The future of woodworking and DIY...

[dbhost]

Since I am not blessed with kids, all I can do thinking about the future of our world is look around at nephews, nieces, their friends, neighbors kids, so on and so forth, and unfortunatley what I see in the media. And I see a VERY mixed picture of what the future looks like.

The kids of folks that I know, no matter the gender, are for the most part, although not unversally, very much pro DIY, particularly when it comes to using reclaimed materials. Some notably exceptions though...

#1. Auto and Truck repair. Yes most of them can change a tire, change oil, replace a belt, that sort of thing. But, and I get it, lots of old guys are stumbling at this too, once it gets to the stage of the idiot lights came on, they want to take it in. I literally showed my neighbors kid a couple of days ago how to diagnose a check engine light using an $18.00 bluetooth OBD2 adapter and a smart phone, as well as how to find the best prices on parts, and in this case, how to swap out an evaporative emissions purge tank control valve. Showed what the diagnostic time and R&R time for a job like that would be at a regular shop. (You mean I would have to pay $400.00 to troubleshoot and replace a $20.00 part that was easy to get to and swap out?). I think I have them sold.
#2. Woodworking. This is where things are interesting. These kids did NOT have shop class growing up like I did. And more than half of them didn't have a parent involved in the hobby. It was almost always an aunt, uncle, neighbor etc... they saw building stuff that sparked the interest. OR, and I kid you not, they see these youtubers building tiny homes with all the built ins, and they want to do that since they are convinced real estate / home of any sort other than a tiny home / RV will be well out of their reach. They are doing some nice work, but I wonder if they will keep up in the long run. With the valife / tiny home crowd. I wonder if there is a market for basically a ShopSmith sort of setup hit with a shrink ray... Basically downsize stuff and multi function it. Sorry thinking out loud here...
#3. Reclaiming / redecorating. Crafting. I am seeing young people snap up cast offs from book cases, and chairs, to flower pots and magazine racks. Anything that can be sanded down, modified here and there, and refinished. They are giving me some good competition. Particularly the flower pots thing. A neighbors kid has taken to picking up discarded, intact but ugly flower pots, hitting them with a new finish of whatever flavor, and putting them back to use for his parents house... Looks really good too...

And then there is what I see on the various blogs, podcasts, news stories etc... Crowds of kids that wouldn't know what to do with their hands, and couldn't be bothered if it was dirty or made you sweat ever at any point in the activity.

What truly frightens me is at least hte media portrayals of the youth these days, seems to think that the majority of our youth fall in to the latter category.

So I guess I am just hoping that maybe others are seeing promising signs that the talking heads are lying to me. That there is a future in the DIY pursuits for generations to come. That the hot rodders axiom of built, not bought will keep on for many, many years to come, and that our world isn't becoming more disposable...

[Jim Frye]

I have two grandsons. One is 18, in college and working loading trucks for UPS to pay for school. No interest, nor time for hobbies. My other grandson is getting married and just bought a home. All of a sudden he's becoming a DIYer at 27. There may be hope yet. My Son and SIL have no interest in working wood, but then both work over 60 hours a week. My shop will likely go in an estate sale when I pass. I've sort of become comfortable with the idea.

Update: SWMBO just informed me the grandson and future wife want IKEA furniture for Christmas and housewarming. That means he'll have working knowledge of a screwdriver and an allen wrench! They're getting a folding Little Giant ladder from us.

[dbhost]

I have two grandsons. One is 18, in college and working loading trucks for UPS to pay for school. No interest, nor time for hobbies. My other grandson is getting married and just bought a home. All of a sudden he's becoming a DIYer at 27. There may be hope yet. My Son and SIL have no interest in working wood, but then both work over 60 hours a week. My shop will likely go in an estate sale when I pass. I've sort of become comfortable with the idea.

I am actually working on an updated full shop inventory for estate reasons. Due to health reasons I kind of expect to outlive my wife (family history of serious common medical issues), HOWEVER, If my wife outlives me she has no use for my shop. I can't find the workshop file although it may be in my laptop that my wife is using... I have an old copy online in Google sheets.

The question is. How should she value for resale for example a modified Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector, or 14" bandsaw? What about a loaded out BT3100? I am listing what I paid, and giving the suggestion to ask at least 50% what the current model sells for, on the modded stuff, add something for the mods, but how much? Used 14" bandsaws in any sort of usable state is rare around here these days. LOTS of ancient Craftsman and B&D 3 wheelers but that is about it.

[Jim Frye]

Since most everything in my shop has a Ryobi label on it, most of it won't have much desirability. Also, since most of it wasn't actually purchased by me, it won't be a great financial loss if it sells cheap.

[dbhost]

My woodworking equipment leans heavily toward Ryobi, and Central Machinery / Chicago Electric. But my auto repair stuff leans heavily toward Snap On, Mac, and Matco... So WIDE swing there... I have a little bit of HF stuff here and there in the mechanics toolbox, but it is limited to extensions, one breaker bar, and some ultra cheap ratcheting wrenches that are super useful for tight spaces with big hands...

I think my best suggestion for my wife would be to get one of those estate sale estimators to come in and give her valuations / market the stuff. Unless we get a whole Zechariah / Elizabeth thing going on at our age, direct heirs are not going to happen. And if my wife is here after I am gone, she can use the money anyway...

[capncarl]

We don’t want our wives to sell our stuff for what we told them we paid for it!

mostly, I don’t see much hope for this generation of spawns. My next door neighbor is a machinist that works 60+ every week. He is a good jack of all trades. He never has either of his 2 boys assist him with auto maint, yard mowing, painting, picking up pine cones….. nothing. I’ve only seen one of his spawns on his zero turn 1 time just to give it a spin. Now I only see one of them outside hitting a golf ball around while he does yard work. Pittyful. One time when he was in my shop chatting his 16 yr old came over and told him he was hungry, would he please make him a sandwich? Dang kids would starve if someone didn’t make them something to eat! Absolutely no chance of them surviving!

[atgcpaul]

How much shop class did you really have, though? I'm certain I'm younger than most of you here, and I did have shop class in middle school but it was once or twice a week and most of that was spent drafting. When we did make a wood project, the instructor didn't let us use any of the tools except for a hammer. I don't think that shop time would really instill a love of building for most people. I always had that interest which I'm sure I picked up from my Dad.

I also work with a lot of people around my age so probably similar upbringing and schooling. I'd say only a fraction of them are interested in DIY. Growing up our neighbor across the street didn't do any DIY. My Dad said he was a city boy growing up so never picked it up. We have renters in our house now. I have to pay for all their repairs and I even pay someone to cut the grass. With a growing number of renters, what's the point of DIY?

Anyway, I think some people (similar minded like us on this forum) have an interest and an aptitude for DIY, etc, whereas other people are going to use their time and talents elsewhere. We may spend hours on a project, feel proud of what we made, but that time wasn't exactly free. The other crowd will pay to have it done but will have been able to use that time for something else.

So I don't think we're doomed. There are people born into every generation with skill sets that could be relatable to what we have just on different things. And for whatever is forgotten, I can probably go to YouTube and figure it out.

Paul

[leehljp]

I really think Shop Class had a lot of influence in the past that is missing today. I was thinking about this (in a different way) for the past two weeks and why it is this way. I have 8 grandsons and two granddaughters. Of the 8 grandsons, only one (age 16) is truly gifted in observation and analyzing the situation in context, and coming up with a dream, idea or fix. Two of my 3 daughters are somewhat gifted in observational and fix/make it skills. My youngest daughter has 3 sons that are good with robotics and a moderate "mechanical/electrical mindset" but that is due to their academic pursuit at their school.

There is a difference in academically taught mechanical/electrical versus one from sheer observational deductive reasoning skills. Again, my youngest daughter has a physics degree but it is mostly academics. Although she knows the different laws of physics, gravity, fluid dynamics, motion etc, etc, - she does not fully understand the practical application. Such as - when riding a bicycle, for a long time she did not know that you had to lean as you turned. She had several wrecks and thought the bike had something loose. When I discovered her problem (she was in high school in Japan) I told her, "you have to LEAN into the turn!" To her, she had to be taught that; to me, it was a natural law of physics and I did this instinctively the first time I rode a bike. (I learned this as a 2 or 3 year old, standing up in the back seat of a car, and leaning as we went around a curve. Seatbelts have taken this experience away ) In other ways, my daughter has exhibited similar responses. I have asked, "you have a physics degree, why don't you know that?" The reason is my "foundational learning" was from observational and practical experience, while hers was from academics.

To me, Physics is the science of the way things work or react; to her physics is the laws without necessarily the understanding of practical application - ergo: Academics.

Back to kids. I was introduced to a phrase in my church planting days overseas: "The way you start out determines the way you end up." That applies in a broad spectrum of subjects. When Academics become the focus way before learning the observational, deductive reasoning skills and practical applications, then everything is seen first through the academic eyes with a lack of understanding of the practical. Then there is little interest in the practical world around them.

As DB wrote in the #3 above, there seems to be a difference in kids who are sent out of the house and made to play in the yard and neighborhood versus those that like TV, video games, reading books etc. There is a lot to be said for neighborhood exploration and discovery. And for shop classes in high school.

[dbhost]

How much shop class did you really have, though? ...

I was in school through the 1980s. Shop class in both Jr. High and High school was 3x per week. Mon, Wed, Fri, and in Jr. High it was hand tools only. Pwer tools were not a thing for us until high school.

I made a few projects, but not sure I remember all of them. What I do recall is a pencil box. An acrylic gift box. An ash tray. And yes it was intentionally an ash tray, my Dad smoked at the time, A hall tree, And finally interior trim bits to repair a 1965 VW Westfalia camper. I.E. the flip out from the door table and associated cabinet were busted and I rebuilt them in wood shop class.

Auto shop was similar. Did brakes, tune ups etc... on my moms old AMC Hornet wagon...

To tag onto Lee's statement as well... or just generally chime in. Something odd is happening in our school district. Shop classes are making a comeback due to parental pressure on the school board. They never liquidated, there were classes of sorts. "Construction technology".

Honestly, if I felt qualified, and didn't need to earn more than they make, I think I would like being a high school shop teacher...

[twistsol]

School boards are finally beginning to realize that not every kid is going to go to college and become and accountant, doctor, or lawyer. It's also possible that some of them have read the numerous studies that clearly show that students do better in math and science when they have a practical application of the theory ... shop classes.

In 7th grade we had a trimester each of printing manually setting type and producing notepads, business cards, and the final project was setting a two full pages of type to print a copy of our final essay for each student in your class. Second trimester was metal shop which included soldering a flour scoop and building a tool box with spot welds, and third trimester was wood shop where we used the wide belt sander to flatten panel glue ups and the radial arm saw both with one to one supervision by the teacher. The rest was hand tools.

8th grade the school went back to semesters so another semester of wood shop, you had to choose a project where either bandsaw, tablesaw and jointer were used or just the bandsaw and lathe.

You could take up to three years of wood shop in high school.

My kids went to the same school and industrial arts classes were offered, but significantly scaled back, and not required. They do have a construction class where the class designs and builds a house that is sold at the end of the school year.

Purely anecdotal, but I think many kids in rural areas grow up working on machinery of all kinds and are familiar with tools. Woodworking isn't as prevalent, but everyone I know in our old town had a tablesaw or radial arm saw and some other functional tools tucked away in the corner of a barn or other outbuilding. Each year when I helped the robotics team build their obstacle courses, every kid with one exception had at least some experience with the primary tools in my shop.

[dbhost]

School boards are finally beginning to realize that not every kid is going to go to college and become and accountant, doctor, or lawyer. It's also possible that some of them have read the numerous studies that clearly show that students do better in math and science when they have a practical application of the theory ... shop classes.

In 7th grade we had a trimester each of printing manually setting type and producing notepads, business cards, and the final project was setting a two full pages of type to print a copy of our final essay for each student in your class. Second trimester was metal shop which included soldering a flour scoop and building a tool box with spot welds, and third trimester was wood shop where we used the wide belt sander to flatten panel glue ups and the radial arm saw both with one to one supervision by the teacher. The rest was hand tools.

8th grade the school went back to semesters so another semester of wood shop, you had to choose a project where either bandsaw, tablesaw and jointer were used or just the bandsaw and lathe.

You could take up to three years of wood shop in high school.

My kids went to the same school and industrial arts classes were offered, but significantly scaled back, and not required. They do have a construction class where the class designs and builds a house that is sold at the end of the school year.

Purely anecdotal, but I think many kids in rural areas grow up working on machinery of all kinds and are familiar with tools. Woodworking isn't as prevalent, but everyone I know in our old town had a tablesaw or radial arm saw and some other functional tools tucked away in the corner of a barn or other outbuilding. Each year when I helped the robotics team build their obstacle courses, every kid with one exception had at least some experience with the primary tools in my shop.

Common sense used to tell us that not every child is university material, and if everyone is a doctor, laywer, or engieer, how with the houses get built, wiring get fixed, and shower leaks get fixed.

And yes, when theory is applied students learn MUCH better than just being presented theories.

When I was in school, all "shop classes" were under the industrial arts / vocational education banner. There were also "Domestic Education" A.K.A. home economics classes. I was in the first year of 6th grade students when both boys and girls were required to take both. We were required to take 2 semesterd of shop class, and 2 semesters of home economics in high school. We could take them at any time as an elective. My friends and I typically went between auto shop, and wood shop classes...

[Jim Frye]

I recall the shop classes I had in Jr, High, and my dad wasn't much into that vein (he used to use a circular saw to trim trees). The trigger for me was the finish carpenter I worked with for a short time after high school. This man built kitchen cabinets on site and could cope a miter by eye with just a coping saw.

[leehljp]

My youngest daughter's two oldest boys, ages 13, 11, are into robotics. For Christmas, I bought a couple of gifts for them and am going work with them in the assembly over 3 to 4 days:

Oldest boy gets this one, it is add-on-able: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Add-on-able: - two or three or four can be chained together, but he will have to buy the extras himself.

11 year old gets this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Their mom advised me that the oldest sometimes loses interest if he can't get to the point quick (which I knew). But the youngest is tenacious and focused.

I have some tubes of CA, some graphite lube, a razor knife, sandpaper and small sanding strips. Hopefully we are going to have a ball!

. . . and I hope I can get them interested in wood machines. Their dad has a table saw and my Hitachi Miter saw. So they are around tools.


HERE is MINE: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I don't get to begin putting it together until I get back home from visiting with my three girls over Christmas/New Years.

[Carlos]

Growing up poor meant learning how to fix everything (and my dad already did that in Cuba before we got here). Part of my happiness with working my way out of that is having cars under warranty. I just don't want to deal with them. I drop it off and forget it.

That said, a 1972 350 two-stroke is arriving any day now for a project. But my daily drivers? Nah, they can fix it.

Also, buying a Tesla made me never want to drive ICE ever again. I hate normal cars now. This is another thing kids will grow up with. And I think if they learn to drive in a Tesla, they will NOT be able to drive ICE. So many dumb limitations and friction points that we all take for granted and never think about. Until you drive something that does it better.

[twistsol]

I learned a trade first, out of necessity, and worked my way through college as a lineman. Nothing ever fails in nice weather so I spent a lot of time on top of a pole in the rain/sleet/snow in the Pacific northwest.