Max amps for 12 gauge wire on a 220V circuit

[atgcpaul]

I'm considering getting this Grizzly jointer-planer combo:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0634XP

It says it needs 220V, 25A (on a 30A circuit). According to the manual (page 5), 12 gauge wire will suffice.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0634xp_m.pdf

However, other sources seem to indicate I'll need 10 or even 8 gauge wire.

Is 12 gauge enough to handle a 30A circuit @ 220V?

Thanks,
Paul

[LCHIEN]

At first thought that seems a bit light considering 12 Ga is usually used for 20A circuits in 120V wiring.
The voltage doesn't really matter except that the drop as a percentage matters.

For 20-30 amps heat is not the biggest problem, the voltage drop to the tool is the biggest problem causing voltage loss, excessive current and overheatning of the windings causing possible winding damage. Windings overheat before supply wiring because they are packed densely together.

As most tools are safe with a 5% drop in voltage, a 220V tool can stand twice the voltage drop before hitting 5%.

Of course, length of the wire matters a lot... 12Ga might just be the recommendation for an extension cord of limited length as opposed to the branch wiring in your house.

Just random thoughts without looking anything up.

[twistsol]

I asked one of the electricians at work this morning. He said for 220v 30 AMP, 10 gauge is required.

[cwsmith]

According to the latest wiring references that I have, 30 amp, 240 volt requires 10 gauge wire.

I have electric baseboard heat up in the attic area of this old house. Two separate lengths of baseboard 220-volt elements and both are wired with 10 gauge, probably because of the length of wire required from the basement panel to the third floor.

I've rewired most everything in my house with 12 gauge wire, for use with 120-volt, I just like the extra margin over 14 gauge. I'm in the process of planning my wiring for a new shop that I've ordered (a 12 x 20 Amish-built shed). All my tools are 120-volt, but I was planning on changing over my RAS to 240; and, was only thinking of using 20 gauge on that too as I don't see any really heavy duty equipment in my future... my RAS would draw only about 8-amps at 240 V.

But for something like you describe, I think that 10-gauge would be the best practice.

CWS

[atgcpaul]

Last night I was using the Grizzly shop planner to help me decide where to put the new Jet jointer/planer (JP) and in what direction to run the new circuit. Apparently I jinxed myself.

I only ordered the JP through Rockler last Friday so I figured I'd have plenty of time to clear a space, clean up, etc. Nope.

Wife is teleworking today and calls me before lunch. "Your thing is here. Where do we put it?" What?!!!

I knew it was shipping directly from Jet, but I figured the Jet delivery person would have called ahead (I know I left contact instructions in the online Rockler order) or Jet/Rockler would communicate and Rockler would let me know. Nope. The delivery slip had no mention of my phone number in there.

Anyway, the pallet the JP sits on has standoffs that don't allow a regular pallet jack to slide under. The delivery guy could only slip one of the legs underneath and they both muscled it in front of my garage door.



To add insult to injury, it's raining today. So I jetted (see what I did there?) home, had to clear a space (and wouldn't you know it, this is the worst part of the shop), and got some 1/2" conduit under there to slide it in. Actually that was the easiest part. Clearing a spot wasn't.



So I guess this is a good problem to have, but still a PITA. At least the plywood Jet uses is pretty nice. That'll get fashioned into something later. Now I have to figure out how to get it off the pallet and onto the mobile base.

Paul

[capncarl]

Can't wait to see it unwrapped! Every day is Christmas!
At least they put it on the ground for you. When I bought my milling machine they set the crate in the back of my pickup truck with a forklift, it took me 3 days of rigging to get it out.

[mpc]

Have you seen those simple engine-hoist cranes at HF or many auto parts stores? Fairly simple and rated for about a ton typically. Even with the crane arm fully extended (extra reach) they're usually rated for at least 500 pounds. Many tool rental places, and chain auto parts stores, will rent them for not a whole lot of money. Might be easier than trying to round up several buddies to dead-lift the unit - and easier on everybody's back. And you'll be able to take your time positioning your new toy on the mobile base. I have the HF hoist and it's been handy for car engines but I've also used it in the shop to handle bulky or heavy items such as the overhead air filter unit. Like many of the rental models, the HF unit breaks down into a few square metal tubes so it fits in cars and can be muscled by one guy; it assembles with a series of pins and a few bolts+nuts. The only "gotchas" to watch for on these hoists:
* will the mobile base you plan to put the new toy on fit between the legs of the hoist.
* if whatever you are lifting is fairly tall the hoist may not have enough travel.

Either that or take the unit apart to manageable sized chunks.

mpc

[cwsmith]

Don't you just love these kinds of challenges?

I didn't see where of if you mentioned the weight, so out of curiosity, how much are we talking about... it does look hefty.

It seems that lately I am faced with a few of these weight kinds of problems and unfortunately I don't have anyone that I can really call upon for such things. When I put together my Ridgid jointer a year or so ago, I used a one-ton chain hoist to maneuver it around during assembly. When taking it out of the van, I employed a similar-sized moving pallet to get it into position in the garage where I could utilize the chain hoist.

I've been think of building some kind of gantry or whatever one might call it, something portable, knock-down, where I could assemble it in place and use the chain hoist to lift and then move.... sort of an upside down 'U' with 'T' sides using four good-sized wheels or tires to make it mobile once the object is lifted. 2 x 6's should do the trick.

CWS

[woodturner]

I asked one of the electricians at work this morning. He said for 220v 30 AMP, 10 gauge is required.

He is telling you the NEC minimum for lighting circuits. Wire sizing also depends on the length of the run and the type of cable - and motor circuits are typically increased one size in gauge, to allow for the startup surge. Normal practice for motor circuits, assuming NM-B plastic sheathed cable ( e.g. "Romex") is 10 gauge for 20A 115 VAC circuits, 8 gauge for 220 V 30 A circuits, if the one-way distance is 100' or less. If you want to avoid dimming lights and slow startup on motors that start under load (most woodworking tools) an additional derating is recommended - so 8 gauge and 6 gauge.

[atgcpaul]

Don't you just love these kinds of challenges?

Actually, yes

I didn't see where of if you mentioned the weight, so out of curiosity, how much are we talking about... it does look hefty.

The shipping weight is listed at 600lbs and the machine weighs 430lbs. I can't imagine all that plywood amounts to 170lbs, but whatever. It's the heftiest machine I've received to date. My TS shipping weight was 550lbs and the BS was 420lbs and neither of those two was that difficult. I had help getting the TS off the pallet and onto the base, but I think I did the BS by myself.

I'm sure Jet has done their best to tune the machine up before shipping so I'm not going to disassemble it just to get it back. I've read that it shouldn't be picked up by the beds but that people have been able to maneuver onto a mobile base on their own. I have a 1 ton lift cart and a 3 ton car jack. I could get creative with those. Anyway, I've got a lot of shop cleaning and prep to do before I even consider getting this off the pallet. I'm in no rush and have plenty of other things going on. Something will come to me in that time.

[atgcpaul]

I was wrong about the weight. Someone on Amazon said it was 430. I noticed this morning on the crate it says 530. There is a gap under the stand when viewed on end so that's my lifting point.

I got some stuff moved out of the way and couldn't help but to peek inside.

[capncarl]

What kind of mobile base do you have in mind?

[tfischer]

Holy cow that's a fine tool. This forum has sure changed from when I joined 12 years ago when we were all joined together around a little $400 table saw lol...

[atgcpaul]

What kind of mobile base do you have in mind?

I was going to get a ShopFox but Jet had 20% off accessories on BF so I got the Jet base. Many people use that one for this JP. Now that I can see the whole thing, there's 4 mounting holes on the right side of the base--maybe for one of those foot activated rollers. I've read people have mounted some heavy duty casters to the base, but was too lazy to do that research.

Holy cow that's a fine tool. This forum has sure changed from when I joined 12 years ago when we were all joined together around a little $400 table saw lol...

I've been working jointer-less for 12+ years now and thought I was doing OK. Then I installed some Paul-made Shaker style doors in my kitchen and realized that my luck had run out. I have one door that's warped and won't close flat against the cabinet. At first I thought I installed the hinges incorrectly but it became obvious that the stile was not flat. It bugged (me and) my wife enough that she allowed the purchase. I guess I have to remake that door, too.

About that $400 saw...I actually got mine new for less than $250, IIRC, and sold it for about that much. I'm sure my Dad is now wishing he hadn't passed on my offer to take it off my hands for free because he still wants a TS.

[JR]

It bugged ... my wife enough that she allowed the purchase. I guess I have to remake that door, too.

Now, that is playing the long game.

Golf clap.