Bad Router Bit Experience

[Jim Frye]

I am making some trivets for our Son &DIL new home. Not wishing to use an old Craftsman Professional carbide bit I used some twenty years ago to make a bunch of trivets as Christmas gifts for the family, I dashed over to HD and picked up a Freud Diablo carbide bit to use. On the first plunge cut, one of cutters on the new bit shattered into literal carbide dust. I bundled up the bit and its packaging and headed back to HD for a replacement bit. Four hours of use later, the replacement bit was missing the end of one of the cutters. I am somewhat taken aback as all of my table saw blades are by Freud (no Diablo ones though). In the future, I will stick with Whitside, Woodline, Bosch, or Amana bits and NOT be in a hurry to get one. The Diablo bit was $38 with my veteran’s discount, but a waste of $38.

[dbhost]

That is NOT what I expect of Freud. Their stuff is usually quite good... Not sure if they are any good after the takeover now, but MLCS bits used to be quite good as well...

[leehljp]

I am glad that I have a large inventory of router bits, both 1/2 and 1/4" shafts - upwards of 150 or so. Still, when I need one that I don't have, this makes me skeptical. I have a few good HD router bits from the early 2000's, but don't remember the brand.

One thing I "usually" do is google reviews of . . . . what ever. But now I will even do that with name brand router bit reviews.

I saw a news article on Ford today in which they are hiring back many of their engineers because AI couldn't do as well as the engineers, and it is paying off in better quality.

[dbhost]

So for router bits, I have the MLCS 66pc 1/2" shank set, plus an assortment of profiles for cabinet door profiles, biscuit cutting, and an assortment of 1/2 and 1/4" shank Rockler bits, some cheap chinese locking miter bits and of course my cheap Bauer 1/4" set, maybe what is it 15 pieces. plus a couple of the Freud bits that I have picked up here and there. Maybe 110 bits total. I USED to have around that many various 1/4" shank bits, mostly Skil and Vermont American from back when they were all USA production but I migrated to 1/2" shank when I got the Hitachi Router and got rid of my B&D Firestorm router...

In my years of using router bits, I have only had 2 bad experiences, both with cheap bits. One was caused by an idiot user. First one I managed to drop the router with bit installed and bent a 1/4" shaft straight cutting bit, and then recently the Bauer flush trim bit bearing failure.

I wish I had held on to my 1/4" shank bits...

[Jim Frye]

I have some 1/4” shank bits, but all of my routers, except the Ryobi TR30 trim router, have 1/2” collets. I have to go looking for the 1/4” collet adapter now and then. Oddly enough, my old Ryobi R700 plunge router came with 1/4” & 3/8” adapters. In all these years, I have never seen a router bit with a 3/8” shank.

[dbhost]

I think my first router was a Ryobi R161, it had a 1/4" collet with no 1/2" available sadly... At least that is how I remember it...

I have HEARD of but never once seen 3/8" collet routers and bits. Just don't think there was enough interest for that to take off...

[LCHIEN]

there are 12 mm collets used in European routers. Very dangerous because its so close to 1/2" A European 12mm shank bit will be 0.4724" or about 1/32 less than 1/2" . Put one in a 1/2" collet you may think you got it tight but you have only tightened the collet to its minimum, probably around 0.492 (15/64) and that bit may move and get throw out at high RPM.
Europeans also have 6 and 8 mm shanks. 6 mm shank bits would seem to fit 1/4" (6.35mm) but would also be dangerously loose.
I have no use for nor would keep any metric shank bits in my shop for those reasons.
Bosch has 6, and 12mm collets available for the 16xx series, but I would never get one. So close as to create confusion. and no use if I keep no metric bits.
The OEM Bosch collets have no size marking on them.

[leehljp]

I still have an 1/4" carbide bladed ogee bit I bought from Sears in the early 70's. It is a little dull but it is still alive! My first router was a Sears 1/4 in router. I had two of them.

[LCHIEN]

I still have a 1/4" Craftsman router from the 70s. I still have a little plastic case with I think four original bits from my original purchase... they are HSS bits, not carbide tipped.

[dbhost]

Those old Craftsman bits were awesome. My uncle had them in his workshop.... Decades of use, several houses of furnishings built with them and not a dull bit in the box...

[LCHIEN]

HSS bits, 1/4" shanks from the 70s. Oh how far I've come with routing.
These are HSS bits despite the little flyer that came with it that says Carbide Tipped... its a mini catalog which does include some carbide tipped bits but not the ones that came with this.

[dbhost]

Those look nothing like the carbide bits my dad had from the 1970s. The case for starters was metal, like an old school metal drill index... However I do know that blow molded cases were a thing back then. Maybe it depended on the set?

[LCHIEN]

Here's my lifetime experience with router bits.
I had a router in the 70s, just had quarter inch shanks and a few HSS (not Carbide) bits. Didn't use it much. I got a nice Bosch router in the 90s when I really got into woodworking. I read the magazines and there was an article that said the MLCS bits were like third place in quality (cut quality and longevity) to Whiteside and Amana for somewhat less money so I got the 30 bit set with 1/2" shanks (I was convinced by reading that 1/2" shanks were clearly superior for stability and resistance to any bending.)

I used it for a while and it was a good buy, I used probably half the bits in the set before too long and thought it was a good way to try different bits. I think the set was around $3 a bit average and so if I used half the bits that made the ones I used cost me $6. But that's a good buy because single bits cost $10-20 each.

I bought a barely used 66 bit set cheaply off a BT3Central member, which was a mistake because I have hardly touched them in 10 or 15 years. Neither did the first owner which should have told me something.
Anyway, I did have good service with the MLCS bits, I found them a sufficient quality with reasonable pricing compared to Whiteside and Amana, and free shipping on bits costing 9-15 bucks was irresistible since shipping might cost 7-10 bucks. So when I needed particular bits I would order them from MLCS for a decade or more.

I do a modest amount of routing.. I do a lot of small chamfers and roundovers usually 1/4 or 3/8", a few edge beading bits. for boxes, stands, small projects. I also do rabbets, grooving and some signs and occasional dovetail joints. I do some template bits and patterns. And dado cleanout bits.

I tend to have small one-off projects and buy a special bit that will do it for me.I typically need quality, no longevity, but accurate dimensions. Mostly in the last 5-10 years since MLCS was taken over and no long ships free, I've been using cheap import bits like Yonico from Amazon with free Prime shipping.

I haven't had any bit failures to report, in general all the bits have been good, usable as advertised. Machining and cut quality are good, and I've not really tested longevity with short runs.
I like the prices which allow me to do my project with an expenditure of 10-15 bucks and not have to shell out 30-50 bucks for some Whiteside or Amana tier bits.

I have bought mostly 1/2" shank whenever there's a choice, the bits for my trim router I bought a set of roundovers and a chamfer bit for it. I have a good quality chamfer and roundover I keep on my table (usually mounted to the router) because I use those all the time.

I suspect the cheap bits I buy are cheap today because they can be turned out by NC machines; the quality of the carbide tips and brazing is probably where they saved the most, but so far, for me they are adequate in life and I have not had any carbide tip failures.

[leehljp]

Loring: "I bought a barely used 66 bit set cheaply off a BT3Central member, which was a mistake because I have hardly touched them in 10 or 15 years. Neither did the first owner which should have told me something."

I bought a 60+ set in the late 90's or early 2000's for the sake of having an extra round over or chamfer or other common bit when I needed it. I often experimented with different sized bearings for specialized use, and this allowed me lots of freedom in designs. These extra bits were great for me, even if I didn't use all of them. AND in today's world where quality has dropped off, it sure is nice to know that the bits that I purchased 25 - 30 years ago were/are of much better quality than those of today, judging from the OP of Jim fry.

IIRC, this is not the first instance in this year that a router bit from the big box store was not of a quality to be expected. That makes my (and your) 60+ set of 25-30 years ago much more valuable.

BTW, I have two different large bearing sets that I have had for about 25 years, and this allows for me to use bits in a way that they are not designed in the original set, but still OK, safety wise.

[dbhost]

You got me to thinking.

I have the big box of routing crayons mostly because it has a variety of sizes, and I use MOST of them, not all, most...

For bigger jobs I use the bigger shank bits, smaller jobs get 1/4 shank bits....

Raised panel frame profiles and the related biscuit cutting bit.

Actual panel raising bit

Signmaking bits for each of my signmaker templates.

Pattern / trim routing, so far even though I have 1/2" shank bits only seem to use the 1/4"...

Dovetail.

Locking miter.

Slot cutting

Rabbeting

Cove

About the only bits I own that aren't getting at least a periodic workout are the Roman Ogee profiles. When I had the Skil USA made set I used the snot out of that and I think I just got tired of that profile...

[Holbren]

I think my first router was a Ryobi R161, it had a 1/4" collet with no 1/2" available sadly... At least that is how I remember it...

I have HEARD of but never once seen 3/8" collet routers and bits. Just don't think there was enough interest for that to take off...

3/8" bits are popular for CNC work where they are solid carbide. Because carbide is so expensive paying for a 1/2" rod for a 1/2" shank and turning the cutter down to 3/8" doesn't make sense. So you'll see 3/8" shank solid carbide spirals and actually 5/16" shank solid carbide spirals. For braised tooling they are out there for some straight bits but doesn't make sense for profile bits.

[LCHIEN]

strength is probably primarily proportional to the cross section of the shank which is proportional to the square of the radius..
referenced to a 1/4" shank, 1/2" shank is four times stronger and 3/8" is 2.25 times stronger.

[Jim Frye]

I received an email today from a Freud representative in response to my complaint to them from 06/29/26. They apologized and have offered me a replacement regular Freud bit. It took awhile, but it seems they are doing the right thing. I supplied all of the numbers from the Diablo packaging. I’m still of the opinion that they had a bad batch of carbide and the two bits I got were made with that batch. Wouldn’t be surprised if I’m not the only customer with this experience.

[LCHIEN]

seems like the are trying to make it right. In general I hold Freud/Diablo products in high regard.

[Jim Frye]

All of my 10” table saw blades are Freud (not Diablo) and have many years of usage with no problems. I have two F40s, a 24T thin kerf, a 80T thin kerf, and a 10” 60T negative hook CMS blades. I also have the 8” Super Dado set and a Freud pattern guide set. All are superb products, but it looks like the Diablo brand is one to stay away from. My first and last Diablo product.

[dbhost]

It's just sad to see bad products slip past QC with a company like Freud. Never had a bad one from them, always liked their stuff...

[capncarl]

I don’t think many people give routers the respect they deserve. They turn awfully fast, probably 3 times as fast as a planer that is encased in lots of hard stuff to keep you from reaching in the machine while it’s running. Yet we commonly operate routers with our fingers mere inches from the bit. I have a 1/4} gooseneck grinder that is used by tool and die makers that spins probably 20,000 rpms. I was grinding out a slot in a piece of steel when the bit snagged something and hung up. The shank actually bent into 90 degrees, the grinder snatched out of my hands and flailed around on top of the workpiece for a while as the grinder rolled up the cord and extension cord as it finally coasted to a stop. Really really scary stuff these spinning machines! I could see something similar happening with a router.