Which one?

[durango dude]

You guys talked me out of an over-priced Ryobi band saw --- are either of these keepers?

http://farmington.craigslist.org/tls/3055686731.html

http://westslope.craigslist.org/tls/3049803163.html

[toolguy1000]

i'd skip the c-man. i don't believe 3 wheel small BSs have terribly good reputations. i paid $20 for a delta just like the linked unit. i'm surprised how well it works.

[sweensdv]

Nope, keep looking. The Delta is a maybe but not at that price.

[Knottscott]

I don't believe that Delta is much (if any) better than the Ryobi, so $80 is too much IMO. Definitely skip the 3-wheeler.

[dbhost]

I don't know. That Delta looks like it might be a mostly metal older model. Might be worth checking out, if he'll go $60.00 for it, or if it includes extra blades or something...

Steer clear of those 3 wheel saws... Lousy reputations on them...

[LCHIEN]

I can't quite tell from the scale. Delta made a 9" and a 12" all-metal bandsaw.
THis looks more like the 9" benchtop. The 12" came with a stand usually.

I have the 12" and it works well and has a 6+" cut height but takes no riser. I have on occassion wanted more capacity of the 14" but for the most part my 12" delta has worked OK with a 1/2" woodslicer blade. The construction is cast iron frame, sheet metal doors (I think this is the 9" because it has a one piece door, the 12" has 2 doors). and a aluminum table.

If its the 12" it'd be worth the $80, not so much the 9".

[cabinetman]

I would keep watching the ads and hold out for a good deal on a 14".

.

[cwsmith]

I have to agree with the others in that the Delta seems a little over-priced. I don't know of it's actual reputation though.

I've read that 3-wheel bandsaws like the Craftsman pose some problems with increased stress and a resulting shortened blade life.

CWS

[Pappy]

One more affirmation. The Delta is a decent looking saw at $50 - $60, but not worth $80. Steer clear of that, or any of the 3 wheel bandsaws.

[mpc]

Some things to know when buying a bandsaw:
* the 3-wheel varieties basically use smaller diameter wheels... which bends the blades more leading to earlier metal fatigue in the blades. It also means there is one additional wheel to align for ideal blade "tracking."

* bandsaws have 3 main physical dimensions:
1: wheel diameter (duh)
2: "resaw" capacity which is basically the vertical distance from the table top to the bottom of the blade guide assembly when the guide is fully raised.
3: throat capacity which is basically the distance from the blade to the vertical structure supporting the upper half of the saw. Usually it's just a little less than the wheel diameter. On 3 or 4 wheel bandsaws it may be much larger... this was the "selling point" of those bandsaws but the blade life tradeoff isn't worth it.

* bandsaws have a couple other capacity specifications:
1: motor power, more is better typically. Though small benchtop style bandsaws don't need high HP motors. 1/3 to 3/4 is common on benchtop models, 1 HP or more is common on larger bandsaws. The higher the resaw capacity the more HP is desired.

2: wheel thickness & size of the rubber "tires" affects the maximum size blade that can be installed. Small blades (1/8th to 1/4 inch) are used for small diameter curved cuts... 1/2 inch blades are for straighter cuts & resawing... 3/4 and larger blades are used for resaw (cutting a thick board into two thinner boards, standing the board on an edge rather than on a face). Most benchtop class bandsaws can handle blades up to 1/2 inch or so which can do resaw work. It's generally easier to cut a straight line (and get a cleaner cut surface) with bigger blades.

3: table tilt: most tables can tilt to a bit past 45 degrees in one direction, and 0 to 15 degrees in the other direction. The mechanism that supports the table (the "trunnion") needs to be beefy (as does the table)... pushing on a corner of the table should not cause significant deflection. Nicer bandsaws have easier to align/calibrate supports... and supports that tilt more smoothly. The table tilt axis needs to align with the blade of course.

* blade guides come in a few basic styles:
1: blocks and a rear bearing: the side-to-side movement of the blade is restricted by (ideally) low friction blocks; a bearing is placed behind the blade to limit aft motion of the blade. This bearing may be installed such that the back edge of the blade rides against the face of the bearing (which looks odd when you think how bearings function) or against the outer edge (more like you'd expect). For the face style bearings look for worn grooves in the bearing.

2: side bearings and a rear bearing. More expensive saws generally use this setup, you can also buy retrofit kits (Carter makes a bunch of them, you can see them at Woodcraft) to convert guide blocks to bearings. At first glance, the all-bearing style guide seems more logical but many folks swear by/prefer guide blocks - especially for smaller blade sizes. Both work well so don't fret much over the bearing style. The condition of the guides/bearings (worn or not, stuck bearings, etc.) is far more important.

Don't forget to examine the blade guide assembly UNDERNEATH the table! This is the one that gets bombarded by sawdust so it's generally in worse condition. Also see how easy/hard it is to reach the various screws/clamps/nuts/whatever that you use to adjust the guides... guides have to be adjusted each time you change a blade to match the size of that blade.

The wheels should both turn easily, both be "true" (round) with no wiggling, etc. The upper wheel may feel loose though - the blade "tensioning" mechanism is part of the upper blade support structure. This structure will be loose when no blade is installed... but there should be no slop/freeplay between the wheel and the shaft that supports it. Both wheels will have rubber "tires" on them as well. These tires should have no cracks, should not be dried out, etc. And the tires, at least on the upper wheel, should have a crown. Tires are generally not too hard to replace - at least for common wheel sizes. It might be harder to find tires for smaller benchtop saws, especially if they are not name brands or are one of the entry-level brands.

The mechanism that moves the upper blade guide assembly should move up/down easily... and move it STRAIGHT up and down! If this is bent or mis-aligned, each time you adjust the upper blade guide (to match the thickness of whatever you are cutting) you'll have to re-adjust the blade support blocks/bearings... which gets annoying after a while.

Bandsaw structure comes in a few structures as well:
1: the classic "Delta" style: two round wheel houses connected by a beefy arm. From the front or back these saws look a lot like the film cartridges of the old "Instamatic" cameras (124 film?) Mid-sized and larger such saws often have a bolted joint in the arm, pretty much in line with the table top. "Riser kits" insert a 3 to 6 inch tall block of metal at this joint to increase the resaw capacity by that amount. Riser kits also include longer upper blade guide & shield assemblies.

2: welded frame saws (aka "European saws") which look like sheet metal structure welded together. These typically have square-ish wheel houses and no bolted joint in the vertical structure. Thus there is no way to insert a riser kit. The Craftsman bandsaws and Rikon bandsaws are common examples of this type of bandsaw.

Extra details/features on some bandsaws:
1: some mechanism to display blade "tension." All bandsaws have a screw mechanism that lifts the upper wheel to stretch (tension) the blade. Many saws have a built-in indicator so you can read the stretch of the blade and stop when it reaches the proper value for whatever size blade is being installed. Otherwise, you either have to buy a blade tensioning gauge (not cheap) or "pluck" the blade like a guitar string and listen for a clean note. Most inexpensive saws require the "pluck" technique.

2: when installing the blade, you'll put a little tension into it and then spin the wheels by hand to check blade "tracking" - i.e. how well it stays centered on the tires. The upper wheel has an adjustment (usually on the backside of the saw) to tilt the upper wheel to adjust the tracking. Some saws (mostly newer and/or more expensive saws) include windows to let you see the blades with the wheel house safety doors closed. On such saws you can eyeball the blade tracking with the motor running as you use the saw to double-check/monitor tracking.

A good bandsaw will have:
* wheels larger than 9 or 10 inches in diameter
* be a 2-wheel design, not 3
* be pretty darn stiff/rigid structure. Flexing of the structure limits how much tension you can put into the blade... without sufficient tension the blade may bend backwards or bow sideways while cutting. This is where cheaper bandsaws typically flunk. Flexing at the table or table support trunnion assembly makes it difficult to support the workpiece and follow your desired cutline.
* resaw capacity: more is better generally. 5 inches is about the minimum. Anything smaller than that means the bandsaw is only a glorified jigsaw in what it can do. The majority of bandsaws sold to home woodworkers have a resaw capacity in the 6 inch ballpark. Riser kitted saws, and many newer bandsaws, have 10 to 13 inch capacity... really nice but more expensive. If you have a source for thick lumber then resaw capacity is important. If you tend to work with smaller "normal" stock only then resaw capacity is less important.

mpc

[cabinetman]

Some things to know when buying a bandsaw:
* the 3-wheel varieties basically use smaller diameter wheels... which bends the blades more leading to earlier metal fatigue in the blades. It also means there is one additional wheel to align for ideal blade "tracking."

* bandsaws have 3 main physical dimensions:
1: wheel diameter (duh)
2: "resaw" capacity which is basically the vertical distance from the table top to the bottom of the blade guide assembly when the guide is fully raised.
3: throat capacity which is basically the distance from the blade to the vertical structure supporting the upper half of the saw. Usually it's just a little less than the wheel diameter. On 3 or 4 wheel bandsaws it may be much larger... this was the "selling point" of those bandsaws but the blade life tradeoff isn't worth it.

* bandsaws have a couple other capacity specifications:
1: motor power, more is better typically. Though small benchtop style bandsaws don't need high HP motors. 1/3 to 3/4 is common on benchtop models, 1 HP or more is common on larger bandsaws. The higher the resaw capacity the more HP is desired.

2: wheel thickness & size of the rubber "tires" affects the maximum size blade that can be installed. Small blades (1/8th to 1/4 inch) are used for small diameter curved cuts... 1/2 inch blades are for straighter cuts & resawing... 3/4 and larger blades are used for resaw (cutting a thick board into two thinner boards, standing the board on an edge rather than on a face). Most benchtop class bandsaws can handle blades up to 1/2 inch or so which can do resaw work. It's generally easier to cut a straight line (and get a cleaner cut surface) with bigger blades.

3: table tilt: most tables can tilt to a bit past 45 degrees in one direction, and 0 to 15 degrees in the other direction. The mechanism that supports the table (the "trunnion") needs to be beefy (as does the table)... pushing on a corner of the table should not cause significant deflection. Nicer bandsaws have easier to align/calibrate supports... and supports that tilt more smoothly. The table tilt axis needs to align with the blade of course.

* blade guides come in a few basic styles:
1: blocks and a rear bearing: the side-to-side movement of the blade is restricted by (ideally) low friction blocks; a bearing is placed behind the blade to limit aft motion of the blade. This bearing may be installed such that the back edge of the blade rides against the face of the bearing (which looks odd when you think how bearings function) or against the outer edge (more like you'd expect). For the face style bearings look for worn grooves in the bearing.

2: side bearings and a rear bearing. More expensive saws generally use this setup, you can also buy retrofit kits (Carter makes a bunch of them, you can see them at Woodcraft) to convert guide blocks to bearings. At first glance, the all-bearing style guide seems more logical but many folks swear by/prefer guide blocks - especially for smaller blade sizes. Both work well so don't fret much over the bearing style. The condition of the guides/bearings (worn or not, stuck bearings, etc.) is far more important.

Don't forget to examine the blade guide assembly UNDERNEATH the table! This is the one that gets bombarded by sawdust so it's generally in worse condition. Also see how easy/hard it is to reach the various screws/clamps/nuts/whatever that you use to adjust the guides... guides have to be adjusted each time you change a blade to match the size of that blade.

The wheels should both turn easily, both be "true" (round) with no wiggling, etc. The upper wheel may feel loose though - the blade "tensioning" mechanism is part of the upper blade support structure. This structure will be loose when no blade is installed... but there should be no slop/freeplay between the wheel and the shaft that supports it. Both wheels will have rubber "tires" on them as well. These tires should have no cracks, should not be dried out, etc. And the tires, at least on the upper wheel, should have a crown. Tires are generally not too hard to replace - at least for common wheel sizes. It might be harder to find tires for smaller benchtop saws, especially if they are not name brands or are one of the entry-level brands.

The mechanism that moves the upper blade guide assembly should move up/down easily... and move it STRAIGHT up and down! If this is bent or mis-aligned, each time you adjust the upper blade guide (to match the thickness of whatever you are cutting) you'll have to re-adjust the blade support blocks/bearings... which gets annoying after a while.

Bandsaw structure comes in a few structures as well:
1: the classic "Delta" style: two round wheel houses connected by a beefy arm. From the front or back these saws look a lot like the film cartridges of the old "Instamatic" cameras (124 film?) Mid-sized and larger such saws often have a bolted joint in the arm, pretty much in line with the table top. "Riser kits" insert a 3 to 6 inch tall block of metal at this joint to increase the resaw capacity by that amount. Riser kits also include longer upper blade guide & shield assemblies.

2: welded frame saws (aka "European saws") which look like sheet metal structure welded together. These typically have square-ish wheel houses and no bolted joint in the vertical structure. Thus there is no way to insert a riser kit. The Craftsman bandsaws and Rikon bandsaws are common examples of this type of bandsaw.

Extra details/features on some bandsaws:
1: some mechanism to display blade "tension." All bandsaws have a screw mechanism that lifts the upper wheel to stretch (tension) the blade. Many saws have a built-in indicator so you can read the stretch of the blade and stop when it reaches the proper value for whatever size blade is being installed. Otherwise, you either have to buy a blade tensioning gauge (not cheap) or "pluck" the blade like a guitar string and listen for a clean note. Most inexpensive saws require the "pluck" technique.

2: when installing the blade, you'll put a little tension into it and then spin the wheels by hand to check blade "tracking" - i.e. how well it stays centered on the tires. The upper wheel has an adjustment (usually on the backside of the saw) to tilt the upper wheel to adjust the tracking. Some saws (mostly newer and/or more expensive saws) include windows to let you see the blades with the wheel house safety doors closed. On such saws you can eyeball the blade tracking with the motor running as you use the saw to double-check/monitor tracking.

A good bandsaw will have:
* wheels larger than 9 or 10 inches in diameter
* be a 2-wheel design, not 3
* be pretty darn stiff/rigid structure. Flexing of the structure limits how much tension you can put into the blade... without sufficient tension the blade may bend backwards or bow sideways while cutting. This is where cheaper bandsaws typically flunk. Flexing at the table or table support trunnion assembly makes it difficult to support the workpiece and follow your desired cutline.
* resaw capacity: more is better generally. 5 inches is about the minimum. Anything smaller than that means the bandsaw is only a glorified jigsaw in what it can do. The majority of bandsaws sold to home woodworkers have a resaw capacity in the 6 inch ballpark. Riser kitted saws, and many newer bandsaws, have 10 to 13 inch capacity... really nice but more expensive. If you have a source for thick lumber then resaw capacity is important. If you tend to work with smaller "normal" stock only then resaw capacity is less important.

mpc

That about covers it!!!

.

[pelligrini]

That about covers it!!!

.

So what are we supposed to talk about now?

Holding out and saving up for a decent 14" would probably be the best bet. A buddy lent, then gave me a more recent delta 9". It's half plastic. I got it working, kinda, but I hardly ever use it. I'd really prefer a 14". The best thing about the little delta is that it fits under my jointer in the corner out of the way.

$50 for the all metal delta wouldn't be a bad price. If you're just wanting to do curves and such and your space is limited it might be a good option. The 9" I have has the room to get 3 1/2" of material under it for resawing. Actually getting the blade to cut that much is another issue.

[dbhost]

I have to agree, put your cash aside for a 14", or at the very least a 12" 2 wheel, cast iron frame with a minimum 6" resaw like the Rikon built Craftsman... I fought the temptation to get a smaller Delta, and got my HF. Great decision. For smaller / more intricate stuff I use the scroll saw. Used scroll saws can be had for cheap...

[durango dude]

I'm inclined to wait for a 14" Delta -

but this came up:

http://westslope.craigslist.org/tls/3068384083.html

[phrog]

Some things to know when buying a bandsaw:
* the 3-wheel varieties basically use smaller diameter wheels... which bends the blades more leading to earlier metal fatigue in the blades. It also means there is one additional wheel to align for ideal blade "tracking."
mpc

Read the entire post. Very good post. Thanks.