Poll on SawStop

[twistsol]

Up until the recent threads on the lawsuit I was seriously considering a SawStop when I upgrade, but that still won't be for a while anyway. The cost isn't a big deal, I can afford it but I don't waste money just because it's cool and I want it.

I am, however, adamantly opposed to the government and courts getting involved. The product needs to compete in the marketplace on it's own merits, not government mandates or the threat of lawsuits.

Very few tools are inherently unsafe. People either don't know what they are doing, or get complacent and careless, or just have a momentary lapse of intellectual power leading to an injury causing mistake. I've broken the safety rules numerous times myself believing I know better and so far I've been lucky. If I get hurt, I know it's my own dumb fault.

[smorris]

I'm starting to think about a new saw. The practices of the saws inventor don't hold much interest for me. Sawstop is in the top 2 of the saws I'm looking at. The reviews of it are uniformly very good for fit, finish and operation, that is what interests me. The only concern I have is will they be around in 10 years when I need parts.

[Knottscott]

First off, if I'm not mistaken, Steve Gass isn't a physicist? I didn't think he was a lawyer.

Anyway, can someone enlighten me what he's done to "push lawsuits"? He just testified in this latest lawsuit. I'm not sure if testifying in a civil lawsuit is required by law if you're subpoenaed, but I don't think I'd fault the guy for just testifying.

What I've read about TS lawsuits could very well be only "internet fact" that's twisted out of context or could have no true basis whatsoever, but I do hear about legal actions involving TS accidents on occasion with his name associated, which tends to just re-stir my original disdain for his attempts to mandate his technology. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, if true, I'd be interested to learn that he's had nothing to do with legal actions involving TS accidents.

[natausch]

My response is that table saws are about half as dangerous as band saws but ten times more common so who is the real killer in the woodshop?

[jspelbring]

Sawstop

I have the PCS. Why? Why not? If there is a way to do things safer, and I can swing the cost and/or trouble, then I will. Apart from the safety issue, my Sawstop is very well made, has excellent dust collection (again, safety - my lungs), and the riving knife and guard is very easy to use/add/remove. Overpriced? Yes. Buyers remorse? No.

As to the inventor, well, he IS a lawyer. Why is everyone surprised that he's money-grubbing and tenacious? Goes with the species.

The lawsuit - IMO, is bulls**t. Powered woodworking tools, and sharp chisels (DAMHIKT) are potentially dangerous tools. Risk goes with the hobby/profession.

[cwithboat]

Where is the "All of the above" choice? Or better yet, "Most of the above"

[LCHIEN]

Where is the "All of the above" choice? Or better yet, "Most of the above"

i said you could check all thay apply. If they all apply, check all of them except the 1st (that says you have the sawstop).

[radhak]

I (by sheer luck and the fact that I cheated on my job and was on CL on a very special day ) happen to own a Unisaw. For the type (hobby) and volume (low) of WW-ing I do , swapping it for any other TS would be a luxury I cannot afford, nor do I need. Swapping it for a Sawstop could only mean I hit a jackpot somewhere, at which point I would not be typing this here...

First off, if I'm not mistaken, Steve Gass isn't a physicist? I didn't think he was a lawyer.

Anyway, can someone enlighten me what he's done to "push lawsuits"? He just testified in this latest lawsuit. I'm not sure if testifying in a civil lawsuit is required by law if you're subpoenaed, but I don't think I'd fault the guy for just testifying.

Gass was a lawyer first, and a shark at that. He has done everything possible to create mistrust in his motives and actions - he demanded usurious royalty for himself; then he canvassed legislators for regulating himself into richness; he even 'predicted' that manufacturers were risking huge future lawsuits if they ignored his product - a very self-fulfilling prophecy!

I am only surprised at our judicial system; for all the jokes, I'd have thought an 'expert witness' is only eligible to testify if there's no conflict of interest. Not so here!

[crokett]

1. I don't like his business practices of attempting to force me to buy his technology. I don't like seat belt laws either. Not to say I don't wear one, I just think it should be optional.
2. Can't afford one even if I was in the market.
3. I learned woodworking on a naked saw and consider my current practices safe.
4. It would make me complacent. I'd stop using push sticks, etc.

[Gator95]

Main thing to me is cost vs. benefit. I could care less about the inventor. I've got a saw I like (Rigid 3550) and can't really justify the 2K to upgrade.

If I was very active in the shop maybe I'd go Sawstop, definately would if I was doing this for a living. But for the 3-4 hours a month my TS gets used, it's hard to justify the purchase.

I've also had more near-misses with the router than with the TS. With a bladeguard attached, using a sled or pushblocks, and splitter, pawls, and brain engaged I feel reasonably secure.

[smorris]

I'm always surprised when people say a Sawstop would make them more complacent about safety on their saw. If I get one I won't be retiring my pushsticks/blocks, taking off the blade guard and throwing it in a corner, etc. I wouldn't expect my safety practices to change in any way if for no other reason that a fired condition on that saw is an expensive proposition between the cartridge, blade and new underwear. I just think of it as a court of last resort safety device when something goes horribly wrong as sometimes happens.

[Richard in Smithville]

With a bladeguard attached, using a sled or pushblocks, and splitter, pawls, and brain engaged I feel reasonably secure.

How many injuries from a table saw is actually the fault of the saw? I know many people who have been woodworking for as long as I have been alive and they still have their fingers intact. Lucky? Perhaps, but in working with them I feel that they make their own "luck".

Now, I'm not knocking the technology, but I wonder if a sawstop really is the best thing since sliced bread?

[docrowan]

Don't know much about the SawStop other than what I've seen on Ask This Old House. But if I could add one to my BT3100 and it not affect operation or ease of use, I'd pay up to an extra $200 to add it. Since I know that's not possible, no dice.

[dbhost]

Don't know much about the SawStop other than what I've seen on Ask This Old House. But if I could add one to my BT3100 and it not affect operation or ease of use, I'd pay up to an extra $200 to add it. Since I know that's not possible, no dice.

Another reason that convinces me this is all about $$ and not really helping keep people safe. If he thought he could sell them, he would be making retrofits for existing saws...

So I guess that begs the question. Isn't Gass and SawStop partially responsible for not making their technology more readily available in a DIY market price point?

[gsmittle]

So I guess that begs the question. Isn't Gass and SawStop partially responsible for not making their technology more readily available in a DIY market price point?

Hmmmmm. Gass does own the patent on the technology, so he can charge what he darn well pleases. I would assume he's still recouping the cost of the new tooling, electronics, etc. that go into making the brake mechanism.

OTOH, one would think he'd sell far more at a lower price point.

I think if I were Delta, PM, et al that I'd have a hard time with another company radically modifying my saw. At the very least, a SS retrofit should void the warranty.

I've made a nuisance of myself at my local WoodCraft, drooling over—er, checking out, the SawStop. It seems to me (remember I'm still a relative beginner with a vintage BT3100) to be at least as well-constructed a saw as the comparable Steel City, PowerMatic, etc.

Personally, if I had the money/room/time, I'd be using one right now. If I were in the business, it would be a no-brainer. ONE ER trip saved would pay for the saw, not only in medical bills, but time missed from work (you self-employed guys know that if you're not working, you're not getting paid) for healing, physical therapy, etc.

Like darn near all of us, I treat my tools with respect and run down the mental checklist before every operation ("push sticks in easy reach, fence properly secured, does anything not look/sound/feel right, eye & ear protection, shop vac on" etc.) However, it only takes a millisecond's inattention for something to happen. The Shark Guard has saved my fingers no less than four times; not because I was deliberately unsafe, but because I lost focus for a second.

What REALLY chaps my saddle is lawsuits that assert that the SawStop technology should be on saws built BEFORE the SawStop was invented. That's like saying a '73 Pinto should have had air bags back then because they're available now.

I'll step off the soapbox now…

g.