Cordless Tools, Ice Storm, Generator Usage

[leehljp]

We had an ice storm and electrical outage around town for 26 hours followed by temps in the teens. Our living room has a fire place with gas heater and no need for electricity, so we camped out in the living room/dining room. I also had a 20 year old (but new in box) Coleman propane 2 burner stove that I cooked on, and made coffee with (OLD percolator type). I learned some things during this 26 hour outage (and 32 hour internet/TV outage.)

I am strongly considering the Ryobi 6 battery charger/storage since I have 9 Ryobi 18V batteries. This ice storm's electrical outage and subsequent mid- teens freezing temps has shown me how valuable it is to have all the batteries charged. Most were charged. I ran through 3 batteries for lighting, I had a separate electronic battery bank that I occasionally used with my laptop - that I kept LOML's and my cell phones charged, along with our Apple watches, but the battery bank was down to 40% by the time the electricity came back on.

I am really considering a backup generator but I sure hate to buy a good gas powered generator that I only use once in 10 to 15 to 20 years. I probably won't be around in 20 years.

1. WHAT IS a good use for a gas powered generator other than once in 20-25 years power outages? This has me thinking and can't think of a good reason. If summer outage, how much food would I lose in the freezer? that is a minor point of the equation, but one to consider.

2. If Freezer/refirgerator is the only consideration, why size to consider?
But If I am going to keep a freezer running in the summer, then I need to be around to gas it up daily, therefore I will need to be able to run the AC, which means a 240 and 30-50 amp generator. I don't like that thought in price at my age (75).

3. At what point does it make sense to invest in a backup generator or even a small 5000W - 10000W generator? - If it is only used once in 10 to 20 years?

My nearest daughter is 2 hours away in normal weather, but that is an alternative to stay in bad weather. We almost went, but the line trucks started working in our area about 2 hours before our deadline to go.

Comments?

[dbhost]

We lose power here more frequently due to hurricanes. HOWEVER, due to fuel availability and usage, I am actually intentionally limiting to 2 1KW 4 stroke inverter generators. Enough to run the fridge, AND a small 5000 BTU window AC to keep one room in the house cool. The rest we will just wing it.

I don't want a huge one as the fuel is the problem. Keep enough fuel to run it, fuel goes bad. Hook up to gas, gas lines break in an emergency, or downright freeze up. But small generators I can go to the station that has ethanol free unleaded, fill up 4, 5 gallon tanks before the storm hits, add stabilizer, and have enough fuel to run me for about 2 weeks, INCLUDING my old liquid fuel / dual fuel Coleman stove...

Oh, if you are interested, I could go into how to take a shower in a grid failure. Just let me know. We did it last year and were comfortable.

On the heat front, I use a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy heater, with a wood stove fan kind of rigged to it, blows LOTS of hot air around, and runs on propane. Reasonably efficient. HOWEVER propane does produce humidity when it burns so there is that, and of course make up air...

During last years deep freeze of Texas, we managed sweat pants and T shirt level of comfort in the heated room...

[Jim Frye]

We almost specified a natural gas standby generator for the house when we contracted to have it built. At $6K to $8K, we decided against it. So far after 6 years we haven't had an outage. Our electric supply is all underground and appears to be well protected. At least, the gas fireplace will operate without power. If our next car is an EV, the issue will be resolved.

[capncarl]

Same as dbhosr, we in S Ga have our shares of hurricanes and tornadoes. No problem with ice storms in my life. It really doesn’t make a lot of sense having a generator for an outage every 20-25 years. I’ve needed a generator about every 5 years, and have had one for the past 15 yrs. Previously it was a used 6500 starting amp Craftsman. It was not intended for anything but a backup power supply to keep the freezers, a few lights and the well operational. After I purchased it I converted it or Propane to utilize the 4-5 20lb bbq grill cylinders I already owned, and scrounged up another 5-6 from our landfills free for all section. A few years ago I added a novel transfer switch to my hose called a GenerLink that the utility company installs by pulling the power meter and installing my GenerLink into the meter base and plugs the meter into the GenerLink. A nice permanent Legal installation that will handle up to a 50 amp generator ( I think) this allows me to connect the generator to the house legally and power some select appliances and with proper power rationing I can save my freezers, run the well pump and even run the electric water heater for showers…. And the shops air conditioner so we could get out of the heat. Mr Bro in law purchased a Rigid 8,500 starting, 6,800 running watts generator to hook up like mine but his utility supplier would not authorize it, so he gave it to me and had a whole house Generac unit installed. During Hurricane Michaels damage our areas power was off for several weeks. The same saying applies to generators, like spare belts for your BT saw and other spares, if you have it you probably won’t ever need to use it. My neighborhood is on the same power grid as the State Prison about 8 miles away, and like hospitals and other necessary services was brought back into service with only several days outage!

My recommendation for a generator is to get one! For people that have trouble with a stubborn ICE and it’s stupid starter rope it must be an electric start machine. If you have a propane tank for your house then you definitely want to get one that is multi-fuel or convert it to propane. NOTE converting to propane will also allow it to run on gasoline.
I like the GenerLink transfer switch but it adds another k to the bill and is not authorized in all utility providers . NOTE!!! Some utility providers install and rent t these devices!
The size of the generator is personal preferences. If I didn’t need to operate a well for household water I would probably purchased a 3,500 watt generator.

[LCHIEN]

I have considered a generator, often. But I don't get one... the reasons are

• storage - another thing to store and it can't be put on a high shelf
• Needs to be maintained - run frequently every month or so or it won't run when you want it to
• Gasoline goes bad after a while, yeah you can put Stabil in it. but that's another pain
• Uses a lot of gasoline when used. Goes through a tank in about 4-7 hours at 25 or 50% load is what I read for most of them. After a storm or disaster its usually hard finding a open, working gas station.
• Storing gasoline is another pain. Somewhat hazardous, you also have to rotate it so it doesn't go bad. Handling 5 gallon jerry cans of gas is not fun anymore at my age.
• Noise and ventilation - you are going to want to put it outside, then running wires and security issues get ugly. In a quiet, power out neighborhood, nothing advertises you have a generator like running it outside. You want to keep it running for the fridge but you can't leave. Portable generators are just that, easy to steal and both very desirable and vulnerable during a power outage.
• A portable unit of 1500-3000 Watts is barely enough to run the fridge, some lights and a charger for laptop or cell phones. No heat, no air conditioning.

So far these arguments have kept me from getting one. Considering how often we need it. In the last 30 years I can recall going without power for 24 hours or more just once - last February.

A 6, 8, or 10 kW natural gas unit with automatic or even just manual transfer switch, automatic start and self test and wireless connectivity for problems is much more desirable but now you are talking some big bucks for seldom use.

[capncarl]

A few more comments. Most people don’t need a generator, just like most people don’t need a firearm for home protection. It’s just a matter of what they think will make them feel safer. After owning a generator that could be used for some sort of home back up for 35 years I can say that I have more than broke even from the protection it has given us in 4 major outages. We have always had a large freezer full of garden vegetables from our gardens, and deer, ducks, dove, quail and hogs that were worth a lot of money to us. Insurance might have paid for it, but after deductibles I doubt it! The time spent during an outage is the longest time imaginable, like being broken down on the road with a car load of people for days! Nobody can do anything, nothing works, it’s dark and hot or cold. A portable generator probably won’t be able to help with the hot or cold and is hardly worth running just to keep the tv going but it can help after it gets dark .

I’ve already suggested not using gasoline, use propane.

My Bro in law has already had to use his whole house Generac generator 2 times in the 4 years it has been installed, each time using almost all of its 100 gallon propane tank. We have discussed how to manage his time/fuel because it seems they run the generator from the time the power goes off until it comes back on! After 4 years he had finally admitted that he can’t control the generator! That’s not user friendly!

A portable generator less that 10kw is not likely to be able to run a household central AC, the lock rotor amps are too high on the compressor. My 4 ton Rudd AC has 137 lock rotor amps! Newer ACs with inverter/variable speed, maybe.

For someone wanting a small generator for home use I would recommend a 2,000- 3,000 watt inverter generator, maybe Harbor Freight that will run on propane from your BBQ tank and a spare tank.

[capncarl]

Photo of GenerLink transfer switch. Even with a small portable generator I would recommend this device. If your utility provider has these it is set up like having a back yard Street light so the cost is nearly nothing.

.

[dbhost]

Just FWIW, I have 2 small, and I mean SMALL generators. A 900w, and a 1KW inverter generator. They were purchased honestly for camping purposes. The 900w is a 2 stroke and I hate it. The 1KW is a 4 stroke.

Either of them will run a mechanical 5K BTU window unit AC which is sufficient to keep a 10x12 guest bedroom nice and cold. Since it is just the wife, the dog, the cat and myself, this works. The inverter generator is way more than enough to run our fridge with safe power. And there is power to spare to run a trickle charger for my battery pack for my CPAP.

More power would be nice. There are plenty of options in the 3-6Kw range for propane run generators. ANd for fuel stability purposes, yes Propane is VERY MUCH preferred. However propane requires pressure differential to atomize fuel, And as temp drops, pressure drops. You need to keep the tank warm which is next to impossible in an ice storm. I tried using a borrowed 5Kw propane unit during last winters ice storm. No joy...

There are warmer blankets / thermostats that run auto when temps dip below XYZ deg, whatever it is, and should power fail, the tank should be warm enough to run the generator without freezing up.

[leehljp]

Thanks for the pick of the GenerLink photo. That is helpful to me as I can see how it works. Simple. Thanks.

I am still thinking of a 5000-9000 generator. I help with church builds and some Disaster Relief helps builds and it has just dawned on me how many times I/we go and could use an extra generator for a few days, even around our house or daughter's houses. - Once or twice a year. I love my battery tools and use them far more than my corded tools, but there are times I could use the corded tools more efficiently.

When I started this thread, I was thinking of my own power outage. We have a freezer and two refrigerators. As dbhost mentioned above, I think something to keep the freezer and refrigerators cold and a small one room AC would be beneficial for temporary (1 to 6) hour outages that happen, and then use it for the construction tools that I assist with.

I need to think about this. Your picts make it look simple to hook up.

[twistsol]

Ford is advertising their new Electric F150 can run a typical house for 3 days if fully charged, and up to 10 days if conservation is employed.

In our old house, We lost power frequently, probably 2 to 3 times a year for hours and once for a couple of days. I had a manual transfer switch installed and we had 4 or 6KW generator driven off the PTO of the tractor. It was connected to a few lighting circuits, the refrigerator, and the water heater and zone pumps to heat the house. The water heater was propane but was about 15 watts for electronics and 2.1 amps for the igniter.

[LCHIEN]

Ford F150 Hybrid with 7200 Watt $750 inverter option. demonstrated powering a house.

https://youtu.be/fPCi40bSRWc

[capncarl]

As portable generators go, the term “portable” is taken liberally by the manufacture’s. A 5000 watt generator with aprox 5hp gasoline motor and 5-6 gallon fuel tank is quite hard to move. Most manufacturers offer wheel kits, that’s nice of them. But they are difficult to store in a garage and if you have to go up steps it will require help with big muscles and a strong back, not a job your wife will like being asked to pitch in, Generators this size do not transport easily in cars either! We put my 5000 watt Craftsman in the back of a Honda CRV….. one time, it took 2 strong backs to get it in but it took 4 full grown weight lifters to get it out without tearing the car up! A pickup truck or trailer is in order, with the trailer bring the best choice! My new Rigid generator (13 hp Yamaha) is built like a hand truck and does move somewhat easier. I can load it in a trailer by myself, and it only takes 2 strong backs to load into a pickup truck. A 3000 watt generator is somewhat lighter but it is still awkward but can be loaded into an automobile with much grunting. This is good size for small construction sites and backyard projects.

That said, anyone seriously considering a generator for whatever purpose should look at its movability and storage and not just grab one because of price , and think about where you are going to store it. Just because it has wheels on it doesn’t mean it’s very portable!

photo of Rigid generator, IMO one of the most portable generators I’ve seen.

[leehljp]

How long will those propane bottles drive a 3000 watt generator, in general? Will a generator run about the same time with a propane bottle for the equivalent size/amount of gasoline?

I had not given much thought to propane until this thread started and it has been mentioned several times.

[capncarl]

I have not had to this generator, which is 6800/8500 watt under outage conditions. I have loaded it down with all house lights, refrigerator, freezer, shop ac and well for 3 hours and was satisfied it would handle this load. The propane tank sweat line showed half tank remaining. This tells me it would operate a good 5 hours under this condition. I would not run it like this except at a meal time, I would operate it and monitor the refrigerator and freezer to let it cycle off then shut off the generator to stretch the fuel I have on hand. To answer the question of how long a full propane 20 lb cylinder would operate a 3000 watt generator I would say 8 hours. That’s based on how long my 13hp engine should run compared to a 5hp engine. This could vary a lot if the 3000 watt generator was a modern inverter model or if it was a 1975 era Brigs & Stratton 5 hp.

When I first converted the 10 hp engine on the 5000watt Craftsman generator from gasoline to propane I was really surprised in the results. This age of this machine was unknown, but I guesstimated it was early 1990s. It cranked on the 3rd,4th,5th pull, depending on how much you really needed it! It was loud and shrill sounding but ran smooth. The conversion was a US Carburetion Motor Snorkel device that easily installed in 15 minutes. On propane it immediately cranked on the first pull, ran quieter without the shrill noise. I couldn’t tell any difference in how it handled the load but it did not operate as long on a cylinder of propane as the Rigid with the 13hp overhead valve engine did. During Hurricane Michael it consumed 4 of my 10 propane cylinders in mine and neighbors usage. ( it was trailered to several houses to operate refrigerators/freezers).

[capncarl]

I also have a Honda 1000watt generator purchased in the 1980s and is worn out! But still operates fine considering how limited it is. It will operate a single freeze or a refrigerator or some lights. A relative was using it during Hurricane Michael, their outage was over 2 weeks. They couldn’t grasp how to rotate its usage to conserve fuel, and the day their power was restored they contacted me and told me the Honda died. They had pulled extension cords to the refrigerator, and another to the freezer, one in the living room for a couple of fans and table lamps. The had also plugged the coffee maker into the refrigerator extension cord, Everything was plugged into the generator at the same time with no concern to what was running, I couldn’t believe that generator would operate all of this at one time, much less continuous for 2 weeks. At least they turned it off at bed time. When they brought it back dead I almost tossed it in the garbage but checked and found a 10 amp breaker tripped. It cranked, ran and generated fine! Moral to this story is don’t loan anything out that you expect to get back in usable condition!

[dbhost]

From the Sportsman Generator website, their 3500w inverter dual fuel gasoline / propane model will run 12 hrs on 20lbs of propane or 10 hours on a fill up of gasoline at 50% load.

The gasoline tank is 3.2 gallons. If the conversion tables are right 20lbs of propane is the same BTUs as 5 gallons of gasoline.

So no.. But its close-ish.

[capncarl]

Gasoline = $.96 per hr to propane @$1.66 per hr. . Much cheaper on gasoline, but propane stores for years, and is very convenient. If you already have a home propane tank you are probably getting a much better price/lb. Even at that cost difference I’d much prefer propane for home use to keep from having to store any quantities of gasoline.

[capncarl]

I look at a back up generator as a luxury to have around to make things nicer when things go bad. It is hard to justify having one, but after you do need one and don’t have one it starts you thinking. Like a spare tire on an automobile, I can’t think of the last time I’ve used one, but I’ve replaced every one on my autos every 3rd tire replacement.