45 degree miter joint jig-sled for BT3x using SMT

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20913
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #16
    So I need a clamp with a shorter handle to clear the blade.

    OK who knows how to figure how far into the wood handle does the screw go? In other words how much of the handle can I easily cut off?
    Bessey LM2-004


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    Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-12-2022, 02:09 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #17
      Drill into the butt end of the handle with a long small dia bit. When’d you hit hard stuff you know.

      Comment


      • LCHIEN
        LCHIEN commented
        Editing a comment
        Good idea!
    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #18
      Look at this style clamp for this application. I use it quite a bit when I don’t have room for a f or bar clamp. It has round articulating metal thingys on the end that will scar up you wood, but some of the soft clamp thingy covers fix that right up. It doesn’t intrude into the blade space quite as bad as an f clamp.

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      if it intrudes too much into the blade space just saw off most of the c and fabricate a protector out of wood that the nub fits into.

      There is quite a variety of this kind of vice clamp that works really well for woodworking. I have 2 on my miter saw that fit in the 80-20 extrusion mounted behind of the fence, and I have several in the same type extrusion on my workbench. There are also very simular clamps that fit in the t track on drill presses and saws.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • LCHIEN
        LCHIEN commented
        Editing a comment
        Now that is really intriguing except that the HF versions of this clamp say out of stock until Dec 9. Uh seriously, 9 months???!!!
        I think this might be neat if I cut off on the jaw protrusions.

      • capncarl
        capncarl commented
        Editing a comment
        Harbor freight is not the only source of vice grip c lamps. I think I have seen them at Lowes. Northern tool has a big assortment of them and Amazon and EBay also has them. Caution, the jaw size means something to someone somewhere, but I’m not sure what it means. The largest size I have has swivel pads and will probably grip 4”, the smallest with swivel pads I use to clamp the flat table on the band saw will barely grip 1”, so read the product description before you purchase it! The pictures all look the same.
    • d_meister
      Established Member
      • Feb 2009
      • 184
      • La Conner, WA.
      • BT3000

      #19
      How about the 4" version of this?

      Maybe some self-adhesive sandpaper on the 45's to prevent sliding, too?

      Comment


      • LCHIEN
        LCHIEN commented
        Editing a comment
        I've been thinking about gluing some sandpaper to the front(s) because hitting the blade at an angle tends to want to pull it off a bit.
        And I've been toying with how I could use these clamps. I have them in all sizes from 2 inches to 12 inches. Maybe turn the nose of one side to a round tenon to fit the holes in my 90 fences?

      • capncarl
        capncarl commented
        Editing a comment
        Too big and bulky, and requires 2 hands and a partner to operate.

      • LCHIEN
        LCHIEN commented
        Editing a comment
        Partner? Like A consenting adult?
    • leehljp
      Just me
      • Dec 2002
      • 8429
      • Tunica, MS
      • BT3000/3100

      #20
      https://www.amazon.com/Radiator-Clam...ps%2C96&sr=8-7

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      Wonder how these water hose pinch pliers would do? they would be vertical and not in the path of the blade on either side. Not sure how well they would hold.
      Attached Files
      Hank Lee

      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

      Comment


      • LCHIEN
        LCHIEN commented
        Editing a comment
        Looks like they pivot in the middle. That would not work for low height workpieces
    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #21
      Hose vice clamp is designed to clamp off the hose when changing water pumps, radiator etc. they don’t open very wide.

      Comment

      • capncarl
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 3564
        • Leesburg Georgia USA
        • SawStop CTS

        #22
        A more suitable and easily accessible clamp. This is a Kreg 90 degree clamp that is designed to put the pointy end into the Kreg hole and the swivel pad clamps onto the other work piece. The 45 degree jig could have a couple of holes in the body where the other clamp holes are to accommodate the pointy end. I believe it would eliminate a lot of the fiddling around other clamps might have.

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        • capncarl
          capncarl commented
          Editing a comment
          Does anyone own this Kreg clamp with the automatic feature? Vrs a vise clamp with the adjuster knob on the handle? I have stayed away from this automatic feature when I replaced my lift/leveling push-pull clamps on my tablesaw leveler. Biggest mistake I’ve made in a long time. Totally useless in this application, so I have refrained from purchasing any more automatic clamps.
      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20913
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #23
        This one has folding handles that will get out of the way, too.

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        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment


        • capncarl
          capncarl commented
          Editing a comment
          I noticed on a previous comment that HF C clamp vise grip was out of stock until Dec 9. Same when I searched for them earlier. This morning while I was viewing their extended extended extended parking lot sale I searched my local store and it has vice clamps of every size and configuration in stock, so I would have much confidence it their online inventory reporting ….. or their online local store inventory reporting either! This is where a visit to the local store with a work sample in hand is best.

        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          Ugh. HF website says of the Pittsburgh clamps none in stock (presumably at the HQ warehouse) december stock expected. But then at the bottom it says in stock at several nearby stores including Katy, TX.
          So I go by and there are none in stock - there's not even a hang tag for them on the shelf. They do have some Breman house brands at more than twice the price. Which are not shown on the website.
          I'm thinking this is becoming a bait and switch tactic on behalf of HF to get you into the stores looking for the advertised or listed stuff with good prices then switching to another proprietary brand (Is it better? I don't know because they don't have the cheaper one in stock or on display). This will work for a short time (I did buy the more expensive product out ot desperation) but ultimately I am becoming bummed out and simply no longer going to check HF as a first or second choice.

        • capncarl
          capncarl commented
          Editing a comment
          I’ve also noticed that when viewing a HF item online I try to use their check availability app. It immediately blinks and changes pages to something irrelevant to my search, usually trying to get me to sign up for preferred customer or whatever they call that “special” thing. A totally useless search. I bet they don’t even try to know what each store has on stock.
      • furthermore
        Forum Newbie
        • Dec 2020
        • 33
        • North Yarmouth, ME
        • Ryobi BT3K

        #24
        It might be overkill, but have you thought about routing a slot (or building one up with thin material) that the SMT clamp could ride in? That way it'd pull in to the fixture and there's nothing hanging off

        Comment


        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          Capn', you are correct that the jig is held in position by the two dowels pegged into the pivot holes. and captured by the knob and bolt in the center slot.

          An you are right that the downside of downward clamping from the 45 square fence is that it pushes against the saw table and not against the SMT base as the Ryobi miter clamp does. The SMT is limited, though in upwards travel by the slides.

          So I Have to think about it some more.

        • mpc
          mpc commented
          Editing a comment
          If the jig was mounted to a flat panel that in turn attached to the SMT via the dowel pegs, the panel would serve as the clamp mate for the stock SMT clamp. And it would serve as a ZCTP of sorts. You could make the plate a little wide so the blade trims it to size initially, forming a nice reference edge to line up your desired workpiece cut line. In effect you would be making something approximating the typical table saw miter sled but turned 90 degrees.

          mpc

        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah, a panel under the jig that provide a support for a vertical clamp and also serves as a cut line reference has been running thru my mind. Didn't want to add a lot of bulk and size to it but yeah that's surely a possibility.
      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20913
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #25
        Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.

        After quite a bit of tracking down and buying a locking clamp of 6" I pretty much decided it won't work, although I had high hopes. The jaw opening was too limited and the jaw angles would not have been right after doing some modifications. Among other things as the jaw opened the clamping point swings in an arc (as opposed to in and out in a line) and when widest would have been too high for thin pieces. I was not looking forward to hacksawing the Cr-V jaws either.

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        (OK, I just realized I drew it reversed with the wrong movable jaw but I'm not going to redraw it.)

        I looked at 4", 6" and 11" locking clamps physically in my hand at the jig and none really fit the bill even with modification.

        I finally cut down a F-clamp and also glued some sandpaper on the fence faces. And drilled a hanging hole. Slotted the new end of the clamp so I could do a screwdriver assisted tightening if needed with the short handle. With the 4" F-clamp I can clamp 3-1/2" wide workpiece.

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        Somewhere soon I need to make a frame and see how this works.
        I have a couple of 8x15 photo prints I brought back from a vacation my wife has been wanting me to frame.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-22-2022, 10:48 AM.
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment


        • leehljp
          leehljp commented
          Editing a comment
          I still think a modified vise grip pliers would do well; just don't cut the wrong arm off!

        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          I looked at it for a really long time. One arm is fixed to the handle and the other arm pivots around its pivot point. But regardless the travel is an arc and not a line.

          I would have cut off the tip on the fixed arm so that the handle would stay motionless and in fixed relation to the fence as the movable arm moved to clamp the workpiece. But alas the movement is an arc rather than linearly in and out meaning I can't clamp thin stuff If I cut off the pivot and go to a simple straight jaw. That's why you only see these wide arm locking pliers with point ends or swivel ends, no flat ends, to accommodate the arc.
          Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-22-2022, 10:59 AM.
      • nicer20
        Established Member
        • Sep 2007
        • 365
        • Dublin, CA
        • BT3100

        #26
        Great jig and equally great step by step documentation.

        Regd. holding the pieces against the miter fences - how about gluing some 120 grit sandpaper strips on both faces? I have glued this on my sacrificial miter fence and they provide excellent holding without any sliding movement.

        Just my $0.02

        NG

        Comment


        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks. Sandpaper face Already done - look at post no. 25 in this thread.
          Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-22-2022, 02:05 AM.

        • nicer20
          nicer20 commented
          Editing a comment
          Great. Of course .

          Hopefully one day I may be able to think of something that Loring hasn't implemented yet ;-) ;-)
      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20913
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #27
        After a break I finally got around to using the jig.

        You recall that the object of this jig is to make very square 90° corners with two complementary 45's. The basis being a very 90.00 degree square that is set ~45° to the blade so that the two angles cut on either side add up to 90.0.

        Here is a example from the last Mitered frame I made, I glues up two corners and then glued the remaining corners, all using a Bessey miter clamp.

        You can see the last two corners are not completely closed.
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        Here is a plan of the jig, how to cut the frame of sequential pieces so that the grain matches, and how to fit the pieces together.
        I mark all the pieces so I know which is which and don't swap or reverse similar looking pieces. T,L,B,R are top, right, bottom and left as viewed from the back side. The miter cut edges I numbered 1-8.

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        I cut the board between the 4 and 5 marks leaving a little extra space for two 45° kerf waste (allow W+L+1/2" from the left end). This allows me to cut the Top and bottom rails at the same time since the lengths are identical and the L & R at the same time, stacking them. The rabetted edge is up and hard to see in this picture but matches my paper plan.

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        Stack the boards and make the first cut on the close side of the jig. All the odd numbered edges are cut on the close side and all the even cuts are on the far side of the jig... so that even and odd are mated to be complementary. Note the rabbet edge is away from the jig. This is cut for edge number 1 & stacked with number 5.

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        How to get the cut line set
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        This is set up to make the second cut - edge number 2 on the far side of the jig, also stacked with number 6.

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        The third cut is edge number 3 stacked with number 7, again , odd cut close side.

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        And measure off the side height, and made cut number 4 (stacked with 8)

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        Four cuts and done! It goes very fast!

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        In the next post I will show the assembly.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by LCHIEN; 05-12-2022, 01:27 AM.
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20913
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #28
          This is a continuation of the frame making exercise from the previous post in this thread.

          The First test was a mess - I used some good pine, my Bessey miter clamps were not able to open enough So i used some older classic miter clamps and the problem was getting the whole shebang level.... I did two corners and then the two opposite corners and the result of a 19-3/4 x 12-5/8 frame was about 1/4" not flat. But laid out on a flat table the pieces looked perfect.

          So I decided to change and use my DIY odd angle miter clamps which work at 45/90 as well. The advantage is that they can lay flush on a table.
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          DIY miter clamps post number 2 in this thread: https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...u-made-part-ii

          I did two opposite corners. I could only get one clamp on the short side even though I had enough clamps. The other advantage of the DIY miter clamps is that it conforms to the exact angle of the joint rather than attempt to make it fit 90.

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          When I placed the two halves together it was perfect... on both sets of frames I made.

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          I completed the glue up doing the remaining two corners with the frame perfectly flat on the workbench.
          Note that while I cut everything with the back side up I assembled and glued face side up so I could make sure the faces lined up perfectly. I used a rubber mallet to tap them perfectly flush. And could wipe off any excess glue with a damp towel. I use a piece of wax paper under to prevent gluing to the table.

          From long experience, I apply and spread thoroughly a film of glue on both end grain surfaces and wait about five minutes for it to be absorbed. Then apply another layer of glue. Otherwise the joint will most likely end up dry. The first coat of glue absorbs rapidly into the end grain of the wood (even at 45 degrees) and starves the joint of glue. The first coat skins the pores and the second coat makes the adhesion of the wood.

          I have to say these two final frames I made were the absolutely most perfect coming together with the least adjustments that I ever made.
          Here are the four corners before finish sanding, they'll look better after that:
          Notice the grain even matches as much as possible wrapping around (at least 3 of 4).
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          All in all the miter jig did live up to expectations of making perfect 45/90 degree miter joints as I expected.
          Using the complementary angle technique, cutting top and bottom together, and having the planned order made it fast and non confusing - just four cuts and the frame came out with perfect joins and lays perfectly flat.
          After the first one I made two more with red oak 1x3x 6 foot from the box store and both came out perfectly.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by LCHIEN; 04-27-2023, 01:56 AM.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • Dedpedal
            Established Member
            • Feb 2020
            • 255
            • Palm Coast Florida
            • One BT3000 in use and one for parts. Plus a BT3100

            #29
            Nice jig! I’ve been thinking about making a new one. I have a sled but it’s limited.
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            Comment

            • LCHIEN
              Internet Fact Checker
              • Dec 2002
              • 20913
              • Katy, TX, USA.
              • BT3000 vintage 1999

              #30
              Here is the spreadsheet I use for making frames.(actually page 3 of the spreadsheet) to calculate the exact outside dimensions for a frame to fit a given picture size given the frame member width, the rabbet size and allowance.

              Frame Calculator Size and Foot 4.xlsx
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              Attached Files
              Last edited by LCHIEN; 05-12-2022, 01:41 AM.
              Loring in Katy, TX USA
              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

              Comment

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