All the references to SS - I thought you guys were endorsing Shop Smith!
(I have one - but prefer my BT for most uses)
(I have one - but prefer my BT for most uses)
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How much would you pay to get your finger(s) back?Rand
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like your thumb."Comment
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I dont like the money argument because it can be translated to so many other things.
If i was that concerned about my fingers or money, I'd sell all my power tools and come out ahead on both counts. I could lose a finger with 75% of the things in my shop.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2Comment
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Cochese makes a good point. THey say there's 38,000 accidents in the US every year involving table saws. Assuming there's 38,000,000 table saws of all types then in each year you have a 1 in 1000 chance of being injured.
While that includes both expensive, new and old, junk saws it also includes both novice and experienced users, smart and dumb. So given you chance of being injured is 1/1000 then it doesn't really make sense to spend an extra $300 for the saw. unless you expect your injuries to exceed $300,000. And if you're smart and have a safer saw, your chances are even lower. A lot of those injuries are like the Osario case, an inexpensive saw being misused by an untrained, inexperienced worker lacking rip fence and guard - that probably raises the chance of injury to 1 in 100.
And like Cochese says, if you're really worried about the money or the injury, give up the hobby.Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-02-2012, 04:47 PM.
Loring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questionsComment
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The odds don't have to be in your favor not to have an accident. You could be that 1 in any number.
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I heard of a wise doctor who would say, "The chances of something going wrong with this operation are 1 in a 100. But of course, if it happens to you, it's 100%."Loring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questionsComment
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Being older and slower, I would buy the SS. I have 40+ yrs. of using TS and had just one kick back and did it hurt good. I've been lucky, no safe when using a TS but, there might be a lapse in judgement and a accident can happen quickly. I've always told my students work safe, respect the equipment UR using and if U don't know or understand the process ASK FIRST B4 USING THE EQUIPMENT. So if money is not an issue why not get the safest.Comment
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jabe, sawstop will kick back like any other saw. its only major difference is the "flesh-sensing" blade brake which will stop the blade quickly and destructively if it encounters a piece of meat-like (conductive) tissue.Loring in Katy, TX USA
If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questionsComment
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Last October, I cut off the tip of my left thumb on my table saw -- lost about a half inch. I was lucky, I could have lost several fingers. That trip to the emergency room cost $4000, and no surgery was involved. They seldom can reattach successfully. That bill could have been much higher. They just cleaned up the cut, bandaged it, and home I went. (Man was my heart pounding the first time I used the table saw a few months later.)
I'll be getting a SawStop in the next year when I retire. In the meantime, I use two GRR-Rippers to stay safe.
Cost is not a consideration for me after this experience. However, I do not view the SawStop as overpriced, after seeing one in operation at my local specialty hardwoods store. Premium priced, yes, like any of the higher end cabinet saws. But not overpriced.LeeComment
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This July I almost cut the tip off of my right index finger in a CMS. I was holding the wood with my right hand, incorrectly, because I injured my left hand the day before (5 stiches in left, 12 in right). I was trimming a room which I finished a week later. The index finger is working but still not completely healed. My portion of the bill was a lot less than $4,000 including several trips to a hand surgeon (probably closer to $1000). I went deep enough to cut off a little of the bone.
I've only been injured by power tools twice, a CMS and a biscuit joiner. Both times I was doing something I knew I shouldn't be doing. I plan to stop doing stupid things but I do not plan to buy any Saw Stop saw at least until it stops being overpriced. It is priced consistent with premium saws but it isn't built like them from what I've read.
The force on the saw when a blade stops is a function of the rate of deacceleration (f=ma). I am pretty sure the saw stop results in a faster deacceleration of the blade than a knot or nail and certainly faster than pitch. I am not saying this means it tears up the saw, I am just noting that the activation of the cartridge is potentially more damaging than the other reasons a blade might stop, at least in terms of force. The belts would probably prefer a very rapid deacceleration. The bearings and frame would seem to be the parts at risk. Hopefully nobody will activate cartridges enough to find out. I agree the cartridge and blade risk is cheaper than hospital charges but what about when it fires because the wood is wet?
I am reconfiguring my BT3100 for my new smaller shop in the new house (latest is I may just claim a stall of the garage which will eventually expand a stall). I don't plan to get rid of it anytime soon. I do plan to use my track saw more and my table saw less. So the extension rails are off and the base will get smaller with totally locking casters for easy movement. I will still have router table capability in an accessory table but also plan to move the homemade screw height adjustable router table.
JimComment
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I recently replaced my Craftsman version of the BT3 with a Powermatic 64A.
After much thought about how space efficent and well designed the BT3 is I really couldn't justify the new saw. The only way that I could talk myself into the change was to take delivery of the Powermatic and immedately take it off its stand and roller base and start building a full saw cabinet on casters. At least the acre that it takes up in my shop will be utilized with drawers and other storage features.
I considered the SS but have a hard time with lawyers and trolls and really get tensed up when someone has a product that is a safety benefit that should be licensed to all mfg.'s at a "reasonable" price and is trying to corner the market.
Ill spend the extra money and buy or build a shark guard type blade guard.
capncarlComment
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Where have you read that? I've seen nothing about poor build quality about the SS saws. In fact, I'm heard they're built very well so they can handle the incredible forces from the breaking that you noted. Their arbor and bearings are much larger than for comparable saws so they don't bend/ break after triggering the break mechanism. Now I heard this from the Woodcraft employee where I was looking at the saw, but I don't think he was lying.
I would agree that while SS is expensive, it's in line with the Powermatic and Delta premium saws. While I don't like the tactics Gass has used to legislate it's use, I do think it's a great technology and if I ever have teh extra funds to spend north of $2k on a new saw, it'll probably be a SS (or equivalent, by the time I'm ready to buy it may be liscensed).Comment
LCHIEN
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