save a few bucks, then a used BT, or a used Contractor's saw , or used Cabinet saw maybe the answer. Alot of it depends on what the person wants to build, how much the person wants to spend, the space they have available in their shop, electrical requirements, etc. In most cases the original poster asking which saw to buy gives you little to go on, and it becomes a guessing game. Then there are people that think that their Jobsite saw is a Contractors saw ( which is partialy true I guess ), and people that think their Hybrid is a Cabinet saw because it looks like one. It can really get to be confusing unless you can see what they really have. I guess my point was that craft shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing and there are old American made saws out the at pretty darn reasonable prices, especially the Contractor's saws since they have takein a beating from Cabinet saw owners and manufacturers that want to sell you a new Hybrid. Buy when in less demand and the price is low. I'm not going to tell you that I think that a American made Contractor's saw is more accurate than a Import BT, or a import Hybrid saw, or a import Cabinet saw, but I will bet that the fit and finish are probably better, the motor is probably of higher quality and will last longer, and aftermarket American made parts are more available, such as belts, bearings, motors, and accessories.

[Black wallnut]

Well I guess that means you haven't used a Unifence and your assumeing also.

No I have not, nor am I assuming.

The fence can be slid back towards the operator,

actually I was aware of this feature but simply forgot.

and can be safely used as a crosscut stop.

wow what a feature. with the aid of a 99 cent spring clamp and an off cut I can do the same thing, although I'll wager my system is much faster to set up.

Table saws and fences will allways be a highly debateable and personal subject, it's probably the most used tool in a persons woodshop. Probably why I'm so persistant about it is like I mentioned before, the Contractor's table saw in the last couple years I think has takein an bad rap for very little reason, and it frustrates me to watch it. In all fairness I think that if a person wants a saw right away and doesn't want or know how to work on machinery, then maybe the new BT/Craftsman, or a new Contractor's saw, or a new Hybrid, or a new Cabinet saw is the answer. If someone is mechanically inclined, and has the time to work on used equipment to their likeing and save a few bucks, then a used BT, or a Contractor's saw , or used Cabinet saw maybe the answer. Alot of it depends on what the person wants to build, how much the person wants to spend, the space they have available in their shop, electrical requirements, etc. In most cases the original poster asking which saw to buy gives you little to go on, and it becomes a guessing game. Then there are people that think that their Jobsite saw is a Contractors saw ( which is partialy true I guess ), and people that think their Hybrid is a Cabinet saw because it looks like one. It can really get to be confusing unless you can see what they really have. I guess my point was that craft shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing and there are old American made saws out the at pretty darn reasonable prices, especially the Contractor's saws since they have takein a beating from Cabinet saw owners and manufacturers that want to sell you a new Hybrid. Buy when in less demand and the price is low.

The contractor saw has received fair treatment in the press. It is an old design with several well documented flaws. Some of the hybrid saws have fixed these flaws. Ryobi designed a saw in such a way as the known flaws were not present. Built-in DC, short belt, true riving knife, are just some of the features.

[Charlie]

Ryobi designed a saw in such a way as the known flaws were not present. Built-in DC, short belt, true riving knife, are just some of the features.

Before I had the Contractor's table saw I had a Delta Motorized table saw. The arbor was drivin by a small flat cogged belt, much like the BT. The back of the saw cabinet wasn't open, so dust collection wasn't much of an issue. It had a cast iron top, but the fence was mediocure, allways needed to be checked. The saw did the job, but not nearly as pleasurable as the Contractor's saw with a Unifence, the Contractor's saw is quieter also. I'm sure the cabinet saw is even a little more pleasurable with it's added weight, more HP, and a different trunion system, but it's not in my budget. Most of what I do on the table saw is 90 degree rips, and dados. Crosscut bevels I do on the compound miter saw, so the trunion issue isn't much of a problem for me. The open back on the Contractor's saw I don't think was really a flaw, it just wasn't a concern at the time they came out, the fences aparently weren't a big concern back then either. The Delta 9" Contractor's saw with the mediocure Jetlock fence was a very popular jobsite saw for many years, until Makita, DeWalt, Bosch, etc. came out with their versions of the light weight plastic and aluminum jobsite saws, which I think sell fairly well also.

[Gator95]

It really isn't that difficult- the BT3K is a precision hobbyist wood cutting machine. It is not built for contineous duty, but it is built to make accurate cuts. Really an innovative machine that will cut just as accurately as a cabinet saw when properly set up. It's not a production volume machine that a cabinet saw is. Never was meant to be.

I do not have one, I've got a Ridgid Contractor saw. Personal preference- me likey weight and steel. It's one drawback is the table-mounted trunnion. The motor out the back is really a non-issue IMHO, and dust collection is pretty good with the blade shroud and hose connection.

For the OP- Hope you went out and bought the Craftsman Professional 22124 display model saw. I've never heard one bad thing about the saw, might be the best 120V saw out there. Overpriced at >$1K, but a deal for under $500.

[Charlie]

For the OP- Hope you went out and bought the Craftsman Professional 22124 display model saw. I've never heard one bad thing about the saw, might be the best 120V saw out there.

I'd have to agree, but were there some problems with the motors from Orion ? Or was it just the drill presses ? It would be nice if the OP would return and share what the out come was. He didn't say what the table saw was that he is replaceing, and it's been a week since his last post. The only posts that he has are in this thread, I wonder if it was just a survey.

[Charlie]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4".

Are you sure that a BT will completely slice through a 4" x 4" in one pass ?

[Black wallnut]

Yes, a nominal 4x4 in one pass at 90°.