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  • WLee
    started a topic My Shop -- Clean, Refurb, Enhance, etc.

    My Shop -- Clean, Refurb, Enhance, etc.

    Workshop -- 12 x 16 addition to the side of my detached 2 door garage -- had become REALLY "cluttered" over the past couple of years (See Photo #1 below for some of the detritus {garage was even worse, but more on that some other time} -- alas the attached pic is an "AFTER" shot regarding the first few steps below -- didn't take a "BEFORE" picture, probably because I was too danged ashamed of just how cluttered it had gotten -- in fact, looking at it now, I honestly don't know HOW in the world I had actually been able to complete any projects in the past year or two; even though I know I did) ... so...
    1. Welp nothing for it just gotta start with Step #1: clean & organize; throw out junk that is really "junk" (or literally "garbage" as in WTF am I keeping THIS for ).
    2. Part of that is (of course) Step #2: Where can I store some of this crap (whether it's "new" crap or old crap I want to keep or can't bring myself to throw)... means I need to "create" some extra storage space.
    3. Well, lookee here I have about a dozen of those nice sturdy white STEEL shelf brackets, and some old shelving... Oh yeah, I remember now; I bought those brackets YEARS ago (on sale? who cares!) with the intent to put more shelves OVER the windows!!! I just didn't buy the "Round Tuit" components. (See Pic #1 again... TADA... quick install making certain they are nicely level & inline with top of wall cabinets {which are on a DIY wood "French Cleat" system} so that stuff can slide or cross from shelf to cabinet, etc. )
    4. Also... dangnabitall! the "shoe-rack" cabinet is (was) sagging at the bottom ... to the point that crap stored in it (and most of it was crap funny thing that) was starting to "slide/fall" out... So remove the JUNK from that, lift it from the cleats, and BRACE it up! With what you say? Hmmmm.... How about a 2x4 (or is that a 2x3)on edge? Yeah, that'll work. (See stained board below the middle cabinet in Pic #1).
    5. Plus, I can like put hooks and stuff on it to keep things the like Speed Square handy... How about even drill some holes to shove PENCILS into; that way pencils (several of them, OK at least a couple of them) can be handy AND I can "hang" things from the pencils too! WOOHOO!
    6. Then there is Batteries & of course charging & recharging & recharging... got one of the new Lime Green ( Eww why did they pick THAT color) "super smart" multi-charger thingees with some new Lithium batteries a year ago (SALE!!!), but the thing needs to be wall mounted... where? Well NEAR THE DOOR is best (See Pic #2 below!!! YAAAAY!)




    Next "thrilling" episode?

    See that stuff off to the right of the battery charger... yeah that's a "new" (to me) Craftsman Scroll Saw (I think it's actually a Ryobi with a "Craftsman" tag -- regardless, it was $20 used with metal stand & MDF flat top -- good deal, but SHITTY stand though, it's weak, wobbles, has no storage, doesn't "fit" my shop's system, and well, to be blunt, the stand is a piece of JUNK and it has GOTTA GO... bye bye)

    But that ScrollSaw (in good shape, runs, has manual, even blades!!! not bad for $20) has gotta go somewhere... guess it's time to BUILD yet another... -- I believe this will be #6 (or I guess #7 if I count the "bigger" one out in the garage under the sandblast box) -- of my patented (not really) "Mobile Tool Base Cabinet" designs. (See linked/attached {I think} pair of PDF files for 3D model: MTBC_3D_iso-only.pdf and a dimensioned plan & cutting guide: Mobile_Tool_Cab_Dim_Drawing.pdf ).
    Attached Files
    Overall Shop photo... Egads what a mess! (Worse, this pic is with it already partially "cleaned") LIME GREEN?  Why??? Doesn't fit the decor of the "old" Ryobi Red, White & Blue (OR the Black & Gold).  Oh well, I guess it stands out.
    Last edited by WLee; 06-29-2018, 12:06 AM.

  • mpc
    replied
    "Mechanics tool chest." I knew "machinists chest" sounded wrong as I was typing it bleary-eyed late last night. I have the US General double-bank roller cabinet. HF's current version is item 64133 or 64281. I bought it many years ago on sale - much less than the $480 current price though I don't remember the exact price. It was considerably lower though; the sale price was well below a typical HF sale percentage so I jumped on it at the time. It's been a good cabinet though it doesn't roll very well. It's especially hard to "park" against a wall as the non-castering wheels face parallel to the wall, not perpendicular to it. So you have to drive it as though parallel parking a car. And thus you need space to the left or right of where you want it parked while parking it. I only move mine when the shop layout is being changed so it's not a huge issue for me. The stuff I have stored in mine likely doesn't weigh even half the capacity of this thing so the drawers and drawer slides aren't challenged by my tools. So far everything works well - smooth, no hints of jams or trying to flex out of shape, etc. One of HF's "gems" in my opinion. I never installed the handle either so I can park other things closer to it. The pics on the HF web site show the handle on the side by the non-castering wheels... looks like it'd be darn hard to steer that way! Oh, one nuisance issue with mine: the key lock is spring loaded to eject the key. So you can't unlock it and leave the keys hanging from the lock... they'll get spat out onto the floor when you let go. That's my only complaint.

    Park one of those near your bench... holds a ton of stuff for easy/ready access. The top can be used to temporarily pile stuff, hold a copy of your plans, and makes a good place for battery chargers. Lots of semi-shallow drawers beats a few deep drawers for hand tools, drill bits, etc.

    I've picked up a couple of the HF "mover's dollies" too when they were on sale - the 30x18 inch ones. They're handy if you have stuff piled up for storage... stack boxes on these things and at least you can shove them out of the way easily. The casters don't lock so they wouldn't work too well for mobile tool cabinets but they're fine for making that non-shop stuff stored in your shop/garage less of a nuisance. Or under that trash can full of cutoffs... or under the boxes of holiday decorations...Side benefit: your boxes are now 3 - 4 inches off the floor in case the garage/basement/storage building gets a minor flood.

    mpc
    Last edited by mpc; 08-01-2018, 10:26 PM.

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  • Carlos
    replied
    I think my "final" solution for having tools neat and also at-hand has evolved into a pegboard near the assembly table, and a very small, open rolling cart. That stupid little $30 cart changed everything, and the shelves/holders have mesh bottoms so sawdust and junk won't collect. The impacts/drills sit on top, along with any "right now" hardware. Project pieces and other hardware in the middle. Gloves and other "maybe" supplies at the bottom, or stuff I'll need later in the project. Baskets on the side for drawing tools, cutting tools, etc. Things come from the pegboard if needed and the cart keeps them with me.

    I keep some tools in their rotomolded boxes, but only if they are rarely used tools and have accessories to fit with them. Say, the Dremel, or the heat gun, things like that. Higher-usage things live on the pegboard or in zip-up tool bags on a shelf nearby. The most-used like impacts and drills live on the rolling cart now.

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  • WLee
    replied
    Originally posted by mpc View Post
    Another thing about shop storage: I like to keep stuff put away... and to keep tools with their accessories. The plastic boxes that come with many tools often do a good job of storing stuff and making it obvious when something is missing. BUT those "suitcases" are horribly inefficient on overall space AND require a free/clean tabletop when you actually want to get to the tool. So I only use those for things that I don't use all that often... where I'd likely forget what accessories actually belong to that tool otherwise. Such tools and suitcases live on the top of my wall mounted cabinets... the suitcases are sometimes too large to put inside cabinets and are especially too big for drawers. And I do need a step stool to reach 'em. Larger jigs and fixtures live above the cabinets too.
    Pretty much in agreement on all points there.


    Besides the basic roll-around tool cabinet/boxes, one of the most useful storage things in my shop is a wall mounted pegboard "book" for basic hand tools. I've posted pics of it at pegboard pages - see post #7 This puts frequently used small tools right above my workbench and keeps things separated/sorted. That's an old picture; I've moved many of the tools around since then as I've added a few more hand saws. As with the rest of my storage, I try to keep each page/drawer/cabinet/whatever to a particular theme as much as possible. So the "hand saws" pages have been re-worked and are less cluttered looking than that pic shows even after adding two more detail saws.
    I really LIKE the "pages" idea (especially double-sided and the way you "stair stepped" them) -- but I'm afraid that I have to agree with leehljp -- I really can't STAND "pegboard" or the pegboard "hooks" and such -- now SLATWALL, that's a different matter.


    And I have a large roll-around auto-shop/machinists style tool chest from HF near the bench that holds all sorts of stuff. Lots of not-too-tall drawers makes it easy to find things that don't "fit" pegboard too well and would end up piled on top of each other with shelves or deep drawers. Things like files, tape measures, rulers, manuals for the power tools, brushes, the Wixey angle gauge, and a few fairly fragile items live in this tool chest. It would also be ideal for chisel storage though I have my "daily use" chisels on the even-faster-to-reach pegboard pages and my nicer/more expensive chisels are in the same cabinet that has my other hand-tool favorites: my hand plane collection.
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ID:	833804Do you mean a MECHANIC'S tool chest/cabinet/cart (like the blue one at left -- or sometimes two separate pieces, a base chest with a smaller upper chest) ???
    Because generally speaking a MACHINIST'S tool chest (like the "wood" one at right) is a somewhat different beast.. generally they're a lot smaller, not on wheels, and with no base cabinet.

    They DO have some "sort of" similarities, in that they both have relatively "shallow" drawers -- and for the very reason that you note -- keeping tools from "getting buried" -- but generally MACHINIST chests have a lot of very SMALL (narrow) drawers (felt lined like a jewelry box; lots of small tools, precision stuff, etc -- whereas MECHANICS chests tend to have full-width drawers.

    Reason I ask is because -- inheriting my fathers metal lathe and milling machine (and all the rest of the bits & pieces, which he NEVER had a decent cabinet to organize them in) -- I've contemplated possibly buying the Harbor Freight ("el cheapo" imported from China or elsewhere even more dubious) "machinist" chest... and I'm wondering what the quality is actually like (could be decent, could be -- more likely is, given the price -- complete crap). So if you have the one at right I'd like to know what you think of it (quality wise).

    Wondering if it's worth the bother even taking a trip to look at in person (nearest HF is like an hour drive from me, and in a city I usually don't get too often, so it'd basically be a "special trip"); and though I know I can order it online, well it's just not something I want to buy w/o being certain.

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  • WLee
    replied
    Originally posted by mpc View Post
    The ceiling tile idea looks like something I should seriously consider - it checks the boxes for all of my concerns:
    - It looks low-weight which is a BIG concern of mine. Looking at the span of some of the truss beams in my shop/garage building I was always concerned that the long 2x4s (wall to wall, mostly to keep the roof from bowing the walls outwards) wouldn't really support the weight of drywall panels.
    Yes, most "drop ceiling/ceiling panel" systems are very lightweight -- exactly HOW lightweight depends on the materials (there are a huge number of different kinds, from simple thin plastic corrugated sheets {even CLEAR plastic for recessed fluorescent tube lights} as well as thing plastic coated fiberglas, various "mylar & metalicized" coated molded foam+plastic panels and the cheapest "mineral board") and "styles" of the panels (they're all "lightweight" it's just that with some kinds that term doesn't do them justice, they have so little mass that "featherweight" would probably be a better term). And yes, especially if you're planning on hanging OTHER stuff from the trusses, eliminating the weight of sheetrock/drywall will help. (Hint: it's STILL not generally a great idea to hang HEAVY things {or rig "chain/electric hoists" and such} from generic trusses, especially not near the center of the span -- out near the wall is less of a concern {though not ZERO concern} -- much better is if somehow the weight is more directly transferred to the outer bearing wall; hence wall mounted things rather than ceiling mounted.)


    - access to the attic area remains - simply move/remove a few tiles as needed. Drywall would be fixed in position limiting access... adding a typical pull-down access stair and crawling through the attic on those wimpy looking 2x4s never appealed to me. I want to maintain access for maintenance purposes - to look for roof leaks, fix the chef's fan attic vent if/when necessary, inspect for unauthorized 4/6/8 legged critters, etc.And it'd make it much easier to add more wiring too.I have conduit already running just above the walls... moving one row of ceiling tiles to access those conduits and/or add more is trivially easy.
    Yes, especially if you use a "snap in" system like the CeilingLink product... literally you can just "pull out" part of the lower CeilingLink "T" (inverted "T") channel from the upper one and then remove/replace the panels as needed or desired. Doing things like running Romex electrical wire becomes even easier if you do as I did and run "furring strips" (even if just 1/2" thick) perpendicular to the truss/rafters and screw the upper "T" of the CeilingLink channel to that; that way there are "gaps/channels" in both directions, i.e. length-wise from front to back of building, as well as width-wise from left to right.)

    As for the "pull down stair" things (and you CAN get aluminum ones), they're not meant for regular/frequent use buy a bunch of heavyset people (i.e. not a "party location") nor should typical garage truss "attic" storage space be used for massive/heavy things (you're right in that the trusses just generally are NOT designed for that) -- but as a place to store infrequently needed (like say camping gear, folding chairs, etc) and relatively "lightweight" crap (especially sealed in boxes or those big plastic bins), to be accessed by ONE person at a time... well that's another matter.


    - installation looks a bit easier too... smaller/lighter panels compared to drywall so less grunt work and easier fitting. My trusses and other support 2x4s (diagonals in the corners) create a bit of an obstacle course up there. Especially for panels as large as drywall.
    In addition to the other advantages -- that was the BIG "selling/deciding point" to me -- since I knew I'd likely have to do almost ALL of the install single-handed, and probably across the span of several weeks/weekends; also (as I think I already mentioned) I could do it "little by little" allowing me to shift all of the crap in the garage to one side or the other, etc, allowing me to work my way across the garage.


    I can run normal insulation bats between the rafters/trusses along the roof itself; using those spacer duct things to keep the insulation from blocking all airflow on the underside of the roof sheathing. Right now that's an easy installation in my shop... but how to cover/hide the insulation when done has been the question. Until now.
    Yup! Exactly. Really GOOD R value (not only helps keep the garage warm in winter, but also COOL in summer).

    One note though, the "attic" space, once it gets closed/insulated off, WILL tend to become almost like an "oven" (in summer times, on hot sunny days; and of course a "freezer" in winter {which you want, cold attic prevents "ice dams" at the overhang}) -- well maybe "oven" is a bit of an exaggeration, but we're talking easily reaching 120 degrees F and possibly higher (in case you're using it AS an "attic" for storing things, stuff won't "burst into flame" but certain plastics COULD "melt" over time) -- point is you probably want to install some kind of a "ridge vent" at the peak, as well as a way (screened louvered vents on the gable ends) for cooler air to circulate in, allowing the heat to vent out.


    p.s. the drywall panels in my shop are screwed to studs like normal... BUT the seams are not taped at all. So it's fairly easy to remove a panel for additional wiring or whatever (potential A/C ducting? ) when needed. Since this building is detached from the "living space" of the house the joints don't require sealing/taping. I believe anyway... the garage attached to the house has one wall fully finished & sealed --> the wall shared with the living space plus a few feet of the walls adjacent to that one. I quizzed the city code inspector (when I had the house A/C installed) and he said that was all code required around here. So even though I've drywalled the detached garage/shop building, taping the joints isn't essential. I didn't fill in the screw holes either so finding the studs is trivially easy!
    Yeah, problem with removing & reinstalling sheetrock/drywall is that it tends to not LIKE having that done... And no, as far as I know, no "taping/mudding" (or indeed ANY interior wall panel at all) is "required" by building codes when you're talking about detached non-living-space structures. (Generally with "attached" garages the main concern is a "firewall" on the wall wherever the garage "meets" the living quarters... AFAIK they don't give a crap what/how the rest of the garage is "finished" or not, but of course LOCAL "codes" can vary on that.)

    I chiefly did the plywood because I wanted the durability of the plywood (if lumber crashed against a wall, I didn't want it to go THROUGH the wall panel, LOL...) and also I wanted the extra strength it provided, as well as the ability to basically screw ANYTHING in, ANYWHERE along the wall (up/down, left/right) and to be able to unscrew it, move it rescrew it, etc... without weakening the actual panel. The plywood WAS more expensive (in terms of the panel material itself), but when I figured in the cost (AND effort/work) of trying to prime/paint/finish it... well, the plywood was worth it IMO.

    Plus, when I was a kid (maybe 9 or 10), my brother (3 year older) and I insulated & finished off the walls in our Dad's garage -- with his approval & permission at the time (plus his money paying for the material, we just provided the "free" child/slave labor) -- lower 4 ft in particle board, upper 4 ft in sheetrock/drywall (taped/mudded & painted per his instructions) -- and while it LOOKED good enough, there were several occasions when he had to "patch" the drywall, and a couple of spots where the particle board got damp/wet & crumbled... he "cussed" at those choices several times, and frequently stated he'd REALLY wished he'd spent a little more, and had us install plywood instead.

    SO I DECIDED TO BE "WISE" -- and to learn from that... that is other people's "mistakes" rather than just my own. (Just like I learned -- again from my father's experience -- that I didn't want my workshop to be in a basement, and I learned from other people's houses, that I absolutely did NOT want an "attached" garage, etc).

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  • mpc
    replied
    Another thing about shop storage: I like to keep stuff put away... and to keep tools with their accessories. The plastic boxes that come with many tools often do a good job of storing stuff and making it obvious when something is missing. BUT those "suitcases" are horribly inefficient on overall space AND require a free/clean tabletop when you actually want to get to the tool. So I only use those for things that I don't use all that often... where I'd likely forget what accessories actually belong to that tool otherwise. Such tools and suitcases live on the top of my wall mounted cabinets... the suitcases are sometimes too large to put inside cabinets and are especially too big for drawers. And I do need a step stool to reach 'em. Larger jigs and fixtures live above the cabinets too.

    Besides the basic roll-around tool cabinet/boxes, one of the most useful storage things in my shop is a wall mounted pegboard "book" for basic hand tools. I've posted pics of it at pegboard pages - see post #7 This puts frequently used small tools right above my workbench and keeps things separated/sorted. That's an old picture; I've moved many of the tools around since then as I've added a few more hand saws. As with the rest of my storage, I try to keep each page/drawer/cabinet/whatever to a particular theme as much as possible. So the "hand saws" pages have been re-worked and are less cluttered looking than that pic shows even after adding two more detail saws.

    And I have a large roll-around auto-shop/machinists style tool chest from HF near the bench that holds all sorts of stuff. Lots of not-too-tall drawers makes it easy to find things that don't "fit" pegboard too well and would end up piled on top of each other with shelves or deep drawers. Things like files, tape measures, rulers, manuals for the power tools, brushes, the Wixey angle gauge, and a few fairly fragile items live in this tool chest. It would also be ideal for chisel storage though I have my "daily use" chisels on the even-faster-to-reach pegboard pages and my nicer/more expensive chisels are in the same cabinet that has my other hand-tool favorites: my hand plane collection.

    mpc
    Last edited by mpc; 07-11-2018, 11:31 PM.

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  • mpc
    replied
    The ceiling tile idea looks like something I should seriously consider - it checks the boxes for all of my concerns:
    - It looks low-weight which is a BIG concern of mine. Looking at the span of some of the truss beams in my shop/garage building I was always concerned that the long 2x4s (wall to wall, mostly to keep the roof from bowing the walls outwards) wouldn't really support the weight of drywall panels.

    - access to the attic area remains - simply move/remove a few tiles as needed. Drywall would be fixed in position limiting access... adding a typical pull-down access stair and crawling through the attic on those wimpy looking 2x4s never appealed to me. I want to maintain access for maintenance purposes - to look for roof leaks, fix the chef's fan attic vent if/when necessary, inspect for unauthorized 4/6/8 legged critters, etc.And it'd make it much easier to add more wiring too.I have conduit already running just above the walls... moving one row of ceiling tiles to access those conduits and/or add more is trivially easy.

    - installation looks a bit easier too... smaller/lighter panels compared to drywall so less grunt work and easier fitting. My trusses and other support 2x4s (diagonals in the corners) create a bit of an obstacle course up there. Especially for panels as large as drywall.

    I can run normal insulation bats between the rafters/trusses along the roof itself; using those spacer duct things to keep the insulation from blocking all airflow on the underside of the roof sheathing. Right now that's an easy installation in my shop... but how to cover/hide the insulation when done has been the question. Until now.

    thanks for the great idea!

    mpc

    p.s. the drywall panels in my shop are screwed to studs like normal... BUT the seams are not taped at all. So it's fairly easy to remove a panel for additional wiring or whatever (potential A/C ducting? ) when needed. Since this building is detached from the "living space" of the house the joints don't require sealing/taping. I believe anyway... the garage attached to the house has one wall fully finished & sealed --> the wall shared with the living space plus a few feet of the walls adjacent to that one. I quizzed the city code inspector (when I had the house A/C installed) and he said that was all code required around here. So even though I've drywalled the detached garage/shop building, taping the joints isn't essential. I didn't fill in the screw holes either so finding the studs is trivially easy!

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  • WLee
    replied
    Originally posted by dbhost View Post
    Individual stands like you did, have the advantage of being set, and ready to go when you are, and you can build them to put the tool exactly at the height you want to work at. You are not dependent upon the other tool on the flip top. Plus you can use the under cabinet area to store the accessories for that machine. So say the drill press can have the drill bits and hand held drills, pocket hole jig etc... stashed in maybe drawers underneath the drill press. sander could have spare belts, hand sanders, sanding sheets etc... Light stuff kept low and high, heavy stuff kept waist high if possible... But at the sacrifice of floor space. Again this is a problem in a small shop....
    Yes those are pretty much the advantages of the "simple" mobile cabinet (at least assuming you actually do the "drawer build binge" instead of {like me}, having a collection of yet unused drawer slides, LOL)...
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    Though I'd add a couple more; like that my cabinets tend to be a pretty NARROW (just 16" wide) which allows them to be packed in pretty tightly in a lineup (see the "lineup pic" in previous comment above) and then -- if necessary (assuming it can't be used "in place" within the lineup, which they often CAN be) -- the cabinet can be pulled/rolled OUT from the lineup (sort of like pulling out a drawer) -- and of course I can easily have dedicated dust collection (no need to swap hoses) and the machines can all be plugged in for ready access/immediate use. (Not having any little "urchins" about that I need fear cutting their fingers off, I can leave everything plugged in, etc.)

    EDIT: Also in terms of "storage"; for a while I tended to keep: my hand held drills as well as big "drill bit packs" in the cabinet under the drill press; the circular & recip saws under the band saw, the various handheld sanders under the disc/belt sander, and the trim routers under the router table (the drawers of which DO exist and actually have router bits & tools, etc in them); but they were more or less just crammed into the under too cabinet space, not really well organized. But, I actually no longer do that, not because it was necessarily a bad system, but rather because I bought & plopped one of those cheapie Harbor Freight workbenches {pic at right} into the middle of my shop -- and yeah, I know, I know... it's not a REAL "Scandinavian" workbench, etc, but f'in h*ll, it was also only $125, instead of a grand, and it does what I need it to... anyway, virtually all of my most commonly used handheld tools (battery or corded) now live on the shelf below that workbench... just much more readily accessible there.

    But as for the "flip top" things...
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    Well, by contrast to my design, what I normally see for "flip top" style cabinets, they tend to be LESS compact; often they NEED to be wider in one dimension because one or the other of the tools is invariably bigger than the other, and then with a bit of "extra" width to make certain there is clearance for the "flipping" (like the photo at left). Generally they get built wider (or I guess you could say "longer/deeper") in order to lend more stability to the unit (particularly when trying to "flip" heavy beast tools that aren't necessarily well-balanced or matched with the paired tool). IN many cases the sides get "beefed up" (like the one in the pic at right) in order to not only regain storage space, but to help with the solidity/stability (I'd bet the one at left is a bit "dubious"in regards to just how firm/stable that top was with only the "finger" sides sticking up, hence the reason he added the 1x4 verticals on the edges {which LOOKS like it doesn't take more space, but it actually HAS made the unit about 6" to 7" wider than it would have needed to be to simply accommodate the tools themselves); of course YMMV on that.
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    In some cases (like the 3 tool "flipper" in the pic at the immediate left), well it not only has to be flipped -- AND notably have clearance front & back for the tools that then stick out (presumably it's normal "compact" orientation is with the drill press UP) -- but it also has to be a 4 caster "spinner" because the 3rd tool has to be used from the BACK)... which means you need to have clearance area TO "spin" the thing (worse yet trying to "spin" it in the configuration shown). Seems like it ends up being probably LESS efficient use of space than it initially appears to.

    I'd also be rather concerned about how well "balanced" any/all of these things are; you can just as easily put your back out or wrench a shoulder, etc just when trying to "flip" or "spin" such beasts (cabinet carrying 2x or 3x the total tool weight to boot), especially if they're NOT "well balanced" and/or start to "get away from you" and you do quick attempt to "catch" the thing (from falling, from back-flipping, or flipping too far, etc).

    Then of course ALL of those "flipper" tool cabinets are entirely LACKING any really usable "storage space -- even the one on the right, for all it's extra size to add storage/stability, well seems pretty INefficient for storage, unless it's MAIN job is to be an out-feed table for the cabinet saw next to it (but it doesn't appear to be the right height for that, and it's use as a "workbench" if/when the planer is lowered would seem dubious as well) -- and of course dust collection hookup (or indeed even power cord storage/hookup) for all of these are probably a bit of a PITA.

    I mean again, I "get" the need for compactness (trust me, I really do, my whole life & work has been in rather "tight" quarters -- relatively speaking -- and I'm nearly always trying to pack 10lbs in a 5lbs sack so to speak {usually succeed too!})... It's just that sometimes I think we get carried away with, ad even overly attached to the "ingenuity" aspect of a certain design IDEA, even when it ends up not being very practical -- and then of course there is the "sunk cost" side: bit of "humble pie" that is tough to swallow having put in the effort & time & resources to build such a thing, and then admit that... well, maybe it really ISN'T as convenient or as much of a "space saver" as we intended (or hoped).

    Basically I think any/all tool cabinet designs are compromises" in one way or another, with the various contending issues/priorities: space, convenience, stability, accessibility, storage, etc -- you invariably have to trade-off or sacrifice (or at least decrement) one or the other of those in order to accommodate/increase the others -- so which design you end up with really depends on how you define your priorities.

    CHEERS!


    Click image for larger version  Name:	104037737.jpg Views:	1 Size:	94.9 KB ID:	833791P.S. Arguably I guess I do still have one "flip" tool -- one I tend to forget about because it IS "hidden" and since I have the BT3100, I just don't use much anymore -- in the Ryobi CMS that (along with small circ saw, speed saw, recip saw, drill, flashlight & three batteries) came inside the gray plastic wheeled box (with collapse handle, ala "wheelie suitcase") as part of the "Six Pack" SPC18 setup (see pic example at left) when Ryobi first introduced the 18V+ battery powered tool line -- I suppose technically that was my first "Ryobi" branded * tool purchase, circa summer of 2002 (and mainly bought & used to build the workshop). I guess those are pretty "rare"; and the 18V CMS isn't necessarily all that great, but it did the job I needed it to at the time (and the whole "all in one box" cart was handy on a couple of other occasions as well; I really DID use it in the "portable" sense it was designed for, just not more than a half dozen times).

    * Arguably I already owned a couple of other Ryobi tools before that (the old mini-biscuit cutter, and an orbital handheld, corded sander), but those were both bought as "Craftsman" labeled things (though I knew they were actually made by Ryobi when I bought them, Sears just had a better deal, and there weren't as many Home Depot stores near me back then, which was circa mid 1990's).
    Last edited by WLee; 07-11-2018, 07:10 PM.

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  • Carlos
    replied
    Maybe. This sort of thing is so hard to describe. I can get a video later if you want.

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  • dbhost
    replied
    Ugh, so it doesn't quite work the way it looks online... Too bad noody local carries them...

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  • Carlos
    replied
    Hah, I'm constantly finding uses for them. Softwood as cauls, drill backing, fillers, whatever. Hardwoods for jigs, small projects, trim on projects, and tests. MDF for jigs, backers, etc. If it starts to get tall, it becomes that winter's campfire starters (except the toxic stuff of course). That lamp project I just posted used a number of "junk" thin cutoffs from that bin.

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  • capncarl
    replied
    I love how everyone has the miter saw station that has the bottom storage filled up with cutofffs that we just canít bear to throw out!

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  • Carlos
    replied
    I have that Hitachi saw and love it. But I'm not sure what's different, and want to make sure you understand how it works. There are double slides, and when left unlocked, it tends to slide rearward first, then the front part slides. You can lock the rear part and slide only the front, but then friction goes way up. I can measure my space usage if you'd like.

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  • dbhost
    replied
    Originally posted by WLee View Post

    Oh, don't get me wrong, I truly LOVE and quite appreciate the fact that I am sort of "privileged" to (finally, after almost two decades of renting w/o even a garage or ANY "shop" area!) have been able to build and have the "dedicated" workshop area (technically 12 x 16, but I have a 5' wide opening to the two car garage {20 x 24}, so if/when I do any BIG projects, I just have to pull/keep one or more of the vehicles out)... And of course it's not just "dedicated" but separate from the house (and on a DETACHED garage -- which is also now fully insulated, & heated -- Hot Dawg 45k BTU propane ceiling mounted -- that thing is soooo sweet) so no car or painting/varnishing related odors & fumes OR any sawdust in my food, or floating into my house, bedroom etc. YAAAY!

    But it's also that I live in a rural area where a lot of guys have separate "pole barn" (40 x 100, etc) workshops, so to them, my workshop is TINY (they call it my "toy" workshop, with my "toy" tools, etc -- which they're not entirely wrong about, I mean it is just my "hobby" I'm not doing commercial cabinetry or anything).
    That makes all the difference in the world for sure. I am in the 'burbs where my HOA limits outbuildings to 10x12 with a roof height no taller than 9' which won't work well for me. I have been doing LOTS of research and they have waived this plenty of my neighbors. THere are TONS of screen enclosures over pools etc.. that are 20x30 with peak heights of about 18'. I have enough info to show precedent and most likely get a waiver. However I don't have a huge back yard. 12x16 gambrel roof barn with a 16' peak would be more than enough for me. And I think I can get away with it!

    Plus conversely, I guess you gotta realize I grew up around a lot of small "makeshift" workshops, including my dad's being in our (low ceiling dank, dark, cramped) basement space (the far corner from the narrow stairs too!) -- it was deuced difficult to get equipment or even any sizable wood down into the shop area, much less finished projects back out of it -- not to mention perennially tracking sawdust back upstairs, & smelling everything etc. That experience made me decide that I definitely wanted a "dedicated" workshop... high ceilings/walls and stuff too... plus wanted it to be BRIGHT (white upper walls, ceiling, lots of light, natural & artificial, etc)...

    EDIT: Also, I have a separate 10x10 "garden shed" -- actually built that FIRST (IIRC, summer right after I bought the house, just did one of those "kit" things, though I "upgraded" the flooring and subroof with real lumber {boards not "OSB" and 17+ years later I'm glad I did that}) -- needed to get the garden tractor & snowblower & assorted other crap OUT of the garage, else I couldn't even put two vehicles in there (also I REALLY don't like having/storing gasoline cans in the garage).
    My Dads workshop was in our basement as well. He didn't have nearly the setup I do, just an old Craftsman table saw, a Craftsman tube lathe, a Rockwell drill press and that was about it. A mess of hand tools, He flattened and squared up his stock with a hand plane, Nobody in his generation gave dust collection a single thought, and assembly was done on the other side of the stair case in the rec room.


    ...
    How do you like the "vertical stacker" thing?
    It's not working for me the way I wanted it to. I've been diagnosed with an arthritic shoulder at a fairly early age, and I have known back issues. Injections and physical therapy can only do so much. The fact is the bench top tools are still pretty heavy, and the vertical stacker, while space efficient, is very difficult for me to use effectively..

    I had started out with rolling stands, sort of in the same vein as yours, but basically a 2x4 framed box that was enclosed with 3/4" plywood. Massive, and overkill.

    For my needs I am giving serious thought into the individual rolling cabinets like yours. I need to sell off, or modify some tools though. Specifically the drill press as I want a good throw benchtop press, and there are few of those on the market. I can either cut down the column on my floor model, which I may do. My brother in law has a body shop and the know how to do it. Or I may sell it and grab a new Wen 12" press.... I like the idea of a new drill press, but my old Northern Tool DP has been a champ, and I bought it for next to nothing...

    I would need cabinets for the following benchtop, or benchtop converted tools.

    Drill Press
    HF Mortiser
    Scroll saw
    Rigid Oscillating spindle / belt sander
    6" Benchtop jointer.
    13" Lunchbox planer
    8" Bench Grinder and sharpening station.

    I had and am still debating building flip top stands to save floor space. I would probably pair them thusly.

    Drill Press / Mortiser
    Jointer / Planer
    Scroll Saw / Sander

    That would leave the grinder / sharpening station solo, which is okay. I can use the lower part for lathe tools....

    And yes, how hard they are to use on the back and shoulder MUST be taken into consideration. I am NOT getting any younger that's for sure.

    Individual stands like you did, have the advantage of being set, and ready to go when you are, and you can build them to put the tool exactly at the height you want to work at. You are not dependent upon the other tool on the flip top. Plus you can use the under cabinet area to store the accessories for that machine. So say the drill press can have the drill bits and hand held drills, pocket hole jig etc... stashed in maybe drawers underneath the drill press. sander could have spare belts, hand sanders, sanding sheets etc... Light stuff kept low and high, heavy stuff kept waist high if possible... But at the sacrifice of floor space. Again this is a problem in a small shop....


    EDIT: Also kind of ironic on the whole BT3100 "attached router table" -- that was actually one of the MAIN things that appealed to me about the BT3100, I even bought the "accessory kit" and stuff... ended up NEVER actually using the built-in router table; see I didn't have a router, and when the Ryobi stand-alone router table WITH router came on sale (same price as router alone), well I just never bothered with the one on the BT3100 (probably still have all the accessory things in a box somewhere). TBH I don't use the router table that much, tend to actually use the little 18V "trim" router more than anything else (roundovers, etc).
    I used the OEM router table accessory and didn't care for it. I like a shop built with a full plate instead. Just my preferences.... But I also don't use a Ryobi router. So to get my Hitachi KM12VC to work, I have to mod the mounting plate, a LOT and the collar hole in the Ryobi plate is too small for the big bits my Hitachi can spin....

    I have been considering a smaller Ryobi or maybe a Bosch hand held router for smaller jobs though. Something easier to manage....

    Another area in my shop I am really unhappy with space usage is the 12" Sliding compound miter saw. The rear slide arrangement is VERY inefficient space wise. While it is more than I can spring for at this time, My long term goal is to replace my large saw with a forward slide arranged Hitachi C12RSH2 15-Amp 12-Inch Dual Bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw. At the very least, I want to move it off of the big space sucker bench I built for it, and get it onto something a bit less space consuming.

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  • WLee
    replied
    Originally posted by mpc View Post
    I decided on dedicated boxes for each tool rather than flip-top cabinets as those may store two tools in one footprint but all of the accessory pieces still need homes... so you wind up with two cabinets anyways. From a space point of view the vertical stacking setup looks quite efficient but, when I sketched one out, I found I could only put a few tools on such shelves... I'm kinda short and I don't want to be reaching above my head for a moderately heavy thing. Nor do I want to frequently stand on a step stool while holding something in both hands.
    Exactly the same conclusion that I reached regarding the "space saving" of either the "flip tool" or the vertical stack/cabinet ideas -- I'm sure they DO function and "save space" for SOME guys' shops (depending on what array of machines/tools they have & how they use them) -- but it just didn't "fit" the tools I have, the way I work, or with my overall shop layout. Oh and yes I had the same intent with the drawers/storage underneath, idea was to keep all of the relevant "special tools" buts & pieces with the tool (router stuff with router table, sanding stuff with sander, etc) -- pretty much STILL what I intend to do, just need to get that "round tuit" and go on a drawer building binge (unfortunately other things are higher priorities at the moment: chiefly rearranging to make room for several large tools I've inherited }but not yet put in place} from my father: wood lathe, metal lathe, and big-ass vertical milling machine).

    The other thing I've done in my shop that looks similar to yours is I put the electrical outlets up high. Mine are higher than my roll-around cabinets, maybe half a foot higher than the BT3's tabletop. I had it wired when I moved in... each outlet is on its own 20amp circuit so I don't have to worry about overloading stuff when I use multiple tools (e.g. saw plus dust collector).
    Yes, I intentionally (purposefully & specifically PLANNED) my outlets & circuits... workshop has three different 20 amp outet/tool circuits (A, B, C -- easily distinguished by different color cover plates) and then a fourth for lighting, The circuits are "intermixed" throughout the shop: "C" is on the little "shorty" walls & the overhead (retractable) drop cord, "A" & "B" circuits are every other outlet (A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B, etc) along the two main/long walls, and spaced at 2 ft intervals -- overkill ? maybe, but I wanted power to be readily accessible regardless of where/how I rearranged the tools (besides the wire runs the length of the wall, so the extra cost is trivial just a few extra boxes & outlets -- they're NOT going to overload the circuit because they're NOT all actively pulling juice at the same time).
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    Also, yes I did put the outlets "up high" -- mid wall actually -- and the reasons for that can be best seen on the pics to the left and right.

    That gray board running around the middle is actually a separate board, screwed in and removable -- basically all my shop wiring is behind that and it serves as a sort of "raceway" (commercial electricians would balk at my use of Romex, and insist that conduit would have been better, but I didn't want conduit ON the walls {don't want that **** sticking out}, and running conduit INSIDE the walls would have been a royal pain... for my skillset anyway).

    But also, my shop walls are 10 ft high (which is sweet!), problem is that most wall paneling -- and I intended from the start to use plywood (yup ALL the walls are plywood -- NO sheetrock/drywall -- the upper half is just painted white), so rather than buy expensive 10 ft sheets, I just bought 4x8 I split them (actually I had the lumberyard cut the panels down to 4x4 for me, in part because at the time I didn't have a truck, just an SUV, and it couldn't haul full 4x8 sheets), the two "gray" boards at mid & top plus the two 4 ft panels = my ~10 ft wall height.

    It also meant that I didn't have to worry about "hitting" any wiring with any screws or nails (or whatever) on either the lower OR the upper walls. The gray boards act like the "red line" painted on my BT3100 -- they're a "don't go there" kind of thing. Sets me free (especially with plywood instead of sheetrock) to hang or mount whatever I want WHEREVER I want in the shop -- cabinets, whatever -- I can readily screw into the panels, no need to try to find the studs or be limited by them (now for certain HEAVY things, like lumber racking, I DO locate & use the studs but I probably wouldn't have to).


    I've lined two full walls with plain wall cabinets too as most of my "bench top" tools fit/park underneath them easily; these hold magazines/books, safety gear (push sticks, ear muffs, masks, etc), my Ridgid and Ryobi cordless tools, and one is hardware+glue stuff.
    Yup, same here... the combination of the tools on mobile base cabinets, and the wall cabinets (all on French Cleats) allow me to maximize storage/use, and yet rearrange things over time -- shift them around however I might want.


    Like you, my shop is a separate detached building. The prior owners of this outside-corner-lot house liked their toys: a dune buggy on a trailer and a speedboat on a trailer. So they added a 2-car wide but much deeper than normal "storage building" in the back yard, supplementing the regular 2-car garage attached to the front of the house. It's why I bought this house when it came on the market. The front half is still garage for me, the back half is the shop. The walls are insulated and covered in normal wallboard... but there is no ceiling - it's open to the uninsulated rafters and roof so it still gets doggone hot out there sometimes. I haven't figured out a good way to insulate and finish the ceiling... I don't want to put a normal wallboard ceiling on the 2x4s that cross the room as I use those for some lumber storage... and I don't want the ceiling (and lights) to be that low anyway. Right now I'm leaning towards a sort-of vaulted ceiling where the center section is a few feet higher than the cross-beams and would attach to the existing secondary cross-beams of the roof trusses. I'd let the outer portions slope with the bottom of the roof. We'll see. I want to put A/C out there soon. While I'm at itClick image for larger version  Name:	100_0102.JPG Views:	1 Size:	106.8 KB ID:	833764, I want to win the lottery too...
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    Ah, here maybe my experience & choices might (possibly?) be of some help... or maybe not, maybe just "food for thought."

    Pic at left shows the garage-side of the shop addition -- including BTW the 5 ft wide opening into the garage (originally intended to close off with bi-fold doors to reduce dust travel, but "round tuit" again) -- anyway, you can see that I did the "cathedral" ceiling approach, just rafters and two collar ties 4 ft apart and 4 ft from the end walls (12 ft deep) -- they LOOK like "big beams" but they're just 2x8's that have been boxed out to be "faux" beams (worked out really well in that it gave me convenience way to install overhead lights, AND overhead outlets/retractable power, etc).

    For the ceiling I decided to go with ceiling panel things, and used the CeilingLink stuff (http://www.ceilinglink.com/).

    Which worked well enough, certainly a LOT easier to do "single handed" than trying to sheetrock the ceiling (especially in the workshop with the off angles, tight quarters, beams, etc)


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    Also used the same system in the garage (see pic at left) -- but opted there to use furring strips & run panels perpendicular, rather than attach directly to trusses. (there IS still "storage" in garage attic -- accessed via a pull down stair at the "workbench" end of the garage -- not sure if that's referred to as the "front" or the "back" of the garage -- opposite end from the garage door anyway).

    CHIEF goal at the time was that, since having had the "Hot Dawg" heater installed (see pic at right, gray ceiling mounted box in middle of picture) -- I wanted, NO, scratch that... I ABSOLUTELY NEEDED, to get the ceilings insulated ASAP -- not only to stop heat loss (and also by insulating keep the whole place a LOT cooler in summer), but to prevent the heated roof from melting the snow off and creating "ice dams" on the roof overhangs (that ****'ll destroy your roof really fast); and yet I hated the idea of just having fiberglass insulation (even with the backing) as ceiling (white ceiling also BRIGHTENED up garage & shop tremendously).

    Plus, again, I needed to do all of this single handed and "bit by bit" (evenings, weekends, etc) so going with the "ceiling panel" just worked really well with that, also allowed me to shift all the CRAP in the garage/shop around instead of having to move it all out (plus of course no taping or mudding, no priming or painting needed, etc -- ceiling panel stuff is pretty much "no muss, no fuss"). Also, if any of the panels get damaged, they're easily replaced. Plus when you have no truck well much easier to pickup boxes that are 2ft x 4ft, rather than 4x8 sheetrock. (But of course, to add some irony... shortly after I finished all of the above, I bought... a pickup truck. LOL, go figure).


    p.s. It's pretty satisfying to get organized, isn't it?
    Absolutely... trick is to KEEP things "clean & organized" (maybe not quite to "Rod Kirby" level, but towards that ideal) -- and not let the clutter build up to the extent that I did.

    In my (rationalizing "excuse" making) defense, I was VERY busy with a whole host of other things during the past decade, and the shop & woodworking (other than some trivial things) took a backseat... but now, with current & future planned projects (maybe I'll reveal more on that soon here), well I not only need to make the space for the "new" (to me) equipment I'm inheriting from dad, like the lathes & milling machine, but I also need the whole shop & garage to be well-organized, clean & "professional."

    Plus, yes indeed it is SATISFYING even sort of "nourishing" to the soul to both "clean house" (get rid of 18+ years of detritus -- amazing the GARBAGE you accumulate!) and to "put everything in order" -- a place for everything and everything in it's place.


    BTW I'm far from done, got the dust collection in place -- something I've wanted to do for a LONG time (need to write up & post the pics for the "Episode #3" on that as I think I have some things that will be both "unique" or at least of some interest to other guys on that {i.e. "Look ma, NO blast gates!" etc}) -- but I also need to install the "hard line" air system (bought a RapidAir kit probably about 8 years ago, just never installed it!... the kit was missing the "round tuit" you see).

    CHEERS!

    P.S. Thanks for the long & thoughtful reply -- that's what I came here and started posting again for -- this isn't (or at least not just/only) about "ego stroking/humble bragging" (me with my "toy" workshop) rather it's to give back to the community and ideally to get some feedback in return. (Which of course is only evident if people actually comment/reply.) So again, and sincerely: THANKS!

    EDIT: Added link to tour of Rod Kirby's shop (i.e. https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/sa...by-s-shop-tour) -- just in case there are people here who haven't seen that "Taj Mahal" of small(ish) workshops.
    Last edited by WLee; 07-10-2018, 04:24 PM.

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