Shop lighting

[leehljp]

Overall, I like LED tubes because I can get the specific ones that I want and need. That said, there are two or three variables that make for good lighting in some cases and bad lighting in other cases. Since I do pens, and usually do a fine shiny finish, diffusers and those LEDs that are not totally linear, AND OR square LED dot, skip a space, square LED dot, skip - these cause dots and irregular reflections, which in turn can mask an imperfection in the finish. So for me, I prefer smooth lighting that is not sparkly like diffusers give off.

Also, I use 5000K because 4000K and less change the tone of a finish/wood and it looks different when outside versus inside. 5000K also reveals how different oil finishes change the tone much more so than 4000K.

Not sure if you can see this if you are not a member:

https://www.penturners.org/media/20210919_163036-jpg.43696/

(You may need to scroll up to the top of the page.)

That pen (as do many finely finished pens) show a reflection of the light as a linear glare. Spotted LEDs and Diffusers do not do that. Linear reflections show up the perfection and the imperfections.

[dbhost]

Overall, I like LED tubes because I can get the specific ones that I want and need. That said, there are two or three variables that make for good lighting in some cases and bad lighting in other cases. Since I do pens, and usually do a fine shiny finish, diffusers and those LEDs that are not totally linear, AND OR square LED dot, skip a space, square LED dot, skip - these cause dots and irregular reflections, which in turn can mask an imperfection in the finish. So for me, I prefer smooth lighting that is not sparkly like diffusers give off.

Also, I use 5000K because 4000K and less change the tone of a finish/wood and it looks different when outside versus inside. 5000K also reveals how different oil finishes change the tone much more so than 4000K.

Not sure if you can see this if you are not a member:

https://www.penturners.org/media/20210919_163036-jpg.43696/

(You may need to scroll up to the top of the page.)

That pen (as do many finely finished pens) show a reflection of the light as a linear glare. Spotted LEDs and Diffusers do not do that. Linear reflections show up the perfection and the imperfections.

My T12s that are currently in the fixtures are "daylight white" 5000K or so... And yes light color makes a massive difference, much lower on the scale and things start to look yellow to me.

I have not considered screw in bulbs for the shop, as I started with T12 shoplights, 2 rows of 3, 3.5 feet in from the sidewalls of the shop, and flush mounted to the studs. There is also 1 T12 fixture hanging over the table saw to give additional light in that critical area. I literally am presently have 5 of the fixtures populated with bulbs.

On the radiation pattern, LCHIEN may be right, however the lack of the reflector, and the very basic box that holds it all together,means less mounting options. Many of the flush mount options require using key slots for the screws. I want a more secure mounting method than keyways that are basically sideways... I want the screw head to stop any potential motion of the fixture. Probably overkill, but if I bump it, I would rather it not come crashing down on my all too shiny dome.

I do agree with the idea of diffusers. At least in what I have experienced so far though, forsted LED tubes tend to do the same, or at least a close enough job to diffusers...

[LCHIEN]

By diffusers I meant the frosted covering.

[dbhost]

So not referring to the frosted white polycarbonate panels? Gotcha...

[LCHIEN]

I was talking about Diffuser the translucent white stuff, the tube around the LEDs is made of. Not the diamond prism stuff, although that can also be called a diffuser. The white frosting on incandescent bulbs and Fluorescent tubes are also diffusers.

[dbhost]

Just was curious as to how much the workshop costs to operate going full blast.

As an experiment (and because I have 15- minute online kWh usage readings from the light company)
Late one night I turned on the shop lights and all the lights, the radio, the air compressor (cycling ), the overhead lights, the task lights on the machines, the air cleaner, the Dust collector at about 1:13 AM and ran it until 1:31 AM



The 15 minute kWh readings from before and after were.210, .269, .757, .310, .282; the .757 value covering the time from 1:15 to 1:30.
So my baseline of running stuff in the house was approx .267 - some indoor and outdoor lights, the central heater circulation fan coming on now and then, fridge cycling on and off, two or three computers, TV (wife watching) plus clocks and various small electronics. So my quarter hour shop consumption added about .490 kWh

That means the power drawn was 1.957 kW and in an hour I would have used basically 2 kWh. So at my present rate a shop hour would cost me around 20 cents of electricity. That doesn't include running any power tools But generally that would be more intermittent than continuous so it would not add much.

In retrospect the DC was probably about 1500 W (13 A) and the lights 360 W (9 x 40W) and the Air cleaner 100 W. Makes sense.

I am not particularly worried about cost factor, as much as load on the smart switch the lighting is on. I am limited to 600w for AC motors / incandescent / flourescent lighting, not sure why lighting type would matter. Anyway, I want the ambient air cleaner on that same circuit. Per the support team with the switch MFG, the G0572 7 dual bulb ballast bypass fixtures would be no problem at all but if I stay with flourescents, yes they are a problem... Again not a clue why...

Oh and I have been fishing around for more info on upgrading existing fixtures, replacing with new fixtures. Again mounting ability is another issue. The old floursecents mount via the reflector housing, the new LED fixtures I find mount via keyholes. I do not like the keyholes.

So I am between single ended, or double ended LED tubes. I may be wrong here, but for some reason, I get the feeling I would need to pay less attention swapping double ended tubes when the time comes, and no need to swap out keystones.

So I figure on going with the double ended.

Of course I need to get through the new year before I can do any of this...

[LCHIEN]

Fluorescents are bad power factor compared to Incandescents. Worse than LEDs I imagine, too. Meaning they draw a lot more current than indicated for the watts.

[furthermore]

I have two of these "corncob" style lights in my garage, and boy are they bright! https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-6...ulb/5000762957

[dbhost]

Never seen one of those before. Pretty bright I bet! However it is a single source. Doesn't that make the light REALLY bright at the source and cast a lot of shadows?

[furthermore]

It is VERY bright. I do sometimes have issues in like, the corner of the shop behind my drill press, but for the most part, it's not an issue. I think the walls being sheetrock white helps. I think if I only had one fixture it might be more of an issue, but with two of them spaced fairly evenly, it's really not an issue

[dbhost]

So an update to the conversation, and thank you LCHIEN for your input. As you may recall from the other thread. I had one tube that would not light in the proper orientation, but I had more tubes than I really needed...

I am now converted to 7 dual tube now LED tube fixtures in an 18x20 shop, with 3 clustered above the table saw and workbench.

And while I understand that flourescents / ballasts loose brightness but the differences in brighness was shocking. like I added easily another 50% of lights.

According to this listing on uline...

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-21222/Light-Bulbs/Fluorescent-Tubes-48-T12-Daylight?pricode=WB0551&gadtype=pla&id=S-21222&gclid=Cj0KCQiAip-PBhDVARIsAPP2xc3UL06x2R6aYxgfTZtnm8tPpgMWULgdjctVGYPiTfGYgfIdj-tYH60aAq-UEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

The Sylvania T12s I had been using are 1720 lumens, and according to Amazon, and the box of my LEDs they are 2400 lumens per bulb.

So the flourescent tubes gave me a total of 24,080 lumens.
The LEDs give me 33,600 lumens. Which is around 9K lumens additional, so roughly 1/3 more.

But as infomercials say. But wait, there's more!

As was told above, the flourescents emit their full brightness in 360 degrees, and the LEDs do so, in the ones I chose in 200 degrees. As long as it is oriented correctly well, I am not certain but I suspect that the reason it seems that much brighter is again, light pattern. I could be wrong, but it does seem that way.

All told, a well worth upgrade. Not saying you should go with a conversion, I did so because I liked the idea of keeping the reflectors in place. It did cost me some time, but it was worth it.

[LCHIEN]

Yes, definitely I have pointed out that the LED tubes have their elements arrayed to output light in about a 140 degree pattern around the axis of the bulb whereas Fluorescent tubes output into 360 degrees and that's why they need a reflector and LEDs do not. And even with the reflector the Fl. tubes lose some light as the white reflectors are nowhere near 100% and the tube itself blocks part of the reflection.

[Jim Frye]

I arrayed 17 GE daylight Britesticks in my 12x22x8 shop. Since they send light in a 360 degree circle, they are located 2 feet apart in staggered rows. The result is 13,260 lumens in a nearly shadowless pattern. May not be the best, but I have no issues seeing details. SWMBO says it is as bright as the Vegas strip in there. The entire array cost les than $78 for the boxes, screw bases, and bulbs. The problem with this setup is that GE got out of the lightning business and the Britesticks are no longer cheap, nor easy to find. I can just replace them with regular screw in LED daylight bulbs when my stock runs out. I've had two fail in the six years they have been installed.

[LCHIEN]

I have 5 four-ft. LED dual tube fixtures and 2 four-ft T8 dual Fluorescent fixtures. Its pretty well lit in my garage shop, but I have found that having LED task lights on goosenecks is very helpful for close work.

I have three such task lights, one each on the router table, the bandsaw and the drill press, they are very bright and help a lot. Magnetic bases and being light make them really easy to position. Longer goosenecks are available.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Flex..._d_rp_1_i&th=1



price has gone up, there are a bunch like it. I replaced older, less bright task lights about 1-1/2 years ago.

Oh, here, I got this one, too, quite a bit cheaper.at $17.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J4ZKGF4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[dbhost]

I have 5 four-ft. LED dual tube fixtures and 2 four-ft T8 dual Fluorescent fixtures. Its pretty well lit in my garage shop, but I have found that having LED task lights on goosenecks is very helpful for close work.

I have three such task lights, one each on the router table, the bandsaw and the drill press, they are very bright and help a lot. Magnetic bases and being light make them really easy to position. Longer goosenecks are available.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Flex..._d_rp_1_i&th=1



price has gone up, there are a bunch like it. I replaced older, less bright task lights about 1-1/2 years ago.

Oh, here, I got this one, too, quite a bit cheaper.at $17.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

I don't do "detail / close work" on anything a magnet would be useful on as I tend to have equipment with aluminum table tops except the bandsaw, lathe and jointer, none of that is for what I would consider close work.

I DO however REALLY want a gooseneck light I can attach to the scroll saw, and workbench just to eliminate worker caused shadow as I tend to cast a big shadow when I am over a piece I am working on close up...

I figure a clamp on gooseneck LED lamp would be fine, and could also be used on the bandaw. There are LOTS of options for thsoe these days. Most of them cheap.

[LCHIEN]

I would consider bandsaw and scroll saw and router to be close detail work and candidate for task lighting.

[capncarl]

I modified a long reach desk lamp for for a task light on my spindle sander. It was the kind that has parallel bars, a swivel joint in the middle and a hooded lamps. I wasn’t enough light so I removed the socket and replaced it with a double/bwkd to back socket from a ceiling fan light. Lowe’s had a particular LED flat bulb that was for a corded mechanics troubleshooting light on clearance. It put our a bunch of light so i installed 2 lights in the modified fixture. The bulbs swiveled well and I could put it where I wanted it. I always sit in a comfortable desk chair when using this sander, usually for hours at a time. Yesterday I noticed that there was a dim line of red light on my work piece? I can’t say it wasn’t here before, I just haven’t noticed it! Is this a characteristic of LED?