Smallerizing the shop

[jeffbrown3841]

I just picked up an older Mark V Model 500 with band saw at the Habitat Restore. Come to find out most of the standard attachments are missing: drill chuck, lathe centers, sanding disk, and manuals. I paid HfH $775 for what appears to be a well used and not well maintained machine. I would like to find replacement parts without having to buy all new. Thus a few questions:

1. should I fuss about the price? It was represented to be the full Monty, but when I got it home and started to set it up, I realized what was missing.
2. where can I find the missing parts?
3. should I upgrade to the 520 table and fence? I have the Craftsman BT3000 and it is in great shape. I also have a relatively new Craftsman RAS and Craftsman Lathe with copy crafter. I am thinking about selling the lathe and maybe the RAS. I also have a new DeWalt 12" compound sliding miter saw. I use the RAS a fair amount since it is readily available. I like it for lap joints and quick cut offs. never would even think about ripping with it.
4. Power unit on the Shopsmith seems to run ok, but may have seen most of its useful life. Would any of you recommend upgrading to the Mark VII power plant?
5. what would you recommend for deferred maintenance steps? I would guess it has not been lubed in some time and the band saw has some light rust on the table. That will get some steel wool and polishing compound. Doug Reid, the shopsmith guru recommends Johnson's paste wax on everything. That would seem to be a dust magnet. I use dry lube on all the other tools, especially blades, tables, lift mechanisms and bearings where I can get to them.
6. And, BTW Wifey is hard on me to reduce my tool inventory, liquidate something to offset the cost of the shopsmith.She has a point and my shop is small and already a bit crowded. Removing the Craftsman Lathe will solve the space problem. Anything else I should consider?

[jeffbrown3841]

Finally resolved it. I contacted the exec director with research on the cost to bring this unit up to standard and comparable prices in the area from craigslist. within an hour of opening on Monday I got a reply that they would give me a full refund. returned it yesterday and the store manager and the guy who misled me on the unit could not have been more accommodating. I think they were a bit embarrassed for having been so lax in researching it, aggressive in pricing and less than honest in representing it. But it does underscore the comment from Capncarl that HfH really is pretty aggressive in their pricing. You have to be real careful, especially in buying power tools from the Restore.

Many thanks for the advice. You all were very helpful in guiding me on this one. I plan to look at two complete units on Sunday and come home with one. I have to travel to Delaware and NJ to see what I want, but the pricing is right and they are complete. Hopefully the one I select will have been well maintained. If you have any tips on what to look for beside the obvious, I am all ears.

[leehljp]

I just picked up an older Mark V Model 500 with band saw at the Habitat Restore. Come to find out most of the standard attachments are missing: drill chuck, lathe centers, sanding disk, and manuals. I paid HfH $775 for what appears to be a well used and not well maintained machine. I would like to find replacement parts without having to buy all new. Thus a few questions:

1. should I fuss about the price? It was represented to be the full Monty, but when I got it home and started to set it up, I realized what was missing.
2. where can I find the missing parts?

About 4 month ago, I purchased a used Zyliss clamping system (Remember those?) and it was billed as a full set. When I got it, it was missing a key part, the clamps that mount the zyliss to a table. I emailed the person immediately and got a response. It was not an individual owner that was selling it, but a fellow who basically makes his living buying and re-selling. He apologized and said that he was told it was complete. He ordered the part for me and sent it to me. He contacted the fellow that he bought it from - the original owner, who said that he lost the clamps a long time ago so he never used it. This fellow neglected to tell the re-seller from whom I purchased it. Never the less, the re-seller made good on it.

Go to HfH and ask about it.

[cwsmith]

I hate to say this, and I am hopefully wrong in my opinion, but that $775 seems to be an awfully high price for any used Shop Smith that is missing parts.

My local Lowes had a few factory demo's a several years ago, and while I found them fascinating, I just couldn't get past the fact that the constant tear-down and setup would be a major negative for me personally.

About six years ago I had an interesting conversation with an old fellow who had a business in the area which sold used tools and other items. He traveled the region buying estate goods and selling them in his local warehouse-like store. (I bought a really nice Stanley 1940's handplane for only $6 from him). He said he had a really nice Shop Smith that he couldn't get rid of... wanted only $125 for it. I really wasn't interested and never went up to his warehouse to look at it. But it made me wonder... are these things really out there in any quantity for those who have lost interest or may have passed.

CWS

[capncarl]

I've found the Habitat Restore prices in my area to be extremely high, considered that the items are give to them, and if they are new items donated from a close out that they couldn't sell.

In keeping with the subject started originally on this post.... if you have the Festool track saw you should be able to get rid of your table saw and sliding miter saw altogether by adding a Festool multi function table. I've watched lots of the utubes on the MFT and pretty much agree with what they are preaching. It sure would free up a lot of floorspace.

Ive had several people try to give me their shopsmiths and I refused their offer. Probably a great tool if you were limited in shop space to the size of a walk in closet.

capncarl

[JoeyGee]

Not to pile on or anything, if it were me, I would have spent that 775 on standalone BS, DP and sander. Used and/or HF for each of those three would be around the same price and much easier to use, but that's me. We have an old Shopsmith at our robotics facility that was donated to us and it just looks like a hassle to set up to me. It's a lot bigger than I thought, too.

[twistsol]

I tend to agree that $775 for well used machine that's missing parts is a bit steep.

I wouldn't bother with the 520 table since it is really only useful for the table saw. If you have a BT3000 for that function, it will be better than the ShopSmith as a table saw. Parts are availabe on Caigslist and eBay, as well as from ShopSmith as a last resort. The headstocks on these rarely fail if maintained, and can be rebuilt for a few hundred dollars.

If it came with the manual go through the maintenance checklist and assume nothing has ever been done and do it all. It will take a couple of hours but is well worth it. Most important are belts and make sure the speed changer operates smoothly.

I'm a big fan of Johnsons paste wax. As long as you don't try to put on a thick coat, it doesn't atrract dust any more than other options. I keep an old toothbrush in the shop to get any stray globs of wax out of the teeth on the quill or the gears of the table posts.

[jeffbrown3841]

Many thanks for the advice. I spoke with the store manager and the long and short is there is no give. I approached it as if there may have been a mistake. Nope, no mistakes, they knew it was missing parts and claim to have priced it based on the fact it was an older machine missing key components. She further claims they researched it extensively. I have found only two on Ebay, none on Craigslist nor the local go-to classified paper.

I happen to have a good relationship with the local Habitat ED and a board member through my Rotary Club. I certainly will communicate my disappointment and frustration to the ED, but would like to be well prepared with the facts. Thus, I would greatly appreciate any guidance from this group of experts on pricing for a Model 500, complete or otherwise. BTW, the tag with the serial # is rubbed completely blank. not smudged or partially rubbed, but polished clean. Makes me think this unit has a checkered history, possibly stolen at one time. That could be one reason it ended up as a donation, rather than sold.

[woodturner]

. Thus, I would greatly appreciate any guidance from this group of experts on pricing for a Model 500, complete or otherwise. BTW, the tag with the serial # is rubbed completely blank. not smudged or partially rubbed, but polished clean. Makes me think this unit has a checkered history, possibly stolen at one time. That could be one reason it ended up as a donation, rather than sold.

There are some other ways to at least generally determine age - motor size, bearing type, color, etc.

Around here, a MK V model 500 in good to excellent condition with all the parts - lathe tool rest, tailstock, sanding disk, tablesaw table, push blocks and guard, manual, etc. can bring up to $500, but there are several listed on Craigs list currently that don't seem to be selling in the $300 to $400 range.

[dbhost]

While I don't particularly care for the ShopSmith table saw (tilting table, not tilting arbor), I think they are great for all around small projects. I saw a demo of one at the woodworking show a few years back. The guy demoing it knocked out a set of coffee table legs in nothing flat and then whipped around and started turning spindles for chairs. Setup was minimal, space used, again minimal. Price tag on them is awfully steep for what it is though.