router bit question...

[LCHIEN]

Comment about the router table linked: The little miter gauge they supply is pictured to push the work from the wrong direction as discussed in previous posts - on a table work should be fed from right to left and this picture is dead wrong.

I had a similar sears table at one time and its too small for anything but real small jobs. Mine actually had some 8" or so stamped sheet steel extension wings that bolted to the sides and had braces to the legs and that was totally impossible to get them all ruler flat across the top -all the edge flanges and stamped tables were too flimsy.

The size of pieces you can cut on a router table depends not only on the length but how long it can be unsupported. Too thin and it will droop and curve at the table top and not lie flat. Too thick = too heavy and it will be impossible to route because the ends will be dragging down and wanting to lift the piece off the table. Just right and you can apply enough force and the piece be rigid enough to keep it flat across the top of the table and still control it.

In routers all the cuts are made with respect to the table top so if your piece does not lie totally flat on the table with no gaps and no rocking when you press down anywhere, you are going to have problems with gaps where the router did not cut deeply enough and this really shows on any edge work.


I've seen pretty much the same table sold by Vermont American (VA) for many years, its probably VA that manufactures these for Craftsman. VA's version:

also skil sells it too.
Bosch owns Skil, VA, Rotozip, and Dremel currently.
Skil's:

[steveg]

that's a small table.

I know it...

I always find it useful to make a dry run with the router unplugged to make sure my clamps and nearby stuff doesn't get in the way when I run a long thing thru it. DAMHIKT

That's funny! Anyway, dry run makes sense...

For either table or handheld you can do this cut with a guide (or fence) or just using the bearing. Me, I'd just use the bearing for a guide.

Interesting...I'd have thought the edge guide might make it easier than just the bearing...why would you prefer NOT to use the guide?

Buy some cheap white pine like a 6 x 1 and practice the cuts on it before you do your oak. Like I said, routering is a lot about getting the feel for the tool and cut.

I will definitely be practicing the cuts before running the 1x12.

Also remember the feed directions all change when routing with a table or handheld because the effective rotation direction changes with the router upside down. With a board clamped and the edge you want to route facing you, you need to move the router left to right, handheld. I did this recently on a 12-foot 1x12 clamped to two sawhorses on my patio. No room to swing it in my shop on my router table. On a table, with the wood between you and the bit, you want to feed from right to left.

Got it...

Like someone said, if routing three sides of your planks, do the short end cross-grain cuts first. You will almost always get a chipout breaking off with the grain on the exit side. Usually the chipout is smaller than the size of the roundover you are making so it'll all be cut off when routing the long side with the grain. Very careful feathering of the cut, down to almost nothing will help alleviate it, but its almost unavoidable unless you have a backup piece of wood. If you practice as I suggested, you'll probably see what I'm talking about.

Got it -- but what did you mean when you said "unless you have a backup piece of wood..."

One final note about the router bit sets: The economics may change if the user has a single speed, 1/4" only router (sounds like anyone you know?) and finds he may want to change to a better router after doing some work. If he buys a 1/4" set to fit his original router then he is stuck with a bunch of 1/4" shank bits when he really wants half-inch shank bits... just warning. I only own four routers including a 70's era single speed 1/4" craftsman router and a survey I did here some years back showed the forum members with routers have an average of 3.5 routers. So upgrading routers is a surprisingly common thing.

Thanks...I've been considering upgrading also, and WILL, if I find myself using it for more than just this one project (this stair tread). The one I have looked at, though,

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-12-am...4&blockType=G4

Accepts both 1/4" and 1/2" bits...is this not the case with other, better brands?

Steve

[LCHIEN]

ha, you need to read my BT3 FAQ - the router section. In the world of routers there's the cheapies, the OKs and the big dogs.
The cheapies include Craftsman, Ryobi, skil, B&D
The OKs include a few brands, but the big dogs these days are Bosch 1617evspk, Porter Cables 890 series, Dewalt 618 series and maybe the HItachi M12VC series, all with interchangeable bases fixed and plunge bases, variable speed and dual collets. In general the quality is high and the engineering very good. The big dogs only cost about $200 or so, so the step up from a so-so router like the Craftsman to the top end is not all that much. Compare to a table saw where the cheapies are $300 and the big dogs are $2000. I can afford a big dog router (I have the Bosch 1617evs and it is swweeeet.)

as for the guide, using the bearing is quite enough. It will make sure you don't cut too deep. It will keep the perfect positioning of the bit to the edge and you can rotate the router a bit and not screw up anything. With the edge guide you have not only to keep one point to the wood edge, you have to keep the whole 6" long guide prefectly against the edge. Why make it more complex??? The first few passes you just whiz by and press just hard enough to get a nice whizzzzz as you take off the first 1/8th inch or so. The bearing or edge guide won't touch... but you do have to steer the edge guide so the ends don't scrape. anyway you get the picture. Try it both ways if you want on your practice piece. do what ever feels best. Good thing and interesting thing about woodworking is that there's usually more than one way to skin the cat, picking the best way is part of the fun.

The router bearings are very precise. After you make what you think is the last pass, make as many more passes (and you can go pretty quickly) pressing the bearing firmly to the edge, until you don't hear any cutting noises (ZZZZTTT!) being made. That way you will have a clean, smooth edge the whole distance.

[LCHIEN]

end grain tearout on routing and backup board



here's a picture from the web (Credit: Woodworkers Journal) showing end grain tearout you see where's he's just done a roundover (or maybe a cove?) using a handheld router and on the rigth end (remember left to right handheld) you can see the splintering. When you are going to route the long edge next this will be routed away and you won't see it. But, if its going to be visible, you have to clamp a backer board of equal height (and ends flush) to the right side of the board being routed (to support the edge grain). Then the joint will route cleanly and the sacrificial backer board will be chipped out. remove the backer board (or you can rip off 3/16" on a TS) and you'll have a splinter-free edge.

you don't have to use a new backer board for each instance, using one with the same profile over and over will still do the backer job. And it only needs to be an inch or so wide.

this tearout will happen approaching 100% of the time in cross grain routes in my experience.

here's a pic of a backer board - he made a dado slot instead of an edge profile but the principle is the same.

[steveg]

Loring --

On your post about the tables, it makes me want to go back and think about mounting my router to my saw's table. I can get the router mounting kit, here...

http://www.localaccess.com/1942/ryobi/bt3000-acc.html

...for $60 shipped.

Would this be a better way to run this board? It would eliminate my need for a separate router table, as I see it, and would be a better/larger option anyway than what I have.

Steve

[LCHIEN]

here's the whole article on router tearout:
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/re...RouterTearout/

[LCHIEN]

Loring --

On your post about the tables, it makes me want to go back and think about mounting my router to my saw's table. I can get the router mounting kit, here...

http://www.localaccess.com/1942/ryobi/bt3000-acc.html

...for $60 shipped.

Would this be a better way to run this board? It would eliminate my need for a separate router table, as I see it, and would be a better/larger option anyway than what I have.

Steve

well that's cheaper than Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...r+kit&_sacat=0
Whole review & critique of the router mounting kit in the BT3 FAQ. have you read it?

my quick comment is that the BT3 without extension rails and extenison tables would support a long board on one end but not the other end.

I think if you are talking (i forget the length) but more than 5-6 feet do it handheld.

[LCHIEN]

are you doing a radius or a square corner on your step??? Routers are good for radiused corners using a pattern and a flush trim bit. With the bearing (but not the edge guide) you can put a continuous roundover on the whole thing.

[steveg]

Looks like I'll be using a "backer board" for those end grain cuts. Thanks for that picture and link.

Yes, I had read your FAQ section on the router mount kit. While you said that some more experienced guys do NOT like it, I definitely think it would be an improvement for me, over that little table I have, but apparently not as good as a good router table. BUT -- since this 1x12 I'm cutting is 8' long, you would suggest hand-held anyway, you said.

You asked about "squared off or radiused" corners on my stair tread. Planned on square corners, since I only will have about 1" of overhang, which wouldn't allow me much of a radius. My already-built tread (the plywood "subfloor" of the tread, that I was going to just carpet over) is 11" wide. BUT -- since my riser will also be 3/4" oak, I can butt the tread to the riser, thus leaving 10 1/4". If I recall, my oak piece I plan to use for the tread is 11 1/2", so that's all the overhang I'll have (without some re-engineering). Still, I didn't think I'd want much more than 1" overhang, as I'd think there'd be some risk of the overhang cracking, due to repeated stepping on it, if there were TOO much overhang (since I'm only using 3/4" material), no? Bottom line, not sure if I could do a radiused edge...at least not much of one...maybe a very SMALL radius...

Steve

[steveg]

Hmm...check this out...from Robert's Sales and Service (same place I linked to for the router mounting kit...)

FEATURES:
FITS RYOBI MODELS BT3000 AND BT3100
The KIT INCLUDES
1 Set of Casters
1 Dust Bag
1 Dado Throat Plate
2 Zero Clearance Throat Plate
1 Miter Clamping Kit
1 Router Mounter Kit
1 Miter Slot Table
All Mounting Hardware

ALL OF THIS WOULD RETAIL $354.00
YOU CAN SAVE $169.00
PART NUMBER BT3KIT
PRICE $79.00
BLUE LIGHT SALE
NEW PRICE
+
SHIPPING

Seems like a pretty good deal to me? Shipping would be $10 to my house, so for $89, not bad...

Steve

[LCHIEN]

the whole accessory kit is reviewed in the FAQ.

[LCHIEN]

Looks like I'll be using a "backer board" for those end grain cuts. Thanks for that picture and link.

Yes, I had read your FAQ section on the router mount kit. While you said that some more experienced guys do NOT like it, I definitely think it would be an improvement for me, over that little table I have, but apparently not as good as a good router table. BUT -- since this 1x12 I'm cutting is 8' long, you would suggest hand-held anyway, you said.

You asked about "squared off or radiused" corners on my stair tread. Planned on square corners, since I only will have about 1" of overhang, which wouldn't allow me much of a radius. My already-built tread (the plywood "subfloor" of the tread, that I was going to just carpet over) is 11" wide. BUT -- since my riser will also be 3/4" oak, I can butt the tread to the riser, thus leaving 10 1/4". If I recall, my oak piece I plan to use for the tread is 11 1/2", so that's all the overhang I'll have (without some re-engineering). Still, I didn't think I'd want much more than 1" overhang, as I'd think there'd be some risk of the overhang cracking, due to repeated stepping on it, if there were TOO much overhang (since I'm only using 3/4" material), no? Bottom line, not sure if I could do a radiused edge...at least not much of one...maybe a very SMALL radius...

Steve

well, the step's apron would have to be radiused as well...

[cabinetman]

You've received a lot of information, and it can get confusing. Some of it has been repeated several times, and worded differently. It may take re-reading some of the advice to clear up how its meant, or give a better mental image.

Routing is a basic machining process that produces a cut. We have mentioned several ways to get an edge profiled. It can be done on a table with just a bit with a bearing. It can be done on a table using a fence. It can be done using the router handheld with a bearing. It can be done handheld without a bearing and a straight edge. It can be done with an edge guide mounted to the base or frame of the router...a basic edge guide may look like this:
.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...59D24&first=45

It is merely a guide that is adjustable to the distance to the bit. It could be just a simple shop made edge guide like this:
.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...B829&first=133

I'm not suggesting you buy this guide, I'm just showing it for the edge guide's ability to be modified with an add on fence to the edge to give it more stability:
.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...8D04&first=547

The point to the guide is that all it does is position the bit from where it cuts. Several types of edge guides can be seen here:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...de&FORM=HDRSC2

.

[cabinetman]

Not sure if this has a "mouse hole fence" or not, as I don't know what that is.

Steve

The "mouse hole" is nothing more than a hole in the fence on a router table to allow for the bit, as seen here:
.

http://atelierdubricoleur.wordpress....fence-options/

Router table fences can be very simple. The table itself can be any substrate, and Melamine makes for a good substrate. A substrate, like a smooth plywood, MDF, or particle board covered with a plastic laminate like Formica will also work very well.

If making your own table and fence, the fence can be mounted and made adjustable by installing "T" nuts:
.

http://woodworker.com/8-32x14-steel-...s&searchmode=2

And using knobs with threaded studs like this:

http://woodworker.com/fullpres.asp?PARTNUM=862-186

The fence itself can be a single guide with a "mouse hole", or can be a split fence where each side is adjustable. The major use for a split fence would be to do "jointing" procedures, and it could be more trouble than they are worth. There are easier ways to utilize a fence for jointing.

.

[jdon]

Thanks...I've been considering upgrading also, and WILL, if I find myself using it for more than just this one project (this stair tread). The one I have looked at, though,

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-12-am...4&blockType=G4

Steve-

As long as you're considering upgrading, seriously think about getting a set with a plunge base. I'm pretty certain that this http://www.sears.com/craftsman-12-am...4&blockType=G4 is the same router as the one you're thinking of, but also comes with the plunge base for only $20 more (the same as the cost of one bit!). It comes with both 1/4" and 1/2" collets, as well as an edge guide which is simple but workable.

I use a fixed base for ~3/4 of my routing- rounding over, dovetails, etc., but for some tasks- template routing, mortising, stopped dadoes,...- a plunge router is easier and safer than the fixed base. IMHO I think that down the road you'd regret not getting the plunge base.

Also, the "Blue Light Sale" sounds like a good deal, considering everything that's included. BTW, that Craftsman router mounts onto the adapter plate using the pre-drilled holes, a definite plus.