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  • HVLP guns and upgrades

    I have a Fuji SemiPro2 turbine and their M-series bottom-feed gun. I like them pretty well. I upgraded the gun to use the 3M PPS 2.0 disposable cup system, which is just simply awesome. Especially in woodworking where you might spray an oil, then have to give it 8-24 hours, spray again, repeat. The PPS cups can be removed and sealed, then you just run a tiny bit of solvent to clean the nozzle. No more cleaning the entire dang container and gun. BUT! This gun requires a pressure cup, to apply pressure to the bag of the disposable liner. The pressure cup is more fiddly, and removes the benefit of the measuring marks on the standard cups, as well as being heavier/bigger, etc. I'd love to get into a gun that natively uses the normal PPS 2.0 system. 3M's gun uses compressed air at a minimum of 24 PSI and 13 CFM. I couldn't use the turbine, which I'd rather use than the compressor. By far.

    Any ideas? My searches for a PPS 2.0 compatible gun leads to lots of things that don't necessarily tell me they work with a turbine (5 PSI and massive CFM). I really love the cup system so much, I'll build around it. Hopefully keeping my turbine, and having the old gun for other uses/backup.

    I've been spraying a lot today (mostly fabric protectant on a new couch), but also a little lacquer, and wish I could use the native cups which are so much faster.

  • #2
    Oh, another reason for the no-pressure cups is that I'd like to use the micro cups which are something like 3 ounce. And there's no pressure (HO) cup for that. So the only way to use it is on something that doesn't need pressure in the cup.

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    • #3
      I don't clean either of my Fuji gravity feed guns until I'm done with the finishing job. They're airtight and I've left finish in them for more than a week with no issues.
      Chr's
      __________
      An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
      A moral man does it.

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      • #4
        I left my Fuji gun overnight and had spray issues the next day.

        I didn't get any real answers here or anywhere else, so I dropped by a paint shop. First, hilarity ensued when I said Fuji and not a single person there had heard of them. They are a top brand in wood, but these automotive people had never even heard of it. We talked a bit and based on their recommendation, for something they don't sell, I ordered the 3M Accuspray ONE kit and will sell my Fuji stuff.

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        • #5
          I'd like to get an HVLP gun very soon, need to get better educated - and certainly can't provide any useful comments on your post! Thanks for what you posted - feel free to share more about your 3M choice...

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          • #6
            Edited for clarity: The description below is about the Accuspray ONE system with PPS 2.0, number 26580.

            There are 4+ nozzle and needle sizes available for most guns, and they cost $50-100 per set. You use different sizes for different materials. As a woodworker you probably will never need a huge one, used for body/frame coatings and gel coat. Maybe. I have some furniture that was gel-coated and it looks spectacular (purchased already made). Clear gel over cocobolo for the doors and then a neutral medium shade of solid color for the body with the same deep clear over that.

            Most people just get a 1.3 set and live with using different materials in the same gun. I did, but didn't really like it. I am about to paint something with latex and would hate to do that with the small nozzle.

            Cleaning guns is a pain, and takes a lot of solvent. A few days ago I sprayed 303 fabric protectant on a new couch set, and then used about 6 ounces of solvent to clean it. You never really know if it's all clean, though you can see the most vital parts if you unscrew the cap and nozzle.

            Changing from one product to another takes either two guns or a full cleaning each time. Changing between water and oil is even more problematic and slow. I don't *often* have multiple projects and finishes going, but just recently did, and do here and there.

            Most guns need to be fairly vertical to work, and maybe at most held pointing straight down. You can't point them up, or totally sideways, etc. I started this though process with a piece of furniture that I'd really like to spray with the gun in all directions instead of having to move the work around.

            So the disposable and semi-disposable parts of the Accuspray ONE gun fix most of that. You should watch the videos on it, particularly end users learning to use it, or just reviewing it. I found one poor review out of dozens of great ones, and the guy said he'd rather pick up "one of" his $1k guns instead. Well yea, I'd rather be taking Sofia Vergara to lunch in my Rolls Royce too. It's easy to change cup sizes for small/medium/larger/big spray needs and for fit inside tight spaces. Cups and liners come in four sizes. You mix in the cup with the disposable liner in place, and the cup has markings for ratios. Snap on a lid with a built in filter, no straining. Snap on the gun, spray. Snap off, put an included plug in the lid, and store. The liner collapses so there's no air in contact with the finish. It probably should last as long as leaving it in the can. If it's catalyzed, no danger of hosing up the gun itself, just toss out the parts. Since the liner collapses to the amount of finish in it, you can spray in absolutely any direction without giving it a thought. A few days ago I got my gun too far sideways and it sputtered, meaning one more day to let it dry, sand, then shoot again.

            The nozzles are $5 each, and generally good for "5-10 jobs" which is kind of ambiguous. Still, for a hobbyist, we're talking $100/year in consumables if you use a lot. Compared to the cost of time and the other materials, nothing. I do not enjoy my time cleaning, but do enjoy my time spraying. Oh, and those nozzles come in 4 sizes, so you can snap on anything from a 1.2 to 2.0 mm in seconds, for $5. You can clean them and reuse them, without about 2 ounces in solvent. Depending on how much cleaning you have to do, solvents add up too.

            This seems like the most forgiving system for an amateur at a very low price, and the old guy at the paint store agreed.
            Last edited by Carlos; 01-24-2020, 10:36 AM.

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            • #7
              Thanks for the overview. What are you using as an air source? I've calculated that my compressor can give me about 2-1/2 minutes of continuous spraying until it starts falling behind in meeting the cfm requirement of the spray gun. I have smaller compressor that I could "T" into the air supply to the gun to extend that somewhat. I'm curious what you do for air, and what the compressor's characteristics are vs your experience using it.

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              • #8
                I'll be using a small compressor. Remember that the gun only takes 20 PSI and 10-ish CFM, so if your compressor is rated at 90, you'll actually get a lot more at 20. I got the gun yesterday but haven't tried it. I will use it tomorrow or on Saturday, and report back.

                I just recently sold my Eagle 5 HP 60 gallon. Just took up too much room. When I used the Fuji system that I just sold, I'd normally only do a few minutes at a time. I think I will be good.

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                • #9
                  I've been using a Fuji-Q4 system for several years with a Fuji G-XPC gravity fed - air assisted gun. I converted it years ago to PPS V1. Wish it was cheaper to switch to V2 (V2 solves all the issues I have seen with the V1) but as a hobbyist I have several disposables for my V1. I love this system except when the 28 oz. cup is filled.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, that's what sent me down this rabbit hole. Upgrade the Fuji with PPS...but...PPS 2 is so much nicer. Oh, we mostly forgot about pressure cups? Fight to get one. Then realize that pressure cups kill some of the convenience and cleanliness of PPS 2, start looking for a gun that works with my turbine. Discover that "nobody" uses super low pressure guns any more, they are all going to "trans tech" which is around 15-20 PSI. Decide to get a full system.

                    At least I am getting more for my Fuji stuff than the new stuff cost, and I had picked up the Fuji on a steal price.

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                    • #11
                      Carlos,

                      I am assuming that your comments in post # 6 above is about the 3M Accuspray, correct? I love the finish of spray painting small to large furniture items (as opposed to brush painting) but hate the cleanup. Your write up in post #6 is what I would love to have. I'm sure there would be somewhat of a learning curve but it sure looks doable. I had a professional (auto) body works guy teach me back in the early 70s as I helped him when he got behind in collision repairs and painting. Even though I didn't use spray painting again for over 40 years, when I did get a couple of cheap HVLP guns for wood painting, his techniques that he taught me came back. Spray painting furniture is soooo much nicer looking, but the clean up makes me only use it on big projects.

                      The 3M Accuspray sure looks nice and the price is not that bad, compared to some units. I will add that to my "want" list, but will wait for my next big project.
                      Hank Lee

                      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

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                      • #12
                        Yes, the Accuspray ONE system, with PPS 2.0 (their second version of the kit/gun, which appends the ONE moniker meaning one gun for everything, but confusing). I feel exactly like you, I would dread getting out the regular gun, hated all the solvent mess and waste, and occasional issues like being interrupted and having a sputtering gun if it sits. I will let you know on learning curve, but I think no. Well, I've spent at least two hours reading stuff and watching the how-to videos. Basically the spraying part is exactly like any other spray gun. No real curve there. The PPS 2.0 cups do require learning something new, but man, are they super simple. Put the liner in the hard cup (holder). Add paint, add solvent, mix in the cup. It has markings. Snap on a lid, which has a filter built in. Snap on a cover if you'd like to shake it. The refill packs include liners, lids, and covers. Put the cup flat on a bench, put the gun on top, 1/4 turn to lock. Turn the gun over and adjust the included air flow control with the included gauge, and adjust your spray pattern. Normal stuff. While you do that, the liner will shrink so there is no air, and the gun can be in any position. Ready to go.

                        When done, put the cup flat on a bench, squeeze the trigger to let the paint back flow back to the cup. The liner will expand. Throw out, or put a cap on it to save it. If saving, invert the cup so the filter stays wet (the lids have a flange to keep them standing). Now either throw out the nozzle or clean it, watch the videos on this. It's so fast and easy, takes about 2 ounces of cleaner. Or chuck it and spend $5.

                        As far as waiting, money is a finite resource, but...I would buy it sooner and get practice with it on smaller stuff. This is what I'm doing, in preparation for some very long shelves I'll be doing, where I want the finish to be super consistent along the whole thing. The kit is $240, which gives you the gun, one nozzle of each size, and five liners/lids in the 22 ounce size. One of the lids is 125 micron for water finish, the others are 200. They don't document this obviously, so look for it. I had a "midi" kit of the 13-ish ounce cups with the Fuji, and that's my favorite size. I just picked up a small sampler of the micro cups because I'm going to be spraying some crazy expensive three-part pearl on a motorcycle part.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Carlos! Probably on my "Father's Day" gift request (that I buy for myself), if not for "Mother's Day". Maybe before even that.

                          OK, I have been overview reading. I need go figure out which types of finish I use mostly and then buy a set of throw-away heads. That puts the cost of throwaways at about $7 - $8 per use. When I figure the waste in cleaning fluid, paint & cleaner that spills on me, and disassembly/ cleaning time from my current set up, the cost will come out about even. LOML hates it when I paint because I always get more on my clothes and shoes when cleaning up than when painting.

                          Love the idea of being able to spray at all angles! Wow!


                          Up Date, I read more - No I/You don't have to replace the tips after each use. They are good for several and they are much easier to clean.

                          Thanks Carlos for the information above and in the one following this post. The Flexzilla hose will be a great help over my current hose. Thanks for the links and other explanations.
                          Last edited by leehljp; 01-24-2020, 02:06 PM.
                          Hank Lee

                          Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think you may have missed something... The kit comes with one of each head. So you can test for your own uses and style. I am still using my original heads. The replacements are $18-21 for a four pack, so $5 basically. You might clean these, since now it's 2 ounces instead of 6-10 ounces for cleaning.

                            The angle thing is what started all of this. I wanted to spray something that will be a real pain to move/flip, and would need to spray upwards. The PPS cups were the solution that led to a huge rabbit hole.

                            Oh, also, didn't see this documented anywhere but the 125 micron lid is slightly blue, the 200s are just plain translucent plastic. For a company with great docs, the 125 lid in the kit is just a hidden secret that could be a treasure or a gotcha if you don't know.

                            I've been watching the 3M videos on my iPad when going to bed. I just told the wife I was watching porn.

                            Another tip...I picked up a whip with a flex end and an additional water trap. The gun is "permanently" attached to the whip, minimizing weight and bulk of connectors at the gun. The whip is Flexzilla superflex hose. That's six feet of light flexible hose. That plugs into the water filter, which plugs into either of my normal air hoses with industrial connectors. Simple, and more comfortable than trying to manage a heavy air hose at the gun. NOTE: You need a female to female 1/4 NPT added to the parts below, and of course, Teflon tape.

                            https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                            https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                            https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the links, especially for the last one with the flex line.
                              Hank Lee

                              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

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