The post I did not want to make

[LCHIEN]

I know the right thing is to make it easy on Sam...
But the skinflint in me wonders if there isn't a better way...
How much data volume do we have? in GBytes.

A couple of 200GB drives and a registered copy of Second Copy automatic drive mirroring software could be paid for with a few months of backup fees. We have 6 months to implement it before we have to start paying.

[Lefty]

1. I think the hosting company was incompetent in erasing the drive, but at least honest enough to admit it. That's gotta count for something.

b. I'd say bag the idea of paying them that kind of money to back up. It's too much to pay. As others have said, let's just upload our stuff again if necessary. If you have the means, host your pictures elsewhere.

iii. You might consider making them back up for a year for free as penance... or just move on.

That's my $.02

[KomaToast]

$80.00 per month for backup is a little much.

Storage space is cheap, 200GB $100.00 delivered.
A lot cheaper than the 40GB I paid $250.00 for in 2000.

A weekly backup should be suffice.
Even if done manually a few mouse clicks on a Sunday night before going to bed would save $20.00 each time.

Automated would be even better.
How much can the software be?

The RAM was bad and it took them 4 days to find/fix it.
Maybe not all machines are like mine but it gives an error message/beeps when booting with a bad stick of RAM.
How hard can it be?

They format the storage drive and now want to charge you for backup.
Why was the drive formatted in the first place?
Did they do that before finding out it was the bad RAM?
Why didn't they backup the drive before formatting it?
Can they be trusted to do the backup right?

200GB is a lot of space and can be had for a little more than they want for a months backup service.

Who do you trust with your stuff?

Keith

[markmt]

Mr. Condor, you are the one who makes the decisions. As a person who has benefited from all the members of this forum, You call it I will back your decision. PERIOD. I am not a donor yet, but you tell us the cost an pass the hat, everyone can give what they can.

Good Luck and God Bless
Mark Taylor

[Stytooner]

I may not be getting the whole picture, but there can't be THAT many pictures posted on the site. Will the automatic backups include the database too? Who will benefit the most from the failings of late on the hosters part? Why did it take so long to change out the ram? Was Gunther the Technician on a weekend bender in Tiauana? Why do rice crispies make that noise?
I'm in the group that expects more from folks that you are already paying premium fees to. A tape back up, or a mirrored HD should be done as a routine if they are in the biz. I can understand a one time setup fee, but $80 a month for something the machine will do on its own is too high. Especially when the need to implement this is obviously the fault of the idiot that formatted.....FORMATTED the flippin HD.
We screwed up so to keep us from affecting you the next time we do it, it will cost you. That ain't no way to run a railroad, but I'm no engineer.
It just leaves me with a bad taste to give them more money for their blunder. Perhaps a couple of members with DSL or higher connections could do this for very little.
Ultimately, Sam, you are in the drivers seat. You can take the toll road, which seems under construction most of the time, or you can take the surface streets. Your expense account will be covered with either choice.
Thanks for letting me vent. I have indeed lost a little "karma" as Lee mentioned.
On a better note, it certainly is nice to be able to discuss these things with you guys. Thanks Sam, for everything you do.

[kwgeorge]

After thinking about this a bit, to me it makes more sense to go with a hardware solution with the amount of money they are asking for a tape backup service. If the computer does not have a RAID controller one could be purchased and installed with more hard drives. With this the hardware would do all the work and on failure it is very simple fail over the drives. Initial investment is less than a year of the proposed backup service and non-recurring.

[WoodRook]

I'm new here, haven't yet contributed but that will change once I purchase my BT3100. I agree with those that believe $80/month is an excessive fee. There's got to be a better vendor out there, someone more willing to provide a quality service to a paying customer. The hardware options also sound interesting but not being a computer techie I don't really have a good feel for what's involved. Regardless, I will support this site in the method chosen by Sam.

Thanks for a great resource!

[LCHIEN]

A couple of quick comments on the past few posts:
A RAID arrangement will fix a few errors but will not compensate for one drive being erased/reformated.
Software called Second Copy (http://www.centered.com/) running on the server will back up all files on a specifed file path to another drive on the network, for this purpose it could be a second drive. There's other similar software, but I have used this one. You specify how often you want it to compare directories (every 5 minutes maybe) and it will copy any new or changed files to the backup directory.
It may also be possible to run this on someone's home machine w/DSL to back up files on the an internet server, as it can push or pull files.
It's like $30 for a license.

[Bruce Cohen]

Sam,

I consider myself agreeing wirh borh "camps", but you're the guy in the driver's seat and since I've been a member, you have always made the right choice. Even if at the time I was in disagreememt with you.

As most IT guys (gals), bike and motorcycle riders know, "it's not if you're going to wipe out, it's when", and even for such a "minor" situation as posted pics and art, which by the way, if all of us are privy to viewing it, there's absolutely NO WAY we should make it a sole responsibility of that poster, I feel that you should pay the monthly fee and we should pick up the tab.

There is no way I can even begin to pur a price on all the enjoyment and information and money saved by no screwing up thats a direct result of this forum.

You're doing an excellent job (something none of us could probably doe or want to, so what ever you say GOES. (caps intentional).

Bruce

[Scottydont]

That header scared me too! First off, given the neglegence the hosting company showed, their offer is not nearly adequate compensation IMHO. I am curious if they provided a SLA in their hosting terms? I am suprised the were not using RAID (Redundant Array of Indepedent Disks, fancy for multiple hard drives.) As for back ups, the images I have put up here are also on my PC and members are welcome to email if they need them. I think it's more of an anoyance rather than a critical issue. I am not in favor of you (Sam) taking on any more admin. responsibility than you currently have. I would support (finacially) doing a tape back up on a regular basis but is monthy really neccesary? Given the cost, maybe quarterly would be more adequate. Here is my reasoning. Logic would dictate that current pics could be more easily replaced if there were a problem as opposed to older posts were the original forum poster may not have the pic or may no longer be a participating member.

The do agree with some of the comments about most forums require the user to host their pictures and link them to the forum. The forum provided upload is a convenience for some members but I am not sure it worth it if it results in $80 a month to back it up. Given the fact there are many free hosting services for pics for individual users, it might be time to weigh in on wether we want to maintain that service?

Just my two bits.

[rabmaxx]

Sam, I am in line with SMC33A and Dedaddy but you are doing the arbitrating and you have the lnowledge so I am with whatever decision you make.

When the dust settles let us know the extra cost and I will definitely have a check for you.


Ron Mayes

[RodKirby]

Sam - how about a poll on this?

I also have a problem with $80/month for backup. Loring's solution sounds good...

[gerti]

Poooh... Dodged a bullet here, thought Sam was going to say he quits...

Thankfully it were just the images. It would have been a shame to loose the boards.

OK, my 2 cents: I don't like tape backups. They have a way of failing when you need them. Plus it'll require meticulous work by the provider to perform them regularly, make sure they can be read (!!!) and store them in a safe place, preferably off site. Given that the company in question has not shown much competence in this matter and that $80/month is rather a lot of money (that is 3 BT3Ks a year!), I think other alternatives should be investigated.

I think an online-offsite backup would be the way to go. A system that uses software like rsync to pull of the changes every night would do the trick.

Sam, how much data does the entire system have (or better did it have)? I have a few dozen gigabyte available on a RAID 1 (3 disk) system.

Gerd

[LCHIEN]

Tape backups are iffy. You have to assume that the guy is really doing them and its hard to check 3000 miles away and when you do need them will they be readable or even exist?

Assuming some sort of drive mirroring would work,
you need to decide about on-site or offsite.

Offsite being done incrementally is OK, but you have to trust that the person doing it is doing it OK. And if you need to restore it, it could take days to restore 100 GB. But this does protect against more catastrophic server failure modes.

Local to the server is OK - 100's of GB can be restored relatively quickly. It wil protect against common memory failure, drive failure, even a tech accidentally formatting your disk, but it will not protect against the less likely but possible total loss of server due to fire, earthquake, floods, sabotage, business malfeasance (going out of business with out a trace when the boss liquidates assets including your server and splits the country) etc. It's aeasy to make spot checks to see that its working.

Maybe both together can work.

[boblon]

First, let me say I will do what I can to support whatever decision Sam makes, and it IS his decision. However....

I have to agree with the syncing of the file set on Sams machine crowd. That is assuming their is software that will work with the type of connection Sam has to the file set.

The initial pull would take a while, but after that it shouldn't be too bad.

I also don't know what type of internet connection Sam has. If he's on a dial up I would much rather help pay to get Sam a decent connection (DSL, Cable modem, whatever) that give it to these folks whose attention to detail is dubious.

Just my two cents....to be followed by my folding cash.

BobL.