Harbor Freight Dust Collector upgrade questions.

[dbhost]

So, like many, I have the 2HP Harbor Freight Dust collector, upgraded to a Wynn 35A filter. I am looking to get more airflow out of the DC and am wondering about an impeller and output upgrade, and have some questions...

#1. The Rikon P60-200-22 impeller seems to be the recommended replacement, but it appears to no longer be available. Can anyone recommend an alternative or potentially a source for this impeller on the used / part out market?

#2. Lots of folks seem to upgrade the intake port on the impeler housing to 6" using a 6" sheet metal flange. Easy enough, but the output is still necked down to 5" isn't it? What can I do to upgrade the output from the impeller and the separator ring to 6"

My thought process here is to go with 6" mains, and keep my 4" branches / blast gates.

So what's your thoughts? Anyone know how to source this up? What is a good source for 6" DWV pipe and fittings? I'd rather not go with metal pipe as it is too easy to damage in the shop environment.

[radhak]

I am sure HD/Lowes would be good enough sources for your 6" pipes and fittings ... or would you need a lot of those?

But for your main issue of the Rikon impeller, I was trying do that myself a couple of years ago and ran into bad supply by the manufacturer (they had quoted a 8 months wait!). I sorta remember reading online that somebody tried a similar impeller from Grizzly but the motor on their HF DC could not manage the Grizzly's weight. I'll try and find that page again.

I ended up just sticking with my Jet DC650.

Sorry, not helping much, just remembered some of my own struggle in this.

[Carlos]

I can't comment on the DC itself, I went another route on that. I'm running 5" metal tube backbone and 4" drops (2.5 on some that have a 2.5 port, like the miter saw and DP). My DC is a true 3HP with a monster impeller and 6" inlet. At the time I researched it, the wisdom was that 5" was sufficient for flow assuming it's hard pipe with gradual bends and no hard elbows. When I bought the Oneida cyclone I talked to them about it and they verified this was good. In fact their heavy duty steel cyclone has 5" in and 6" out, which they said is ideal. It works very effectively even on high producers like the 5HP drum sander. I was able to pick up the pipe used, so for cost reasons, I can understand if you'd go plastic.

[dbhost]

I can't comment on the DC itself, I went another route on that. I'm running 5" metal tube backbone and 4" drops (2.5 on some that have a 2.5 port, like the miter saw and DP). My DC is a true 3HP with a monster impeller and 6" inlet. At the time I researched it, the wisdom was that 5" was sufficient for flow assuming it's hard pipe with gradual bends and no hard elbows. When I bought the Oneida cyclone I talked to them about it and they verified this was good. In fact their heavy duty steel cyclone has 5" in and 6" out, which they said is ideal. It works very effectively even on high producers like the 5HP drum sander. I was able to pick up the pipe used, so for cost reasons, I can understand if you'd go plastic.

No disrespect meant at all, but honestly I cringed when I saw the steel tubing with the 3 90 degree tight bends.

IF you can, find a way to reposition the impeller housing directly over the cyclone and run the tube directly to the cyclone without any bends. If you can't, make your bends using 2 45 degree elbows, OR a much more gentle sweeping elbow.

I can't say it like he does, but Bill Pentz makes some awesome points about how airflow tight turns, and ribbed hose works together.

Mind you, my DC setup isn't much better, but honestly, you put a ton of effort in to that rig and I kind of doubt you are going to be happy with the performance in the long run.

As far as my current DC setup, I am running a 5" steel main into / out of the Thien Cyclone drum, and then to the OE 5x4x4 splitter. I run a branch high, and one low, I run 4" to each device / dust hood and neck down to 2.5" if need be. All blast gates are 4".

I'd like to improve the impeller and do the over the top spin thing, convert to 6" DWV as the 5" metal even in its lonely corner of the shop,has taken damage from moving things around that plastic wouldn't flinch at, Run a single 6" with 4" drops, or 4" and 2.5" drops where needed. like the table saw...

I'd like to upgrade to a 3HP impeller and true cyclone but I have some trouble justifying it if I can get the HF DC to do what I want. Kind of bend it to my will sort of thing.


Anyway, what I am considering is chucking the 55gal plastic dust bin, It's too big / unwieldy to empty and the neighbor kids learn new words in 3 different languages every time I try. I rarely use the Thien I build for my shop vac on a 30 gallon galvanized trash can. I may modify it for 6" ducting and do the flip mount, OR simply modify the OE HF setup, place a Thien Baffle in the separator ring and flip the impeller housing, upsize the flange on the housing intake, upsize the impeller itself, upsize my duct work and call it good...

[capncarl]

When I finally realized that wood dust was overtaking my home work shop and was becoming a health hazard I got serious and researched dust control and dust hazards. Bill Pentz is the most valuable resource for information on the hazards of wood dust that I have found and his writings should be read.

It’s not just about blower size, dust collector experts say that to get more CFM through your dust collection machinery you need to increase the duct size. Simply installing a larger blower helps, but will not reach it fullest capabilities if it is throttled down by small ducts. For home shop woodworkers it seems that the biggest bang for your buck is to increase your duct size to let your blower do it’s job! I learned this for a fact from work experience, but didn’t realize it at the time! You can close off all of your duct inlets and your blower motor amperage will drop to an idle! In effect, reducing you duct size throttles down your blower and you are not utilizing your equipment to its fullest!
What does this mean? My interpretation is.... if you have a dust collection system with piping capable of 1600 CFM and drop piping down to a saw, drum sander, etc with 4” or smaller piping, or 2 1/2” hose/piping you might have well just parked a large shop dust spreader vacuum cleaners at each tool.

Your larger piped dust collector is not only getting rid of visible nuisance dust but it is also sucking in lots of harmful invisible dust hopefully before your lungs inhale it!

[Carlos]

No disrespect meant at all, but honestly I cringed when I saw the steel tubing with the 3 90 degree tight bends.

Oneida told me to do this. They said the exit from the cyclone is 1" larger than the input for the very reason that people often need to do something like this for space. I cannot reasonably build it taller due to HOA rules about being visible above the fence line. There were no other reasonable compromises to allow me to put it outside, and have a stacked blower/cyclone/bin. I measured the flow with the blower on top and after doing the connections you see, and the difference was very small. Performance is fantastic and I am totally happy with the results. I only use one tool at a time, and it moves more air than any tool needs. Also there's no filter so we remove that impact on air flow.

I agree on bends on the input side, and those are generally wyes.

[Carlos]

When I finally realized that wood dust was overtaking my home work shop and was becoming a health hazard I got serious and researched dust control and dust hazards. Bill Pentz is the most valuable resource for information on the hazards of wood dust that I have found and his writings should be read.

It’s not just about blower size, dust collector experts say that to get more CFM through your dust collection machinery you need to increase the duct size. Simply installing a larger blower helps, but will not reach it fullest capabilities if it is throttled down by small ducts. For home shop woodworkers it seems that the biggest bang for your buck is to increase your duct size to let your blower do it’s job! I learned this for a fact from work experience, but didn’t realize it at the time! You can close off all of your duct inlets and your blower motor amperage will drop to an idle! In effect, reducing you duct size throttles down your blower and you are not utilizing your equipment to its fullest!
What does this mean? My interpretation is.... if you have a dust collection system with piping capable of 1600 CFM and drop piping down to a saw, drum sander, etc with 4” or smaller piping, or 2 1/2” hose/piping you might have well just parked a large shop dust spreader vacuum cleaners at each tool.

Your larger piped dust collector is not only getting rid of visible nuisance dust but it is also sucking in lots of harmful invisible dust hopefully before your lungs inhale it!

Totally agree, going from 4" to 5" even with the old DC gave a boost. Then with the current DC it would simply make no sense to choke it with 4" tubing.

[dbhost]

Oneida told me to do this. They said the exit from the cyclone is 1" larger than the input for the very reason that people often need to do something like this for space. I cannot reasonably build it taller due to HOA rules about being visible above the fence line. There were no other reasonable compromises to allow me to put it outside, and have a stacked blower/cyclone/bin. I measured the flow with the blower on top and after doing the connections you see, and the difference was very small. Performance is fantastic and I am totally happy with the results. I only use one tool at a time, and it moves more air than any tool needs. Also there's no filter so we remove that impact on air flow.

I agree on bends on the input side, and those are generally wyes.

I know all about how much of a PITA Homeowners Associations can be. I have a large family tent I need to apply waterproofer to as it is honestly old, and the factory seam sealer was applied incorrectly. The MFG no longer seems to be in the tent market but I digress... My back yard doesn't have a space large enough to set up the tent, and the sealant needs 72 hours to cure. I can set up in the front yard but I am certain the HOA would fuss...

I am guessing you are venting directly out instead of through a filter.


I can and will keep mine in the garage workshop. So my big choice is going to be have to be between rotating the input of the impeller, or just doing a Thien separator in the spearator ring. I am leaning heavily toward keeping a separator BEFORE the impeller to keep from having any chunks smashing the impeller.

We all have to suit our systems to our specific applications.

[Carlos]

Our HOA isn't overbearing, and has been flexible. We simply have a rule that you can't have things visible over the fence without approval and meeting a visual guideline that matches the house. So I suppose an option would have been to build it with the same stucco/wood/roof tile look, but that would be expensive and much more work. But since Oneida said they accounted for this, I didn't see a reason to stretch things.

Right, no filter, the blower exhaust was left bare as you see it. The whole thing was enclosed with ply and then primered and painted. Inside the garage you mostly hear the woosh of the air moving, outside it's quieter than my neighbor's yard blower. So I figure if I put up with that, he can't complain about the DC. I measured the actual SPL at around 77dB from about five feet, so quite low. There's no visible dust leaving the cabinet. The cyclone gets nearly all of it, and the rest seems to settle in the exhaust area which points out the back of the cabinet.

I don't have any finished photos, this is near finishing.

[capncarl]

Carlos, I can’t imagine your blower not disturbing the neighbors! If you say it’s quiet, it’s quiet. When we were installing my 5 hp clearview I wanted to test out the blower before I installed it 10 high. I wired it up on a metal cart, chained it to the cart to keep it from walking off, and plugged it in. The noise was an ear piercing scream like an air raid siren. If this blower was outside everyone within a mile would be complaining! (My dust collector cyclone and blower is installed inside my shop because the shop is heated and cooled) it took me several weeks to build enough enclosure around the cyclone to quiet it enough to be able to stand it.

[capncarl]

5” dust collector piping? Is it cheaper than 6” pvc? I’ve read of people having clogs in their piping but have never know anyone to actually experience it.... other than in my industrial experience. That said, I doubt that the fine dust or dry sawdust that I create would slow down enough to create a clog even if I used 12” pipe!

[Carlos]

I really don't know how it compares, I wasn't interested in using PVC at all and never shopped it. This stuff is all used, and bought at around half the price of new.

As far as the DC being quiet, it's only because it's inside that box. Plywood is surprisingly good at blocking this type of noise. The motor is also mounted on rubber and MDF so no vibration gets to the wood. I'm not sure I'd use the word "quiet" but it's less loud than the neighbor's leaf blower. I use that as a comparison because he was running it right when I first fired this up, and I could hear the blower over the DC very clearly.

[LCHIEN]

FWIW, I found this sifting thru some old stuff

Description of my dust collector system

[gvanek]

#1. The Rikon P60-200-22 impeller seems to be the recommended replacement, but it appears to no longer be available. Can anyone recommend an alternative or potentially a source for this impeller on the used / part out market?

Today I installed the WEN impeller. Fit perfectly. 2” larger than the stock impeller. Delivered in 4 days…and only cost $34.

Now, I hope I can cancel the Rikon piece I ordered in June for $130…

[greencat]

#1. The Rikon P60-200-22 impeller seems to be the recommended replacement, but it appears to no longer be available. Can anyone recommend an alternative or potentially a source for this impeller on the used / part out market?

Today I installed the WEN impeller. Fit perfectly. 2” larger than the stock impeller. Delivered in 4 days…and only cost $34.

Now, I hope I can cancel the Rikon piece I ordered in June for $130…

Do you have a link to purchase the Wen impeller?