Ever wonder why we just toss broken stuff?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20914
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Ever wonder why we just toss broken stuff?

    I had this B&D Firestorm FS1202ID impact driver, old enough to have NiCd battery packs.
    It has 2 packs and a charger and worked well driving a lot of lag screws many years ago but the NiCd died some time back.
    So its just been sitting there in its nice plastic case collecting dust, So I'm cleaning up wondering why I have this.

    So I look at it. The tool as far as I know is OK. the batteries definitely too old. A spare workign drill driver might be nice.

    Check Batteries Plus they want about $50 bucks to rebuild the ten-cell packs with NiCd or NiMH. A bit rich
    I check the charger but the LED does not light. Hmmm. Open it up and its transformer is dead - no output. Look around on the internet eBay sellers have full complete NiMH packs for $15 and NiMH chargers for $15. Still $30 sounds a bit more than I want to spend and it would still only be NiMH, not Lithium.

    So I figure I could run it off Li-Ion - three cells would be 11.2 to 12.6 volts probably adequate for a 12 V motor.
    I have some 18650 cells. So I got a three cell holder on a lark for a few bucks. figuring I'd cannibalize a pack, and recharge the batteries in my 18650 charger.

    Well, I wired the pack for series and pulled the connector from the battery and plug the whole shebang into the tool to see how well it works. Well, it doesn't. My wiring is good and has voltage at the terminals so I open the drill driver... it's a motor and a variable speed switch and Transistor. So you can't get the motor and you can't get the switch assy with transistor eReplacements says they are discontinued.

    So I have a bad tool and a bad charger and two bad battery packs. If I had known this I would have thrown it all away years ago. Not worth my time.

    I put the tool back together and now it works. Go Figure.
    Maybe tomorrow I'll continue with plan B and Mount the cell holder in or on the old battery pack.

    No wonder nobody fixes stuff anymore.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-31-2022, 02:54 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • dbhost
    Slow and steady
    • Apr 2008
    • 9209
    • League City, Texas
    • Ryobi BT3100

    #2
    Planned obsolescence is also planned landfill clogging. Things, even very large, very expensive things, are intentionally designed and built to not be repaired economically.

    For example I think the last Automobiles that were designed to be truly owner maintained / repaired were the pre emmissions Ford Maverick, AMC Hornet, Chevrolet Nova, and Dodge Dart / Plymouth Valiant, each with their respective inline / slant 6 engines.

    And mind you, those vehicles honestly were designed and built to last maybe 5 to 7 years. just long enough to get into another new car.

    Nobody repairs televisions any more. The proliferation of TV / Radio repair shops that were at least 2 in every town when I grew up is long gone.

    And tools. Compare a 1970s B&D circular saw to a modern one, and you tell me which one was designed with repair in mind...

    It's not that people don't want to repair, and reuse things, it is that things are being made to break and be thrown out. And that is an absolute disgrace.
    Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

    Comment

    • twistsol
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2002
      • 2893
      • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
      • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

      #3
      Another issue I've found is the integration of computers with stuff that really doesn't need it. I just scrapped a $2000 elliptical, that I'd used for hundreds if not thousands of hours and it had no mechanical problems at all. The issue was that the Windows CE 6.0 controller would no longer boot and a new console for it would have been more than the original cost of the elliptical. The controller served two basic functions, control incline and control resistance. It also added a bunch of useless features like the ability to display your walk through London or Paris, calculated calorie burn incorrectly, or provide inaccurate heart rate info, often either 1/2 or 2x your actual heart rate when measured against an accurate monitor. The controller was also nearly obsolete when it was purchased new.

      Shopsmith introduced a digital variable resistance motor for their tools and all the problems associated with it have to do with the controller failing or giving invalid error messages. The computer won't let you turn on your 4500 drill press. Compare that to the mechanical speed system designed 70+ years ago, the only advantage it provides is a wider range of speeds. The only issues with that are worn belts and failure to lubricate properly. Machines that have sat outside behind a garage for 30 years are able to be restored with a few dollars in parts and some rust remover.

      The main computer in my 2011 Volvo failed and made the car either perform poorly, or it couldn't even be driven. Mechanics couldn't figure out the problem because the computer was sending random errors to diagnostic module. 140,000 miles and the car runs perfectly when the computer lets it.

      Cars are a fashion statement now. A $100k Mercedes isn't going to last much if any longer than a $30k Nissan.

      Originally posted by dbhost
      It's not that people don't want to repair, and reuse things, it is that things are being made to break and be thrown out. And that is an absolute disgrace.
      That is our own fault. Nobody will spend $1500 on a Kirby vacuum that will last a lifetime and then some, but they'll drop $300-$500 on a disposable plastic Shark or Dyson over and over again.
      Chr's
      __________
      An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
      A moral man does it.

      Comment


      • dbhost

        dbhost
        commented
        Editing a comment
        I have a 1990s Panasonic that was built every bit as well as a modern Kirby. If I had to buy a new vacuum, I'd try to find a Rainbow if they still sell those carpet bongs... However due to allergies in my family we are actively working on not needing a vacuum. But I get your point...

        Totally agree on the excessive computer integration. While I love my Fire Edition TV, I would MUCH rather have a high quality TV, with a FireTV stick so that when the FireTV becomes obsolete I just swap out to a newer stick...
        Last edited by dbhost; 01-31-2022, 11:10 AM.
    • leehljp
      Just me
      • Dec 2002
      • 8429
      • Tunica, MS
      • BT3000/3100

      #4
      Back in '95 or '96, We were in Japan and of course all Japanese programs and news were in Japanese, so when there was an English version or news script on, we listened regardless of the subject. Either Grove or Otinelli (SP?) of Intel and Bill Gates were on and discussing Computer technology and the doubling of computer power and technology every 18 months or so. LOML was listening on the side. Gates mentioned: "That is why we intentionally program and build a computer with an 18 month to 2 year planned obsolescence. Of course, you can run a computer longer than that, but it will not run up to date software programs (now we say 'apps'). But we do expect people to upgrade their computers with new ones every 18 months to 2 years to stay current."

      LOML was listening and came unglued, yelled at Gates on the TV: "YOU ACTUALLY EXPECT US TO BUY A NEW COMPUTER EVERY 18 MONTHS AND THROW AWAY THE OLD ONE?"
      She never liked Windows after that! I am glad she wasn't yelling at me!
      Hank Lee

      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

      Comment

      • leehljp
        Just me
        • Dec 2002
        • 8429
        • Tunica, MS
        • BT3000/3100

        #5
        Originally posted by dbhost
        Planned obsolescence is also planned landfill clogging. Things, even very large, very expensive things, are intentionally designed and built to not be repaired economically.

        For example I think the last Automobiles that were designed to be truly owner maintained / repaired were the pre emmissions Ford Maverick, AMC Hornet, Chevrolet Nova, and Dodge Dart / Plymouth Valiant, each with their respective inline / slant 6 engines.

        And mind you, those vehicles honestly were designed and built to last maybe 5 to 7 years. just long enough to get into another new car.
        .
        I bought a used 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid in 2012 with 70,000 miles on it. 10 years later and it has 397,000 miles and runs and rides great. 33.5 - 34 MPG even now. 3000+ miles per quart of oil. I hope to get 500,000 miles, if possible. I don't baby it, but I don't push it hard.

        • Replaced radiator fan once,
        • Spark plugs once
        • Brakes once
        • 12V Battery once
        • Cleaned Throttle Body once (caught me by surprise, but not too difficult)
        Brakes, Battery, Throttle Body required Resetting with my Code Reader, and it was OK again.

        Of Course, numerous oil changes, use full synthetic 0-20 oil, change oil every 6000 to 8000 miles, Usually drive Michelin 80,000 - 90,000 mile tires. On the third set of those now.

        ANOTHER SUBJECT for extending the life of engines: I read recently that the most wear in the average automobile engine occurs upon start up until the oil is circulating well (except in dusty-farm situations). That is why many manufacturers recommend 0-20 or 0-16, so that the oil will circulate faster. If the most wear is during start up, thinner is better.
        Last edited by leehljp; 01-31-2022, 11:03 AM.
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

        Comment


        • dbhost

          dbhost
          commented
          Editing a comment
          You missed the specific cars / timeframe I was referring to. Early 70s, when the average car was pretty much used up by 100K miles and 5 years... Modern Toyotas, Hondas etc... heck even mid 70s Toyotas and Hondas were a direct contrary point to this. I had a 1976 Toyota Celica in college that ran for 458K miles before I sold it still running strong.

        • capncarl
          capncarl commented
          Editing a comment
          Lee, in the late 70s I followed that theory that the starting of an automobile engine caused 90% of its wear. I built a 2 quart hydraulic accumulator for engine oil and installed it in my 1960s Austin Healey sprite powered by a 13B Mazda rotary engine for SCCA club racing. It worked great. Not so much my racing success though. I see now that a company, Accusump sells a carbon copy of my device. It should be on every auto sold and would probably extend engine life 3 fold. Turbocharged engines would definitely benefit from this device!
      • cwsmith
        Veteran Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 2737
        • NY Southern Tier, USA.
        • BT3100-1

        #6
        I think the newest power tool I have is the Ridgid JobMax with it's interchangeable heads. The oldest is a Sears Companion 3/8 bronze-solid bearing drill from around 1967. The only tool was a lawnmower which I couldn't give away. I did have an old B&D driver that the NiCads turned worthless. I gave that to a friend who used it as part of a driver for an adjustable mobil antenna system. My best circular saw is a 7" Craftsman from around 1970, which fortunately takes 7-14" blaces just fine. My favorite tool is my 1974 Craftsman RAS and I bought a similar somewhat abused model that I can use for spare parts. When it comes to tools I simply keep them clean and don't abuse them and when it comes time let them go, I give them away to someone who might have need

        In July I will be 78. I started driving when I was 17 and to date I've only owned (as main transportation) six cars: a new 65' VW (93K in 3 yrs), a new 68' Valiant (about 80K), a new 76' Mercury Monarch (about 60K) which was a total piece of junk), a new 84' Toyota Tercel wagon (88K), a used 91' Plymoth Grand Voyager van, and my present used 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan which has about 140K on it. The latter runs perfectly but the lower body is a rusted mess. (I also have a 95 Miata with 34K on it, but that only gets driven for fun in the summer and it hasn't been on the road for at least six years now; I keep it in the garage)

        I guess my point is that I keep stuff a long time, but maintain it well. The Valiant and Toyota were undoubtedly my best and most reliable cars and without question, the Mercury the absolute worst in every possible way!

        I think the problem with the automobile industry is that they simply refuse to make a basic automobile for the masses. I don't need all the electronics, the multiple sensors, and all the other costly additives that not only drive the prices up, create supply and maintenance problems, but also frustrate the maintenance and repair industry, not to mention the owner who has to pay for it. A good example is the turn-signal indicator control. On my old 68 Valiant, that was so elementary it was almost a joke. The lever acted as the switch, you pulled it down and a simple wire contacted the other end and the left relay would activate and if you pushed it up likewise would occur and the right signal would activate. The whole thing was a couple of screws holding brass contacts. On my 2006 van, the stalk contains a variety of electronics, everything from the signal to the lights, cruise, ect. I've had mine replaced three times at several hundred dollars each. Today I've got one signal that acts intermittantly and the garage can't diagnose the exact failure.

        If I could find a basic car without all the electronic crap, I buy it in a minute. But that's not the case anymore!

        Recycling is a priority with us, and we diligently sort it. But here in our county they appear to be doing less and less. Where at one time they took it all, over the years they keep letting us know that this or that just needs to go to the landfill. For example they stopped taking styrofoam more than a decade ago, but only in the past few weeks have they enacted rules that no styrofoam is allowed at all (no food containers from restaurants or packaging). For awhile I was just storing styro packing in the garage, and two years ago I found a mailing/packing company in our area that will take it and grind it into pieces for their own packing material.

        Last year, they banned any kind of plastic bags to be used by retailers. That's great, but you can still buy them in the stores and on the internets. On top of that the local recycle facility will not take them because it jams their machinery; so not they just tell us to put it with the garbage and it goes into the landfill.

        I find my recycle containers getting less and less, while my so-called ' blue city bags ' are getting filled more and more.

        CWS


        Think it Through Before You Do!

        Comment


        • capncarl
          capncarl commented
          Editing a comment
          CW, the best car you have owned is the Mazda Miata. It is the most perfectly engineered car mass produced. Too bad it is just a little small seater convertible. 5 years is too long to let one sit, even in a climate controlled garage. The timing belt suffers badly always under tension. I purchase my 1990 Miata in 2016 with 15k miles on it. Original owner, garage kept. Everything rubber on the car had to be replaced. After that I used it as a daily driver for 6 yrs and only replaced 1 battery. 100,000 miles later everything still works as good as new, just a few squeaks and rattles. It is a lot harder to get into and out of though! I don’t know how much longer I can crawl in and out of it!
      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20914
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #7
        I modified the battery packs - removed the NiCd cells, but the 18650 cells were a little too large to fit, so I attached the holder to the bottom.
        Click image for larger version  Name:	P1310815.JPG Views:	0 Size:	128.2 KB ID:	847968 Click image for larger version  Name:	P1310817.JPG Views:	0 Size:	100.7 KB ID:	847970 Click image for larger version  Name:	P1310816.JPG Views:	0 Size:	100.3 KB ID:	847969

        AFAIK, I fully charged the lithiums with 4.2-somthing volts with an individual smart charger and had over 12 on the pack. But the torque was low and inadequate for driving tough screws that even my electric screwdriver handles, I could not even get the impact action to run.
        I figured 11.1 nominal voltage would have run this thing, but unless my batteries were substandard, this thing is not running on 3 Lithium ion cells for whatever reason. I guess I am not going to invest anymore time into it. Shame, its a cute little unit.

        It spins but just has no torque.
        Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-31-2022, 08:37 PM.
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • Jim Frye
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 1051
          • Maumee, OH, USA.
          • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

          #8
          For many years when we didn't have much money, I would attempt to fix darn near anything that broke. If I couldn't repair it, I would strip it for anything I thought could be used for something else. The unusable debris got tossed.
          Jim Frye
          The Nut in the Cellar.
          ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

          Comment

          • capncarl
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 3564
            • Leesburg Georgia USA
            • SawStop CTS

            #9
            The reason we just toss broken stuff is because it is broke, with little help or parts to repair it. Most of us are guilty keeping every used up tool and supplies in hopes that one day it will be just what we need. In reality, if something hasn’t been used in 5 years or a reasonable time it should be be tossed or recycled. No sense storing it forever. Our heirs will thank us.

            CW, the best car you have owned is the Mazda Miata. It is the most perfectly engineered car mass produced. Too bad it is just a little bitty small 2 seater convertible. A real death trap if driven on the roads with the modern soccer moms cars today! 5 years is too long to let a Miata sit, even in a climate controlled garage. The timing belt suffers badly always under tension. I purchase my 1990 Miata in 2016 with 15k miles on it. Original owner, garage kept. Everything rubber on the car had to be replaced. After that I used it as a daily driver for 6 yrs and only replaced 1 battery. 100,000 miles later everything still works as good as new, just a few squeaks and rattles. It is a lot harder to get into and out of though! I don’t know how much longer I can crawl in and out of it!

            Comment

            Working...