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  • Drill press and sander

    Hi Guys,

    I have been wanting to acquire a decent drill press (not necessarily a floor standing - a bench top is fine for me) and this is what someone in my neighborhood posted. Also for sell is a disc + belt sander.

    See attached photos sent to me.



    I don't have much info but I am planning to go over and check out.

    a. what would be a reasonable price to pay for these. I want to make sure I am fair to the person selling it.
    b. what important thing should I be checking for (other than turning them on to see they start)? Especially I am concerned about the runout on the drill press but not sure how best to check it out??

    Any guidance please??

    Nice G Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    THose are both Craftsman tools and were probably pretty good models.
    I love drill presses.

    The drill press looks like it says 15", 1 HP., floor standing unit. If you don't know much about DP the 15" refers to the "Swing of the unit, basically that means 7.5 inches from the edge of the column to the center of the drill. I.e. you can drill to the center of a 15 inch wide piece.
    Other key stuff, the stroke is the vertical travel of the bit for a saw that size it should be 3.5 to 4 inches. Speeds in RPM, is actually important to good drilling A good belt driven DP will have a overal range of about 150 or 250 or 300 to as much as 3200 RPM. The number of discrete speeds is the product of the number of pulleys and the steps on the pulleys. 5 speed DP for table models only have two pulleys and 5 steps. For this size unit it will have three pulleys (idler in the middle and 5 steps, two belts giving 12 discrete speeds. which is pretty good.
    1 HP is probably OK about the minimum for a DP that size. most in that range look like 1000 W which is 1.3 HP.
    Finally chuck size capacity should be at least 1/2" I think this one has all of that. It also has a vertical rod depth stop similar to mine which I replaced on mine with a better one. Finally it has a metalworking table which you will probably want to spend about $100 and get a nice woodworking one with a fence (or make your own with T-track). Make sure the elevation and lock works. The motor runs smoothly. And you get the chuck key (they can be hard to find in the right size). As long as the spindle seems OK I wouldn't worry too much about run out. Lights? Laser cross hairs, doesn't look like it has them.


    The Disk/belt sander looks like a pretty common type - 6" disk and 4" x 36: belt. The belt is missing. On mine I had trouble with the belt tracking adjustment other than that not much to go wrong. It has an adjustable tilting table and a stop on the belt. Ask if he has the miter gauge that fits the tilting table. Should have come with one. And it has a stand, nice touch.

    Things looking a little rusty, but overall not banged up or missing too much parts.

    I'd be happy with those for my work. And I think both are a reasonable size for a serious woodshop.
    From their age I'd say the sander was around $100-120 originally. Today 125-160. And the DP was around 200-250+ back then, today $300-500/

    You might start with $70 for the sander, 150 for the DP,
    Honestly If I needed them I'd probably go as much as 100 for the sander and 200+ for the drill press.

    Warning the drill press will be pretty heavy. They usually have a set screw or two that holds the head to the column - loosen the screws and the head can rotate and be lifted off. But the head itself will be around 100 pounds and the base and column another 60 pounds. I recall my 16" floor DP was quite a load.

    Last edited by LCHIEN; 04-23-2021, 01:29 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment


    • #3
      Is that the sander miter gauge sitting on the DP table?
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment


      • #4
        LCHIEN Thank you Loring !! That is a lot of help. And a good catch for the miter gauge - will have to check it when I get there in person.

        I was concerned about runout because one of my primary reason for buying a drill press is being able to drill perfectly straight holes. An ability that I miss today. With a drill press that old I wonder if the bearings would have been worn out and develop wobble. Then that would defeat the whole purpose of having a drill press.

        Thanks a million,

        NG

        Comment


        • #5
          My observation was that those tools pictured were not abused or heavily used, the rust is probably more from disuse. I know that Hitachi made DP for sears, my Hitachi was also available as a sears model and the picture you show has a lot of similarities to my Hitachi. My column is still shiny, I put a coat of johnson.s paste wax on it when new.

          As for runout I don't think it would be high on my list of issues.
          One thing that does it is excessive wear, this is not a 30 year old production shop DP. It doesn't look to be worn out to me.

          Run out as I call it is also non concentricity of the chuck and spindle and drill center. I ALWAYS check by bit to make sure its running true with no wobble. Sometimes I can see a little wobble... usually, I chucked a small bit between two jaws off center instead of in the middle of three jaws. Some times the shank just didnt sit true and I rechuck it. and its fine. Sometimes a bit extender off center and the set screws are adjusted/ Finally the other common cause is a bent bit. I avoid using the hand drill and use the DP mostly so bits seldom get off axis bending forces, but it happens.

          Usually even a wobbly bit tends to true up once it enters the wood. And my holes are usually true to the bit size. I'm very fussy about hole fits, so I have 118 degree, 135 degree, and brad point sets to 1/2" by 1/64th. And a set of metric bits by 1/2mm. And a 115 piece set with numbered and lettered machinist sizes.

          To me the most important aspects of a DP are the virtually perpendicular holes and the ability to use the fence and stops along the fence to drill repeated holes accurately in a line.
          Perpendicular holes in particular are important so that a hole drilled 1 " from two adjacent edges will come out 1" from those edges on the other side of a 2-4" thick piece of wood. You can't do that with a hand drill.

          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment


          • #6
            What I'd do to check out the drill press:
            1: Before plugging it in, grab the chuck and try wiggling it side-to-side and front-to-back... just to make sure the bearings are not horribly worn.

            2: Look closely at the table, where it clamps to the column, for any signs of cracks in the clamping mechanism. If it is cracked, you probably won't be able to get it to tightly clamp to the column. Not good, not safe either. I'd look for cracks anywhere/everywhere in the main structure actually. But cracks where pieces attach are the main concern.

            3: When you go to check the tools, bring a small drill bit (something smaller than 1/8th inch), a mid-sized drill bit (e.g. 3/8ths to 1/2 inch), and a small engineer's square or good combination square or a small plastic 90 degree drafting triangle. Verify the chuck will actually grip the small bit. Then insert the larger bit. Use the square or triangle to verify the table is exactly 90 degrees to the bit in the front-to-back direction. Drill press tables can be tilted left or right as you face the drill press... but they do not tilt up or down as you face them. If the table isn't square to the drill bit in the up/down direction, there is something wrong:
            a) the table is loose on the column
            b) the drill press head is loose on the column (yikes!)
            c) most likely: the section of the table that pivots left/right wasn't machined properly or the clamp around the column wasn't machined properly so the table ends up mounted at an angle. This is not easy to correct.
            This test must pass if you hope to ever make perpendicular holes as Loring described in the last paragraph of the previous reply.

            4: Operate the handles that move the quill assembly (i.e. the chuck and its shaft) up/down through their whole range of motion. Verify it is smooth with no signs of binding. While the chuck is all the way down, grab it and repeat the wiggle test from step #1. Make sure there is minimal slop/runout/play in the assembly.

            Then, when it is running, listen to the sounds made by the drill press. Dying bearings will be fairly loud, somewhat like marbles rolling around the bottom of a coffee can. Bearings are fairly generic parts; the bearing industry has a very good naming & numbering standard so it is easy to buy replacement bearings. Installing them might be more difficult; often they are "pressed" onto the quill shaft and/or press-fit into the head of the drill press. It takes a little work to replace pressed bearings but it's not a complex or tough job. Automotive machine shops or many NAPA stores have bearing presses that can remove or install bearings for just a few bucks typically if the ones on this drill press prove too tight. I've rebuilt a few stick-shift car transmissions over the years; usually I can press bearings on and off myself. One transmission had a super-tight bearing on the input shaft; my local machine shop charged me six bucks to press the old one off and another six bucks to install the new one. So, if you hear bad/noisy bearings, use that as a price negotiation factor as such problems are fairly easy to fix.

            If the drill press uses regular V-belts to change speeds, don't be surprised if there is some vibration caused by the belts. V-belts will take a "set" if they stay in one position for months or years... so a tool that has not been used in a while likely has stiff/set V-belts. Generally those are easy to replace. Swapping in "link belts" - aftermarket replacement belts made from short segments hooked together - will eliminate that vibration and likely would reduce vibration even if the V-belts were healthy. Link-belts are a common upgrade (not expensive either) for many belt-driven power tools to reduce vibration. If the drill press does vibrate, turn it off, unplug it, and then remove the existing V-belts. Plug it in and run it again... if it still vibrates the motor has issues which would make me run away. If it's smooth now, it was likely the V-belts though it could be issues in the quill or in the third/center pulley if the tool has 2 belts.

            Column rust: look at it closely and see if it appears to be mostly surface rust (no big deal) or deeper. You'll want to clean it up (emery paper) and then coat it in paste wax or some other material to prevent future rust.

            As for price... Look at the size and horsepower of the unit and search Harbor Freight for something close. HF drill presses tend to be "no frills" but otherwise not bad... so I would not buy a used drill press that costs close to or more than a new HF of similar capacity unless the drill press had some worthwhile unique/extra features.


            Sander: same overall things:
            1: Look it over for cracks.
            2: Make sure it does not make bad-bearing noises.
            3: Verify the fence (on the belt sander part) and the table lock into position firmly. The belt part does have a fence, right?

            mpc
            Last edited by mpc; 04-21-2021, 10:15 PM.

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            • #7
              Wow mpc & LCHIEN (Loring) - feeling so much empowered to go and check it out.

              Now I need a similar comprehensive guide on "How to convince my wife" - any thoughts

              Thanks a ton guys !!

              - NG

              Comment


              • #8
                mpc : BTW I was under the impression that the Harbor Freight Drill Presses are no good.

                But looks like you think they may be a decent option. I have seen some of their bench models under $100. So if this particular used Craftsman deal doesn't work out I may go and get myself a benchtop model and not keep myself deprived off a DP. After all I am not necessarily looking for a floor standing type in particular.

                What say?

                Thanks,

                NG

                Comment


                • #9
                  Personally, I'd take this craftsman over a new HF, I think.
                  Not that the HF are really bad, but I think the older Craftsman had nicer fit and finish and you should be able to get this one at a lower price.

                  The HF comparables are a Central Machinery 13" 16 speed for $300 or a 17" 16 speed for $420.
                  Having a floor model has proven to be a benefit... you can drill nice perpendiculars into the ends of some moderately tall objects when you need to.
                  17 inch will be a bit larger... Not sure what the number of speeds is on the Craftsman but it should be 12 or 15 I would think. Not a factor to quibble about. 16 speeds may go a bit lower RPM for really big bits. Maybe 150 RPM low end compared to 300 RPM.
                  Last edited by LCHIEN; 04-22-2021, 11:05 AM.
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As for convincing the wife, make her some nice stuff.
                    Loring in Katy, TX USA
                    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You will never realized just how bad you needed a sander until you get this one! The drill press is a must have too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, did'ja get it? Or will someone beat you to it?

                        You might read some history of my current Drill press and things I've done to/for it.

                        https://www.sawdustzone.org/search?s...%7D&btnSubmit=
                        Last edited by LCHIEN; 04-23-2021, 12:42 AM.
                        Loring in Katy, TX USA
                        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                        Comment


                        • nicer20
                          nicer20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I will be going tomorrow morning. I don't believe anyone else is coming before me. So looking forward to checking it out tomorrow. Thanks and will update you.

                          And thanks for the articles link - a bunch of stuff to follow :-)

                      • #13
                        My drill press today - my favorite tool.
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	20210423_000156small.jpg Views:	0 Size:	80.3 KB ID:	843859

                        Factory features
                        • 16" swing
                        • 12 speeds 250 RPM to 3100 or so
                        • 5/8" chuck
                        • laser pointer
                        • 3.-3/8" Spindle travel (my biggest limiting factor - I sometimes wish it was 4" or more)
                        • 1 HP (750 W)
                        • weight 165 pounds

                        Features I have added to it
                        • Base stabilizers/castors and wedges to lift the castors 1/16th inch off the floor for stability
                        • Dust collection arm
                        • Shop vac on auto start switch
                        • improved depth stop from the original using a Bridgeport depth stop
                        • Low profile fence from Woodpeckers because this DP has long quill handles that hit 2" high fences; I have a DIY tall fence as well.
                        • Extra gooseneck lamp as well as the built in light
                        Last edited by LCHIEN; 04-23-2021, 02:16 AM.
                        Loring in Katy, TX USA
                        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                        Comment


                        • nicer20
                          nicer20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Oh quite a bit of enhancements and cool accessories !!

                          NG

                      • #14
                        Originally posted by LCHIEN View Post
                        Well, did'ja get it? Or will someone beat you to it?

                        You might read some history of my current Drill press and things I've done to/for it.

                        https://www.sawdustzone.org/search?s...%7D&btnSubmit=
                        OK - Here is what I found in my visit.

                        The Craftsman model no. is 137.229150. It is a 5/8" chuck - 12 speed machine (as Loring guessed).

                        First of all, The Chuck key is missing. I am going to try finding a replacement key - unless you guys are certain it is pretty much futile searching for it.

                        Because the chuck key is missing I could not do some of the tests related to 90 degree right angle alignment of the Chuck to table as mpc has suggested. But I did use my digital angle finder to quickly check. At least at the stationary setting it shows pretty good (89.8 degree). I assume expecting 90 on the dot is unreasonable. Please correct me if I am wrong.

                        The next big thing is this - the table clamp to the column is quite rusted. When I tried loosening it - it loosened after some effort. But here is where it got interesting - There is a Rack and pinion mechanism that raises and lowers the table. When I tried lowering the table I notice the rack actually bowed out from the column. It is as if the rack is like tape stuck to the column which is peeling off. I was able to quickly raise the table back and reset the bow in the rack. (BTW Loring I notice your DP has a very similar Rack on the right side of the column.

                        Turning on the motor didn't show terrible condition but I didn't do extensive checking.

                        My first thoughts are looking into finding the chuck key (which LCHIEN has said might be tough to find) and also figuring out if the Rack of the rack & pinion system is a replaceable component and at what cost.

                        I told the seller I will get back after I find out about these two critical items.

                        What do you Gurus think ??

                        Thanks a buch,

                        NG

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          I checked Sears part direct and ereplacement parts.com

                          Both the sites are showing Chuck Key and Column Rack are both "Discontinued and not available"

                          I will check other resources (like eBay) so please share if you know any. What is a feasibility of replacing the entire Chuck assembly and a new Rack & Pinion assembly. Or not worth the hassle one will have to go through in order to adapt something like that. Of course not want to turn it into an expedition in itself.

                          Thanks,

                          NG
                          Last edited by nicer20; 04-23-2021, 07:10 PM.

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