New Shop on order

[cwsmith]

capncarl,

The only insulation offered by the manufacturer was 1/2" urethane under the floor, and I took that option. The floor itself, is LP Smart Flooring which has some insulating qualities according to the local dealer. Likewise, the siding and roof sheathing is all LP TechShield. In addition, I plan on installing a floating floor of some kind of laminate, with a foam backing. For the time spent out there, it should be adequate I hope. Actually, I'm back and forth about putting a moisture barrier down. From everything that I've found so far, it's important to keep the PT base well ventilated. I thought of putting down a moisture barrier under the gravel, but couldn't find any current information on whether that is a current policy. (I seem to recall years ago that placing a moisture barrier under a concrete floor was advisable, but I didn't find any current recommendation for doing so with a gravel bed.)

Regarding full-time heat, probably not this year. But if I go the expense of the permanent gas-fired wall heater then most likely that will be the case, just reducing the thermostat when I'm done working. When I first remodeled the old garage in Painted Post, making it my office, I used to just turn the unit off. That wrecked three hard drives on my computer, as it just couldn't handle the temperature changes. (It took me awhile to understand what was going on with my new Gateway at the time. Once I kept the heater going, albeit at a lower temperature, I never had another drive problem.)

radhak,

Understand about living in Florida and not requiring heat... but then depending on where in Florida you live, I don't have some of the other problems that the tropics can present.

JimD,

Well, that's what I first thought... the construction is mostly 2 x 4's, so I plan to insulate both walls and ceiling to R15. It's only 240 sq ft, so I thought something along the lines of a space heater would be just fine. I've had three people tell me that I need at least 30,000 BTU's. I think that's a bit much, but I do plan on finding out this winter with just a space heater of some kind. My room back at the PP house is 14 x 22 and it heats fine with a smaller wall heater, but that's an attached garage with only three walls exposed. That might make the difference, but that much I'm not sure of.

Thanks again to everyone, lots of good information from you all to digest,

CWS

[Stytooner]

South Alabama is close to the Florida climate. For years all I used in an uninsulated shop was a few Infra red light bulbs to take out the chill. It has a skylight, s when the sun shined on it later in the morning, it basically heated itself. Bad in the Summer though. I had to cover the skylight.
My Son has been using the oven that we heat up dust ports in to take the chill off in the AM when cool here. The new shop is insulated very well, so it doesn't get very cool in there at night anyway.
I didn't like the oven idea, so this year I bought one of these from Northern Tools.
It's on sale as well. I have to say that is one fine heater. Warms the entire shop in less than 30 minutes. Gotta turn it off then. I have bought a lot of little electric heaters over the years and I will say that this one has impressed me the most.
It is fan forced, so does make a little noise, but you cannot hear it over the rest of the cnc machinery running.

[capncarl]

For starters I believe that I would use a small propane heater just to see how much btu is required. That learning will be your guide to make an educated purchase for your permanent heater.
I have this heater as an emergency heat source, along with 2-3 full 20 lb cylinders. It was used to heat my shop several years before the window unit was installed. I believe it is 9 - 15 k btu.

This larger propane heater might be just the trick.


capncarl

[twistsol]

I think the heater really depends on your insulation I use a 17,000 BTU heater in a 28 x 26 garage and it never had a problem with it and that's in Minnesota it has been known to get cold here on occasion


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[woodturner]

Another option would be a torpedo heater(or this). They are a similar concept to the tank-top heaters but are free-standing and have a fan and a more efficient design. The ones linked produce 60Kbtu for $150 or 40Kbtu for $130 and the temperature is adjustable. You could probably find one at a better price or get a used one cheap, it's just an example (I paid $20 for a used one similar to these). They are a little noisy, but they are less susceptible to dust and should not have the cleaning issue you mentioned earlier in the thread. Bonus is they produce enough "focused" heat you can work outside comfortably, such as under the car.

[mikelawson113]

I have some concern using open flame around wood dust or areas that may accumulate dust. I have a 220v. Electric heater with built in fan that I use I my garage shop that throws good heat.


Vancouver Island BC

[cwsmith]

Thanks to everyone,

Stytooner - That's looks like a really whopping electric heater, and perhaps the way to go. I haven't planned for 220 yet, as all the tools that I have are 120. I could convert my RAS over to 220 or if I ever get a table saw bigger than my BT3100. But for now I'm planning on running 12 ga wiring to everything with 20 amp breakers on four circuits (lighting, left bank, right bank, and one dedicated to the RAS and table saw).

capncarl, twistol,and woodturner - I'm pretty much getting the idea that I won't need anywhere near the 30K BTU's that the local stores are telling me and that any one of the suggested heaters would be a great place to start. At this point, I think a propane or electric quartz heater would do the trick and at least give me a first-hand trial of how much in the way of BTU's per hour heater I'm going to need.

I keep an extra 20 lb propane cylinder as backup for the grill (we "grill" all year-round several times a week). But also, there's a local discount/surplus store that has some great buys on quartz heaters. Most of those are rated by room size, like up to so many square feet.

The idea of a emergency propane heater is attractive, but our dental hygienist lost her entire home and all of her possessions last year, when the propane heater they were using leaked. Apparently her husband had brought it into the house during on for those frigid spells. Not sure what happened there, but as she discribed it, there was a brief smell, a big PUFF and everything was on fire.... they barely got out of the house. It was a complete loss!

One never knows what other people do. Myself, I've never had a leaky tank or resulting fire in decades of grilling, and so wouldn't hesitate to use one in the shop... but even the mention of such things and the LOML starts getting nervous. So any type of propane heater like those shown would be temporary at best.

Thanks very much for all the suggestions,

CWS

[dbhost]

How much heat you require is all going to depend on your climate, and the insulation in the building itself. Say for example that the building is 2x4 framed, and you fill the voids with spray in foam insulation which is R9 per inch, that leaves you with roughly R22. Also assuming you are using radiant barrier / foil backed OSB for roofing, you really only need to button up the inside walls, drywall, taped and mudded should to the trick, as well as gaskets on all your faceplates!. And then heat installation.

Depending on your local restrictions, I would say go with either electric, OR propane. Piped natural gas will be incredibly expensive to run to the building, and unless you are a lot younger and more active in the shop than I suspect you are, you just won't see a positive return on that investment

Of course you could always put a wood stove in that shed and make your mistakes disappear giving you a nice warm feeling at the same time...

When you run power, plan on the possibility that every major tool you have can, and might at some future date be rewired, or replaced with a 220V tool. That way you won't get any rude surprises say 10 years down the road when you want to upgrade to a 3HP SawStop, or something like that... When I had the power run to my shop, I had 3 220V cicuits run, 1 for a larger air compressor / dust collector, 1 for a 220V table saw, and one that goes to the band saw area...

[Stytooner]

I have 5 220 VAC circuits so far. The heater and oven share one. Then I have the Air comp and lathe on one. Mill on another and future water pump circuit will be shared. CNC router on yet another. My welder, plasma cutter and very soon the HF dust collector will share one. Rarely use the welder. I only have 100 amp service to this shop, so I have to pay attention to what is running when. I haven't popped any circuit breakers yet. I haven't finished installing equipment yet either, so I better keep my fingers crossed.

[cwsmith]

mikelawson,

I share your concerns about "open flame", and will stay away from that. But there's also the concern with certain types of heaters that have open elements like quartz, infrared, etc. Even if you shut those off when your cutting, the dust prevention is problematic. (I'd have to wait for the unit to cool and then cover it.)

For the present basement shop, I've used my shop vac hooked into the operating tool, and that's worked fairly well, but still there's a coating of dust everywhere. For the new shop, I have a HF dust collector which is still in the box. It will be located just in storage area on the side of the garage, just adjacent to the new shop where it will be piped in.

dbhost,

The building is framed with 2 x 4's. I had planned for R15 fiberglass insulation that I would do myself, as I'm really doing everything I can to keep the cost of this to a minimum. We do have a couple of local firms that provide foam service, but it's not cheap... nothing involving someone else's labor is and frankly except for plumbing and concrete, I pretty much have always done everything else by myself, getting advice and doing a heckuva lot of reading.

stytooner,

When we bought this old house about 10-12 years ago, we had new electrical service installed (200 amp, but upgradeable to 300, should I want to swap out the main breaker.). Two years ago the same electrician ran 100 amp service out to my garage. The only electrical requirement out there is lighting and the occasional use of light tools or my air compressor. The plan is to run four circuits to the adjacent shop, which will be located only three foot to the right of the garage storage area. My thought to the moment is to use 12 gauge wire for those and use 20 amp breakers. Looking at possible switch overs to 240-volts, about the only tools imagined is my RAS, joiner, and maybe someday a bigger table saw (but I really do like my BT, so hope that will last well in to the future). At this point in life, I can't imagine increasing my tool arsenal beyond perhaps a full-sized band saw next year.

A few weeks ago there was a short discussion here on the forum about using heavier gauge wire for a 240-Volt circuit. Looking at amp requirements for any tool that I either presently have or would possibly buy, tells me that nothing in my future amp requirements would require that heavier wire. Subsequently, 12 gauge would be fine and perhaps somewhere in the future I could convert the heavier power tool circuit over to 240 without having to run new wire. Basically, as a one-man shop I don't run more than one tool at a time. The dust collector and air compressor will be on separate garage circuits where they will be located.

Unfortunately I'm at an age (71) where the primary purpose of the new shop is for hobby use. I'm not zoned for any commercial enterprise here, and my quest for zoning variance (because of building length) stipulates no commercial use. It's just a place to keep the old guy interested in creating things and so, jokingly out of the bars and pool halls and away from any floozies.

Thanks again to everyone,

CWS

[dbhost]

No worries. Just as an FYI, yes spray in foam is more expensive than fiberglass batt insulation. There are DIY kits for this that shave a lot of the cost down, but it is still expensive. I wasn't aware you could get R15 in a 2x4 void. I have R13 and its okay. Does what I need it to do.

If you don't mind being patient, and are that concerned with an open element causing fire problems in a dusty environment, I would highly recommend electric radiators. No open elements to ignite dust, but they take forever to heat a space. I have a single 1500 watt oil filled radiator that is probably 15 years old now that once the temp goes below 35 outdoors overnight, I put on low, next to my RO system tank, keeps the pipes warm, and keeps the oil in the radiator warm, that way when I want to go out and work in the shop it is at least tolerable, and will come up to temp a LOT faster if the oil in the radiator is already warm rather than 30 something degrees to overcome...

[capncarl]

I really don't know if your wood dust is as big a problem as its being made out to be. I've been through all the training about explosive dusts with my previous employer having to deal with flour storage, sifting and handling and don't see how your shop could ever get bad enough to catch fire or explode considering your working parameters. Wood dust on electric heater elements will stink about like turning the heater on for the first time each year, nothing that would keep you from working there though. Test it out for yourself by setting up a propane touch outside in the yard and throwing a hand full of wood dust at it just to see how much it takes to combust like is feared happening in the shop.

As far as your saw goes, the wood shop side of my shop is 12" wide and I could use the bt saw ok in it but my powermatic is about 60" wide and is really too wide due to workbenches and other shop stuff in the way.

[poolhound]

It's just a place to keep the old guy interested in creating things and so, jokingly out of the bars and pool halls and away from any floozies.


CWS

You had better watch out for your local Rockler or Woodcraft as I have seen the occasional floozie in there eyeing up the all the shiny new tools and accessories...

[cwsmith]

dbhost - I was surprised to about R15 bats availability for 2 x 4 studded walls. Noticed that in a Home Depot flyer last week. I haven't installed insulation in probably thirty years, the last job being the conversion of the old garage in Painted Post to a family room/work studio.

I like your suggestion of an electric radiator-type heater for at least the off hours convenience and safety. I have been thinking about what I could do to move the paint and varnishes out to the workshop and store them in some kind of area or cabinet that I could keep above freezing. When the shop moves out of the basement, I'm planning on using that space for an additional cooking and baking area for my wife. (A tradition in most of her Italian family.) So, the finishing stuff really needs to move out too. At this point, all of you guys have perked my curiosity as to really how much (or more to the point, how little) heat I may need. I'm hoping the shop will arrive by the middle of next week.

capncarl - Carl, I think you are right. It's not so much the saw dust, as it may be using poly or lacquer in the finishing process. Heating elements can always be vacuumed or blown out before turning them on, and for their use while running the saw or sander it may be of little concern. I do plan on getting the dust collector assembled before I actually start cutting anything and that will cut any dust considerably.

But so much to do well before then, with the wiring, insulation, drywall, etc. I also plan on making a few carpentry modification if necessary, like cutting a passageway for the out-feed side of my RAS and possibly re-enforcing the two loft areas.

poolhound - unfortunately my "local" Rockler or Woodcraft is close to two hours away. I have yet to visit either one... but perhaps a pilgrimage there should be in order come spring.

Again, thanks very much to everyone,

CWS

[woodturner]

capncarl - Carl, I think you are right. It's not so much the saw dust, as it may be using poly or lacquer in the finishing process. Heating elements can always be vacuumed or blown out before turning them on, and for their use while running the saw or sander it may be of little concern. I do plan on getting the dust collector assembled before I actually start cutting anything and that will cut any dust considerably.

If you are very concerned about the flame and heat, another option would be hot water heat, as the boiler can be outside the building. No clue on relative cost, just pointing out an option that does not require forced air or flame inside the building.