Brad nailers reliability

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20914
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Brad nailers reliability

    What the heck is it with brad nailers.
    I have had now about 5-6 of them.
    They last about five years and something breaks internally. I buy a new one because the parts aren't available anymore and not one of them does anything more than the previous ones
    But each one is a different design and each one I can't get parts for..

    I've had a craftsman beginning in 2000; it broke and I ordered replacement parts for the same cost as a HF I bought to finish while waiting.
    Eventually the HF broke and I replaced it and I bought a Bostich on sale and when it broke there were no parts. Then The Craftsman broke again, no parts anymore and it went to the trash and now my HF broke with no parts available. I think I trashed another Bostich, too, but it was only up to 1-1/2 inch brads.

    Why don't they make one Model T or Volkswagen design sell it for $20 and have all the parts the same design for 25 years and be done. A $10 kit could repair every brad nailer out there.for the next 30 years.
    Or why can't the plastic parts and gaskets and pistons be made of metal and not break after 5 years?

    Besides the obvious that's I'd not be buying 6 nailers, maybe 2 maximum if that were the case.

    And I've also tossed some staplers, too I know.

    OK, Rant over.

    Last edited by LCHIEN; 08-03-2020, 03:39 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • twistsol
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2002
    • 2893
    • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
    • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

    #2
    I understand your rant and sympathize. I bought a delta joiner and after 6 years couldn't get parts for that and basically had hundreds of pounds of scrap iron. I had to scrounge parts from garage sales and eBay to rebuild my dad's RAS. On the brad nailer/pinner point. I bought a GREX 23 gauge pinner about 20 years ago and it has jammed once and has needed no parts. It probably cost as much as the 5-6 you've had combined though.

    The other end of the spectrum is the Shopsmith Mark V. They are selling the same machine now that they did in the 50's with some internal tweaks and a 3 external revisions. You can still get parts for for all the Mark V machines. Their other products have been abandoned. The Sawsmith RAS and Sawsmith 2000 tablesaw, the Mark II and VII, and the 10e and 10er are all no shows on the parts list.
    Chr's
    __________
    An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
    A moral man does it.

    Comment

    • cwsmith
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2005
      • 2737
      • NY Southern Tier, USA.
      • BT3100-1

      #3
      Well, I could recommend "Ridgid" and then make sure you register for their "Limited Lifetime Service Agreement" which will always ensure that you can get it repaired or replaced.... hopefully!

      I do understand your frustration and can definitely relate to it. But I'm sure you well understand that the 'game' is about making money, saving even a fraction of the cost by using plastic, and of course offering replacement parts for an extremely limited time, and doing so at a very inflated price.

      So, here's been my experience as a technical writer and illustrator who started my career in 1966 and worked through 2004 working for Ingersoll-Rand/Dresser-Rand in the last thirty years of that AND doing a whole heck of a lot of contract work in the beginning and a heckuva lot of freelance work during the whole time. I've done work for some of the top industries here in the northeast:

      While working in the compressor industry I cam to understand that 70% of their business was in parts. That was so important that they'd often sell the main products at cost, because the profit was in parts! Parts availability was so important that they had a facility that would actually manufacture a part for you, even on machines that were decades old.

      IBM business equipment like typewriters, used to have a so-called 9-year plan... 3 years with direct support, 3 years of maintenance support (if you had a contract), and three more years of parts availability. After that, you'd be on your own.

      Other companies that I had experience with were far more limited. Back in the late-60's through much of the 70's American industry was still in the mindset of building better equipment than their competitors, then there must have been a new graduating class of Managers and Accounting people, because the reasoning seemed to be focused on Cost Reduction! Parts just had to function, where possible cheaper metallurgical and machining processes were sought, and if it could be made of plastic, then that was the path to follow. Where at one time you looked at a competitor with the mindset that our product was better, American manufacturer's seemed to focus on "if they can make it cheaper, why not us". Competition seemed to drive some companies to focus not on quality and durability, but on cost reduction and market share.

      It seemed like it took only a decade to cut cost, make only to "meet the requirements" and nothing better. I started hearing, "We don't want it pretty, we want it Tuesday" mandates; and, that's when we started seeing more and more subcontracting, and a growing desire to move the entire product to places like India and China. Management starting looking at our parts operations, even our fleet of trucking. In my company we even had a Division that started changing it's part numbers, in an effort to confuse the third-party suppliers, they even started naming the product with "SSR" (Single Source Responsibility). What a nightmare that turned out to be, as our warehouse's and parts suppliers started duplicating stocking areas, until someone figured it out. I had heard that in some cases, a physical change would be made just so the part would be exclusive!

      So, I think that in the case of tools like we use, there could very well be "standards" or common designs, but there is no profit in that. 'Exclusivity' is part of the design and is driven by profits. I think that also drives the changing of models and the need to drop the last design as often as possible, followed by a limiting stock of parts. In many, if not most, replacement parts are made in the initial phase of manufacturing a product. You make X-number of products for the market, and at the same time, a limited number of replacement parts. For example you might make 10,000 electric drills, and for them you make 12,000 electric motors; those surplus 2,000 are for parts orders and when their gone, they're gone.

      I like Ryobi tools, but you have to take note how often they change! You buy a pressure washer and the following year it's been replaced with a new model. Parts are probably NOT interchangeable and in three years you probably won't find a fix if yours breaks. So, Ryobi gets to sell you a new one! Today, I think you can pretty much place Ridgid and many other brands into that same category of good tools, but not long serviceable because of non-existing parts.

      CWS

      Think it Through Before You Do!

      Comment

      • capncarl
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 3564
        • Leesburg Georgia USA
        • SawStop CTS

        #4
        The situation with brad nailers, I understand it’s the same problem with all pneumatic nailers is sad. All the plastic parts and unavailable parts and model changes with no support for older models.

        Gone are the days when you shopped for tools for quality and durability, expecting a reasonably long service lifetime. Now, I hate to say it, but it is more economical to buy the Cheapest HF nailer and use it till it croaks, chunk it in the trash and buy a new cheap one.

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20914
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          I see the point that they'll never sell a new nailer if the old one lasts forever and then after that its repairable using easily available parts from their competitors.

          But that's not uncommon... Rockwell/Delta 14" bandsaws aren't they pretty much repairable with parts from every other US and China made bandsaw from grizzly, harbor freight, and dozens of other nameless manufacturers? Why is that model untenable?

          Or Volkswagens where the same basic design was made for 30 years and most of the parts could be interchanged?

          I mean there's really no new features I can think of or live without on any nailer that's newer than my first one from 20 years ago.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20914
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            Two dead nailers in 2 months
            Notice that the air deflector rings for both were broken and found irreplaceable for a couple of years now.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	20200804_001757_resized.jpg Views:	68 Size:	83.0 KB ID:	840142
            Last edited by LCHIEN; 08-06-2020, 01:47 AM.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • Carlos
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2004
              • 1893
              • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

              #7
              How much do you use them?

              My Harbor Freight brad nailers and staplers are 10-20 years old, but have probably seen only a few thousand nails each.

              Comment

              • LCHIEN
                Internet Fact Checker
                • Dec 2002
                • 20914
                • Katy, TX, USA.
                • BT3000 vintage 1999

                #8
                NOT all that much. Sporadic use may sit for a month or two then fire off ten to 100 or more. Always put two-3 drops of air tool oil in the air inlet before using.
                Loring in Katy, TX USA
                If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                Comment

                • Carlos
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 1893
                  • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                  #9
                  Weird, I use mine the same way, except I almost never oil them at all. But I did only buy Harbor Freight's finest, LOL!

                  Humidity maybe? I think you're close to Houston humidity, and my area is very dry except for maybe a month a year.

                  Comment

                  • capncarl
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 3564
                    • Leesburg Georgia USA
                    • SawStop CTS

                    #10
                    I do not think that the old tool manufacturers that we remember even considered how soon the customer would replace that tool, and did not build planned obsolescence into the tool. The just built the best tool out of the best materials possible. These tools were not cheap either, they were not really for everyone because only trades people bought real tools. My grandfather was a carpenter, always used hand saws, and sometimes in his later years that I’m supposing was late 1940s-1950s he bought a circular saw. I gave that saw away to a friend who displayed old tools a few years ago. It still worked fine but was very heavy. Grandma told me that grandpa had paid several weeks wages for that saw. I think it was a Rockwell Delta, all metal, right hand screw drive. I’m guessing that the price he paid would be equivalent to what Festool or some other high end tools cost today. Would these new high end tools have the long lifetime as the old tools had?

                    Carlos. I don’t think humidity is the problems with these pneumatic tools, the plastic parts just seem to age out and crack just like a bunch or poly caster wheels do. The pneumatic tool repair shop/ air nail and fastener shop that I frequent has a pile of discarded plastic air gun parts that would over fill a long bed pick up truck! The pile looks as large as the pile of 11 and 13 horse power Brigs and Stratton lawn mower motors was behind a lawn mower repair shop!

                    Some of my older pneumatic air guns and impacts had aluminum innards with “O” rings. These didn’t self destruct, they were just too heavy and Finally the style of nails changed making them obsolete.

                    Comment

                    • LCHIEN
                      Internet Fact Checker
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 20914
                      • Katy, TX, USA.
                      • BT3000 vintage 1999

                      #11
                      I had Bostich, I had Craftsman, They all failed the same way as the HF units.
                      I figure that the brand doesn't make any difference. I ordered the cheapest Amazon nailer... NuMax $30, as my replacement. We'll see how that goes.

                      Heck it arrived an hour ago.Ordered it about 1 AM on Monday. (and this is Tuesday afternoon).
                      Last edited by LCHIEN; 08-04-2020, 08:36 PM.
                      Loring in Katy, TX USA
                      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                      Comment

                      • leehljp
                        Just me
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 8429
                        • Tunica, MS
                        • BT3000/3100

                        #12
                        Not to take away from your nailers but I have had great luck with the 18V Ryobi nailers: 16 gauge finish nailer, 18 gauge narrow crown stapler, and I have been seriously considering the 23 gauge pin nailer. Battery powered ones are heavier but there are no cords.

                        Oh and I have their 3/8 in crown stapler that was excellent for doing some upholstery work.
                        Hank Lee

                        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                        Comment

                        • capncarl
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3564
                          • Leesburg Georgia USA
                          • SawStop CTS

                          #13
                          I have not used a battery nailer, do they consistently sink the nails/brads/staples? Nothing is more agrivating than to have to pull out fasteners that are not seated properly, or try to beat them in with a hammer.

                          Comment

                          • leehljp
                            Just me
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 8429
                            • Tunica, MS
                            • BT3000/3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by capncarl
                            I have not used a battery nailer, do they consistently sink the nails/brads/staples? Nothing is more agrivating than to have to pull out fasteners that are not seated properly, or try to beat them in with a hammer.
                            I was skeptical about using them in oak or other hard wood. I had full confidence in pine, but I put some 2X oak together and drove 2 1/2 in 16 gauge finish nails all the way in. It has a great "setting" adjuster that works well in adjusting the depth that the head goes in or sets below the surface. I was totally surprised and drove about 20 2 1/2 in nails into the two 2x4 stacked red oak. None stuck out.

                            I got mine within the first year they were released. Comments then (earlier on) on Amazon, HD and other Google review searches showed a good but reserved rating - mostly based on it being new and curious on the long term dependability. The ratings came up from 3 1/2 to 4 stars to 4 1/2 stars avg. on most sites within a year or so and have remained.

                            I have forgotten when I got them, either January 2015 or 2016.

                            They are heavier (due to batteries) than most air nailers, unless you get into the full blown daily use construction nailers. But the freedom of movement is very notable.
                            Hank Lee

                            Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                            Comment

                            • LCHIEN
                              Internet Fact Checker
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 20914
                              • Katy, TX, USA.
                              • BT3000 vintage 1999

                              #15
                              NuMax nailer from Amazon $30 bucks works fine for 5 nails tested at midnight last night.
                              It even fits the blowmold case now on its third nailer, as for $30 you only get a carboard box, some allen wrenches and a small bottle of oil.And an air QC stud affixed.
                              Click image for larger version  Name:	NuMax nailer.JPG Views:	0 Size:	31.5 KB ID:	840173
                              Works just like the other nailers before it. Hope it lasts longer. Probably won't.

                              You know, HF doesn't have a 18 ga brad nailer (not a stapler combo one) less than $60 listed anymore?

                              By the way talking about reliability, anyone ever break those air deflector rings (and can't get parts)?
                              Both the HF and Craftsman units I pictured for the trash bin have broken air deflector rings... plastic. Not dropped! Blah! 100% failure.
                              Last edited by LCHIEN; 08-06-2020, 03:45 AM.
                              Loring in Katy, TX USA
                              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                              Comment

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