Poll on SawStop

[vaking]

Leaving alone Steve Gass and his personality I can say the following:
1. All the stationary tools in my shop are not worth the cost of sawstop alone. Woodworking is my hobby and I will not spend such obscene money on it.
2. When I started woodworking table saw was my first big tool and I used it for everything. Now that I have band saw and miter saw - table saw is used a lot less. I use mostly band saw for ripping, miter for cross cutting and table saw gets used mostly for sheet goods. It is no longer such an essential tool for me as it used to be, it is just one of many. Sawstop is much too costly to be one of many.
3. Every tool introduces some risk. Table saw has risks other than sticking your fingers in the blade, such as kick-back. Sticking your fingers in the blade present a clear danger, kick-back is not as clear and harder to forsee. Because of this I am more concerned with kick-back then with the spinning blade. An open blade on the band saw is even more intimidating than blade on the table saw and for this exact reason there are less accidents with band saws than with table saws. We are usually getting into accidents that involve things we do not respect, saw blade has my respect so this is not likely to be the source of accident for me.
4. At this moment I have a saw that is more than adequate for my needs and I paid a fraction of cost of a sawstop for it. If it breaks - I will probably replaces it with something in the same price/performance category.

[LCHIEN]

So the saw protects only the stupid, not the smart users.

so suppose the saw makers countersue Gass for violating the laws of nature... ensuring survival of the stupidist.

[cwsmith]

I'm a relatively new table saw owner, having my first only three or four years now. I'm currently 65 and have been using a RAS since 1974, which I've been very happy with. But I do love my BT3100-1 and it has all the features that I like.

But all that said, my concerns go back to when I was 14 and was working with my father when he cut off two fingers and severely damaged a third while using a table saw. Obviously that put me off table saws for quite some time.

So, the question in my mind would be whether I would have bought a Saw Stop a few years ago if it had been available. The fact is, NO I would not have. I looked at a lot of saws and did a heck of a lot of reading and finally decided on the BT. I liked its features and it's size and I like the fact that the saw had a tremendous following. Of course the price was part of the decision too, but mostly it was the features.

Any saw can be dangerous and I'm not one for heavily relying on technology to save me from my own ignorance... it's always best to educate oneself and don't do stupid things. So, my choice was and still would be effected by features and price and certainly I'm not ready for any other saw.

CWS

[Ed62]

My BT3000 does the job just fine for me, so I'm not ready to buy another one. I also put down that cost was a factor because my wife told me last year that if I wanted one, just go out and get it. I did consider it, but decided there were better places to spend money. Hope I don't get proven wrong on that one.

I respect the saw, and know what it can do. So I try to be very careful when using it. That doesn't mean an accident can't happen. I guess I'm playing the odds against losing a finger or two.

Ed

[guycox]

First off, if I'm not mistaken, Steve Gass isn't a physicist? I didn't think he was a lawyer.

Anyway, can someone enlighten me what he's done to "push lawsuits"? He just testified in this latest lawsuit. I'm not sure if testifying in a civil lawsuit is required by law if you're subpoenaed, but I don't think I'd fault the guy for just testifying.

Patent Attorney with a degree in Physics..

[herb fellows]

Disregarding the merits or lack thereof of the lawsuit and Mr Gass's participation in it, I believe the following:

1) I think it works. I know 2 people who own them and they are confident.
2) If you think this will make you more careless, because you think you're protected, you are mistaken. I really don't think anybody falls into that category though, I think this is a myth. Some people may think this will make them complacent, but in reality, when that blade is spinning, you are going to be paying attention!
3) The 'royalty' or licensing fee or whatever you want to call it, by my understanding, was supposed to max out at 8% of wholesale cost.Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. So maybe on a $500 saw, about $250 wholesale, $20 in royalty fees.
4) I think the major companies decided to ignore the technology because they thought they could, and this would all go away.
They didn't count on Gass producing the saw himself, I think that threw them quite a curve.
Last (sorry for being so long winded here, but this really gets me going), remember, if Gass didn't produce the saw, nobody would have the option to have this protection now. That, essentially, was the plan of the major manufacturers, they were willing to deny anyone this safety measure.
I don't really think they had our best interests at heart when they turned him down.

[herb fellows]

i said you could check all thay apply. If they all apply, check all of them except the 1st (that says you have the sawstop).

Well, theoretically, you could reply 'I have a Sawstop' and 'I can't afford one:-)

[herb fellows]

Don't know much about the SawStop other than what I've seen on Ask This Old House. But if I could add one to my BT3100 and it not affect operation or ease of use, I'd pay up to an extra $200 to add it. Since I know that's not possible, no dice.

I think it is reasonable to assume that if the big companies adopted the technology, it could very possibly be done for $200, maybe $300, but they decided to not even give you an option to buy it.

[phi1l]

However, having seen the demo in person, I don't know whether a 100 # saw could endure the brake firing without flipping over on its back.

The strange thing is, do you really need to stop the saw blade? Wouldn't just retracting the blade work just as effectively? The demos I have seen show the blade being instantly retracted below the table as well as stopping the blade. .. (Other than it wouldn't require replacement of $60 piece of aluminum, of course.)

[Uncle Cracker]

(Other than it wouldn't require replacement of $60 piece of aluminum, of course.)

And the blade, too...

[dkerfoot]

The reasons I don't have one are threefold. Cost / not ready to upgrade are important. Right now, though, I work out of a 1-car garage, and my 21829 gives me a tiny footprint when folded up against the wall, which gives me the space to use other tools. If I do purchase another saw, (and I can work the space issue out) I will save up my money, and it WILL be a Sawstop. I like my fingers right where they are. That added bit of safety is worth the money.

Ditto for me. I'd love one,the cost would be a concern, but the space and portability are why I am a 21829'er.

[pecker]

OTOH, one would think he'd sell far more at a lower price point.


What REALLY chaps my saddle is lawsuits that assert that the SawStop technology should be on saws built BEFORE the SawStop was invented. That's like saying a '73 Pinto should have had air bags back then because they're available now.

g.

I predict someday SawStop will be sued for not producing a model that poor people can afford. Some enterprising law firm should be able to make a class action case for that.

[LCHIEN]

forcing cheaper, affordable tablesaws off the market will only result in a proliferation of the "Circular saw mounted under a piece of plywood" DIY table saws and then where will we be? Steven Gass will be richer and people will still be missing fingers.

[cgallery]

The strange thing is, do you really need to stop the saw blade? Wouldn't just retracting the blade work just as effectively? The demos I have seen show the blade being instantly retracted below the table as well as stopping the blade. .. (Other than it wouldn't require replacement of $60 piece of aluminum, of course.)

As I understand it, they (SawStop) convert the momentum in the spinning blade into energy that propels the blade/mechanism backwards and under the table.

I think it would be possible to design a "trunnion" similar to the one currently in the BT3K that keeps the motor mount/arbor/blade shroud, etc., under spring tension. If the sensor detects flesh, the power could get cut to the motor at the same time a latch is pulled by a solenoid that allows the spring to pull the blade under the table.

I'd imagine this type of design wouldn't add a lot of weight. It would add probably $50 to $100 in cost to beef the current mechanism up so it can withstand such a retraction.

Also note that the blade wouldn't have a brake. And you might receive a slightly deeper wound than the SawStop. OTOH, you wouldn't have to replace brakes or blades.

[Rand]

Imagine the lawsuit if somebody gets a defective saw-stop and cuts a finger off...