Gun Control through Ammo Control - Fact or Fiction

[chopnhack]

Well, another thread rekindled my interest in target shooting... Thanks, as if I had money to blow at the moment

Anyways, looking around at the various websites and lo and behold the ammo shortage of '09 seems to still be around? I also looked at personal armor plating and many sites are stating out of stock or long backorder. Interesting events going on behind the scenes apparently.

When you can find ammunition, the price is far more than it has ever been, some cases are just down right astronomical. Some talk about supply and demand. Do you really think the DHS's order of over 100 million rounds a year is putting that much of a dent in production capabilities?

Is this the way they will disarm the U.S. by not having ammo attainable?

What do you think is causing the shortage?

[cwsmith]

What I think, is that this is a highly political subject. Do we really want to get into this kind of discussion on this forum?

With all due respect, I say this not as a slap to you personally, but I've seen this kind of discussion over on the Ridgid forum and it does get quite heated.

I do think that the current purchase (not sure how true that is though) by Homeland Security would NOT put a dent in the normal supply/manufacturing capabilities of this country.

It seems pretty evident that the extreme rhetoric of the times is causing panic and thus like all things viewed in this manner, the shelves are raked bare rather quickly.

Let's just leave it at that, unless of course the forum moderators wish to crack open the rules on this particular subject.

Respectfully,

CWS

[sweensdv]

The question and poll in itself is a fair one and not political. It could turn into a political issue only if someone turns it into one. If asking a question about ammunition is going to be deemed political just by asking the question then I want any and all references to SawStop saws automatically declared political from here on out. Kinda ridiculous now isn't that?

[JimD]

Are reloading supplies similarly limited? If not, reloading is fun and saves money even when ammunition is not greatly in demand. It doesn't solve a need for rimfires but is possible for centerfires and is not difficult.

Jim

[capncarl]

I agree, a touchy subject that should be dropped the second it gets political. That said, I visit every gun show that comes withing a reasonable driving distance and have seen ammo as well as reloading supplies dissapear from the shows. Granted the prices are totaly unreal, but the ammo dealers that use to take up numerous tables selling reloaded ammo in bags, every caliber ever made, are gone now. Surely that is not being bought up by the gov? No reload supplies are to be found at a show, nothing, not even projectiles. It is going somewhere, must be a lot of hoarders with full coffers. It is strange that no military calibers are scarce. I think that instead of investing in gold a lot of people have seen that investing in bullets has a much better return on investment.
capncarl

[cwsmith]

OKay on the non-political perspective.

So, I too have noticed... even down to 22-caliber, everything just seems to be gone from the shelves in the stores that I visit. Even Walmart!

While I do like target shooting, I don't hunt... but to see the shelves empty is a bit strange, at least in my lifetime.

CWS

[dbhost]

Okay folks, my fault. I moderated this thread. The subject itself is very touchy in the current climate. But so far so good.

Steering away from the policies and parties issues, I do have some thoughts on the issue though....

It seems to me that there is a large amount of hoarding going on. I have noticed that ammunition, scopes, etc.. are all in short supply... I have even noted a similar run on archery equipment and supplies. At least in my area.

[chopnhack]

Thanks for keeping it civil, guys.

CWS, I don't take any offense at what you said. I am truly interested in hearing what members of the forum have to say on this. I got the 100 million rounds per year from DHS's letter answering a query by a senator regarding budget concerns. I apologize and will correct the first entry to read 100 million. Please let me know if that changes your opinion on production capabilities.

Thanks Db for letting the polite conversation continue ;-)

[Pappy]

Probaly most of the shortage is due to hoarding. With some of the recent gun laws eneacted, gun owners may be worried that ammo purchases may be regulated in the future.

[Black wallnut]

I'm going with "other" and this has happened before. I believe it is due to panic buying by some. Seems like every time there are serious threats to the 2nd. amendment that there is a shortage. It makes me glad that I have too many other hobbies at the moment and have enough already loaded that I do not have to pay the extortion prices charged currently.

[lago]

I think also that part of the shortage is caused by all the new gun owners. They bought a gun and needed to buy ammo for it. Those that can't find ammo may start reloading. I have a neighbor that has been hunting for years and has asked me to help him get started in reloading. Not only are the components not available, it was difficult for him to find a starter kit with press and some of the other components.

I talked to an outfitter this past week about a prairie dog shoot that we have scheduled in June. He has had some cancellations since the shooters can't find bullets for reloading. I haven't been to my local range in the past few months but I bet that it not very busy at all right now. Prior to December, it was extremely busy, especially the pistol ranges. Looked like some were teaching their wife/girl friend to shoot for the CHL.

I will see what it will be like in about 2 weeks. My son will be coming over with one of my 10 yr old grandsons, who wants to shoot a real gun. I will start him out on my .22 that I ordered from Sears via mail-order for about $16 and I was about 15 at the time.

Lago

[cwsmith]

It's funny how times change. When I was twelve, I got my first BB gun and when I turned 14 my folks bought me my first 22. As I mentioned in another thread, my Dad was a WWII veteran, and I never saw him pick up a gun or have any interest whatsoever. Yet he was the one who presented me with both those rifles as Christmas presents and later gave me his war souvenir rifle.

He never gave me instructions as I recall, and maybe it's that I just don't remember, but I think I would. We lived in the country, but had neighbors up and down the road, rather close too, as it was a small developement. Nobody ever complained about me out in the back yard target practicing into the hill that rose immediately behind the house.

I hear remarks about ammunition being very expensive, but I don't know what it is today. I bought about 500 rounds of 22-LR last year, I think itw was only something like $10 or $12, IIRC. When I was a teenager, 50-rounds of 22-LR was something like 79-cents at the local country store. While most things seems to cost at least ten times as much today as it did back then. With that in mind, those same 50 rounds would cost about $8.00 today, and I think a 333 round box of Winchester 22-LR Xpress were only a little more than that price last year. I don't own a higher caliber piece, so I have no idea how those prices fare.

Regarding the "Million round issue", I suppose for that caliber it might cause some short supply, but I doubt it. With modern manufacturing capabilities, I would think that kind of number would barely be a week's production.

Given the subject though, I think it's more hoarding and fear of regulation. By comparison, I didn't see any shortages of table saws because of the "SawStop" rumor.... maybe we just don't need tables saws as much as we do ammunition.

CWS

[tommyt654]

Well since this is really down my alley (lol),Here's what I have seen and found. There's absolutely a shortage ,but its seems based on a slight supply deficit at the moment as stated before the influx of new gun owners has exceeded supply for ammo. The other thing I noticed is the abundance of ammo for sale at ridiculously high prices (greed) on many gun sale websites, boxes of 22.cal up thru 50. going for exhorbitently ridiculous prices and folks buying it at those prices only fueled the higher cost and lowered supply,hoarders maybe to a degree but seemed mainly aimed at folks tryin to make a quick buck, this also escalated into 30 rnd magazine sales as well as AR sales escalating. I could have easily sold mine for 3 1/2 times what I paid for it. Gun sales went thru the roof and along with it the ammo. I doubt theres really any major shortage, more than likely greed has become more of a factor in the issue as I have a few friends in the know that have stated the LEO have no problem getting ammo or the gov't for that matter, Personally I think the manufacturers have deliberately slowed production in order to increase demand as well as pricing,very similiar to fuel cost in reference to big oil shutting down refinerys in the late 70's-80's to increase profit and lower supply. We have all seen this before. Fortunately weapon supplys have begun to be caught up as pricing has reflected lower cost again and in time the ammo will as well. Personally I have plenty (who would have thought ) and supply of gunpowder/primers and brass has not been an issue,you just have to look around more and buy from some other sources at the moment,Big names like Brownells/Cabela's and others have been hit hard ,but supplies are refilling their inventories as demand has slowed and we'll be fine in a short time.The exact same thing happened in the last attempt at an AWB. Personally I had to laugh at some of these folks hoarding the 30 rnd mags and reselling on e-bay,gunbroker and the lot now getting stuck as well as panic buyers who paid outrageous amounts of money for AR's that they'll never recoup there initial cost from. Maybe that will teach some a lesson,(doubtful). In the meantime reload and enjoy if you can, if not just wait it out. I did see in a way what was coming and had bought plenty as I love to shoot, but reloading more now than before as cost have forced me to do so.I gave up on the gun shows as the lines to get inside were not worth the wait or unjustified gouging IMHO.

[cabinetman]

I think the shortage (if there is one) is from hoarding and over buying/stockpiling. Could be very soon that your neighbor will be better stocked than your ammo supplier.

.

[phrog]

I talked to an outfitter this past week about a prairie dog shoot that we have scheduled in June.

Lago

Maybe the prairie dogs are buying up all the ammo.