Which Sander for wall prep to repaint?

[dbhost]

FWIW, I am doing similar, using my Ridgid shop vac, Thien cyclone, HEPA filter on the bathroom wall in question (Even with the paper tiger, some of the wallpaper just WON't come off!), I am using a Norton hand sander, with sanding screens, and the vac hose more or less duct taped to the bottom edge of the sander. It's fugly, but it works... Simply put, I do NOT want to use a power sander in this application.

[leehljp]

I do not know if it has lead paint or not, but will have it checked from a church member friend who does this. IF so, I will see what he charges.

IF not, or he is too expensive, I will use full mask and use all of the dust prevention / precautions that I can. I forgot to mention that I am also thinking seriously of getting a room air filtration system to move from room to room as I work. That is one thing that I have long wanted, and needed.

[pelligrini]

I don't have anything on a sander, but it would be a good idea to seal off your work areas with plastic sheeting and tape. Drywall dust can (and will) go everywhere. Keep an eye on your HVAC filter too. Interior remodel work can stop them up in a hurry.

[gerti]

I am just putting the finishing touches on our kitchen remodel. The outline of the old wall cabinets did not match the new ones, and I had to deal with a mix of bare drywall, couple layers of wall paper and two paint layers.

I used a 5" Festool random orbit sander connected to a Festool vacuum with HEPA filtration. After two hours of sanding there was no appreciable dust at all! The combination might be a bit over your budget, but the excellent dust control and a vacuum that does not require you to wear hearing protection might be worth it.

For a larger surface their ROTEX sander may be a good choice (the RO action can be turned of for more aggressive work), but I had a relatively small area (maybe 20 square feet) so I opted for a tool with less weight. I had best results with 120 grid Festool sand paper.

BTW I also sanded a large oak countertop with the 6" Festool RO sander and vacuum, 150 and 220 grid. Again no appreciable dust at all.

I am totally sold on Festool. The tools are awesome and worth their ridiculous prices. I used their smaller router with a roundover bit on the countertops, and a downcut bit for an inlay to cover a seam. A few smaller shavings fell to the ground, but no airborne dust.

Sorry if I go on about this, but I have never before used a sander or a router without getting dust all over myself and everything else in the vicinity, so I am still in awe.

I have no relations to Festool other than being a very happy customer.

[gerti]

Couple more notes: I only used the sander to feather the varying surfaces and rough up everything else. Followed up with Kilz primer, a couple of coats to cover up the varying colors underneath, then a coat of good quality latex paint. So far it looks great!

[Rand]

Speaking of Lead based paint. The EPA has really cracked down on that this year.

They are treating it almost the same as asbestos. I know of an electrician in this area that already got busted by the EPA.

Here is some info. http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

[woodturner]

Speaking of Lead based paint. The EPA has really cracked down on that this year.

True, but ONLY for contractors:
"If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project."

(from the link provided)

Not suggesting anyone not follow safe practices, but there are essentially no restrictions regarding lead paint when a homeowner is working on their own home.

[LCHIEN]

True, but ONLY for contractors:
"If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project."

(from the link provided)

Not suggesting anyone not follow safe practices, but there are essentially no restrictions regarding lead paint when a homeowner is working on their own home.

then it goes on to say:
However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care.

[leehljp]

. . .

. . . I used a 5" Festool random orbit sander connected to a Festool vacuum with HEPA filtration. After two hours of sanding there was no appreciable dust at all! The combination might be a bit over your budget, but the excellent dust control and a vacuum that does not require you to wear hearing protection might be worth it.

For a larger surface their ROTEX sander may be a good choice (the RO action can be turned of for more aggressive work), but I had a relatively small area (maybe 20 square feet) so I opted for a tool with less weight. I had best results with 120 grid Festool sand paper.

BTW I also sanded a large oak countertop with the 6" Festool RO sander and vacuum, 150 and 220 grid. Again no appreciable dust at all.

I am totally sold on Festool. The tools are awesome and worth their ridiculous prices. I used their smaller router with a roundover bit on the countertops, and a downcut bit for an inlay to cover a seam. A few smaller shavings fell to the ground, but no airborne dust.

Sorry if I go on about this, but I have never before used a sander or a router without getting dust all over myself and everything else in the vicinity, so I am still in awe.

I have no relations to Festool other than being a very happy customer.

Gerti,

I have long admired Festools quality, but have really had to stretch budgets to move up to Fein. You are influencing me to check Festool out though.

I am one that will buy a Harbor Freight tool IF it works better than just "good" or "good enough". And I am not one who HAS to buy the "most expensive" just to have the best tool for bragging rights. However, I do know that real quality and durability come at a price and are worth it. To me, when I can afford those type of tools, they DO Pay for themselves in time saved and through superior performance. My 15 year old Fein multi-master has more that paid for itself even at the high price of $200 in 2000, (I think that is when I bought it.)

I have looked a Festools many times. The Festool CT 36 is $600 and the Fein is about $150 less. They are tempting. The FOUR requirements are hepa, LOW noise, and powerful and 12 to 15 gallon.


TWO Questions:
In YOUR opinion, do you think the Festool is a much better buy than the Fein for what I have in mind? I do like that the larger Fein has a 2 1/4 hose. With the power of the Festool, does the size of hose make any difference?


The one item that you have - that I know I probably cannot afford is the Festool sander. Which model do you have? I know that a Festool sander will allow me to sand for hours on end without the fatigue associated with most sanders though.

[gerti]

Gerti,

I have long admired Festools quality, but have really had to stretch budgets to move up to Fein. You are influencing me to check Festool out though.

I am one that will buy a Harbor Freight tool IF it works better than just "good" or "good enough". And I am not one who HAS to buy the "most expensive" just to have the best tool for bragging rights.

I am certainly with you on that, and have a number of Harbor Freight tools. I was almost embarrassed to admit on this frugal forum to own Festool tools. But they are more than a notch above the rest.

TWO Questions:
In YOUR opinion, do you think the Festool is a much better buy than the Fein for what I have in mind? I do like that the larger Fein has a 2 1/4 hose. With the power of the Festool, does the size of hose make any difference?

I have never used a Fein vacuum, so I can't make a direct comparison. The Festool vacuums (I have the new 26E, and the older Midi, long story) have more than enough power to handle most situations. For example for sanders you have to dial them down quite a bit. The only tool where the bigger 36mm hose is recommended is the Kapex saw. Note that they also sell a 50mm hose (as with all Festool not cheap though).

So I have no doubt that for all portable tools they have more than enough power.

The one item that you have - that I know I probably cannot afford is the Festool sander. Which model do you have? I know that a Festool sander will allow me to sand for hours on end without the fatigue associated with most sanders though.

I have two: the ETS 125 EQ for smaller jobs or jobs where the lighter weight is important, and the ETS 150/3 EQ for larger jobs.

I did have buyers remorse, that lasted about 5 minutes into using them and is now completely gone.

Neither of them are terribly aggressive. They do vibrate a lot less in your hand than others. Using my old RO sander my hand and arm would tingle for quite some time. With the Festool it's just the hand, and that goes away quickly (maybe a minute or two). And I never got that crampy feeling in the forearm either.

You can buy some Festool tool as a package with the vacuum and save 10% or so off the vacuum. I thought it was all tools, but I just see that some sanders do not seem to be eligible.

Don't rule the Festool sanders out. At least to me the outstanding dust control is worth a premium. If you have any doubts, they have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. So you can try the combo out for yourself and return it if you don't like it. I sanded a wall and a countertop right in our kitchen/livingroom, and did not tape anything off or wear a mask. There was less dust afterwards than after drilling 3 small holes in the drywall ceiling (and that was with the vacuum held right next to the drill).

A thing to remember though with Festool is that 3rd party accessories are probably not available. So do keep the cost of the vacuum bags in mind (though they really get packed before the vacuum starts loosing power). And their sanding disks have a special hole design. Again I think it is worth it due to the unbelievable dust control, and the air stream also prevents the disks from loading up easily which makes them last longer.

All of their tools come in "Systainers". First I thought that it would be a waste, but I found that to be a big plus. The tools have a home, they are easy to find, and the systainers attach nicely on top of the vacuums to roll them around. BTW the hose also stores on the vacuum (it has sort of a tray on top for it), and the power cable neatly winds on a bumper at the rear of the vacuum.

Finally you might find other uses for the vacuum. My wife likes to use the midi for cobwebs and stuff, because the hose is light and handles easily, and the vacuum follows you around easily as well.

Hope that helps!

[leehljp]

I appreciate this information tremendously. LOML has dust allergies bad and I do 95% of the vacuuming. And, she leaves the room when I vacuum too. For many people, 95% is good enough, but for others, that 5% is the difference in feeling great versus having sinus headaches and runny noses.

MY hangup is noise. I hate loud machinery, especially loud whines from blowers. One of the items I will purchase in the spring is a $100+ muffler for my 10 year old Sears LT1000 lawn tractor. I found a place online that makes and sells one. The point is that one of MY requirements for items that I am going to use for more than a 5 minutes or so is that it be low noise. LOUD and whiney noises give me a headache and leave me with ringing ears for hours.

I will check out the Festools sanders as well. I do know that these are one time and lifetime purchases and is what I prefer to do anyway.

My mom and aunt had shaky hands once they entered their late 60's. I have been having that off and on for about 5 to 6 years now in my right hand and am just shy of 64. It shakes worse after using ROS sanders or jig saws for 30 minutes or more, so this is a concern. If I hold a cup/glass in my right hand within an hour or so after using those, I will spill anything more than half a cup or glass full, unless I brace it with both of my hands and I do that to cover it over. Doctors have said that it is hereditary and no major health problem. But as much as I like to work for a couple of hours or so at shop/home and then go to public meetings, I try to keep my hand shaking down - as tends to draw people's attention away from any discussions that I may participate in - to my shaky hand "problem". This also occurs when I am just plain tired.

Tool choice and vibration dampening is very important to me.

Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

[pelligrini]

Nice discussion on the tools. Some good info on some items that I don't see much talk on around here.

MY hangup is noise. I hate loud machinery, especially loud whines from blowers. One of the items I will purchase in the spring is a $100+ muffler for my 10 year old Sears LT1000 lawn tractor. I found a place online that makes and sells one. The point is that one of MY requirements for items that I am going to use for more than a 5 minutes or so is that it be low noise. LOUD and whiney noises give me a headache and leave me with ringing ears for hours.

I'll use my shop ear protection (worktunes) for quite a bit more things than just woodworking, especially when running a vacuum, lawnmower, weedeater, blower etc.

[dkerfoot]

A few random thoughts on this thread:

1. My house is 90 years old. When renovating, I assume that there is lead paint and behave accordingly, but I will NEVER have it tested. With knowledge comes liability...
2. I don't have any experience with the Fein vacuum, but agree with the general principle. Never undertake any major project without including the purchase of a very nice power tool!
3. If you want a truly quite lawn mower and you don't have a huge lawn, look at the cordless rechargeables. They sound like a fan running. The grass being cut makes more noise than the mower! I have a Ryobi Mulchinator from back when my BIL was their Director of Power Tools and love it, though my oldest son preferred the power mower, so it is awaiting new batteries when the power mower dies or my youngest son moves out and I have to start cutting grass again.
4. I have terrible dust allergies too. The Dyson vacuums really are much better than most. I still prefer to be out of the room, but it isn't 100% necessary with the Dyson.
5. Not a great choice for sanding walls because of its weight, but I love my Porter Cable 1/2 sheet sander. Compared to any other sander I have used, it feels like getting behind the wheel of a Cadillac after years of driving low-end Chevys. Very smooth operation with no vibration fatigue. It also works very fast - like a ROS except faster because of the larger surface area.

.

[leehljp]

DK, great idea on the "Assume" but don't test. The small town that I will live in doesn't have its own codes per se, so I will not be testing it. I will assume that some painting way below the surface does have lead.

Other:
Lawn Mower - One of my quirks here - The one thing I miss over here in Japan is riding my lawnmower/tractor. I miss it! I told my daughter NOT to have anyone rake the leaves this fall so that I could mulch the leaves immediately when I get back! I also love pulling a wagon behind it with my grandkids in it too. However, there have been times when I was back in the States that I want to do ride it and haul something in the cart at 6:30 or 7 AM and a few times late at night (9 to 10 PM) to move some heavy tools or furniture/appliance but didn't - just to keep from disturbing neighbors. (I make a great neighbor ). So, my solution is a specialty muffler.

On Low noise, the only solution to me in this case is a low noise but powerful vac. Even with Ear protection, the noise is still there and I will not be able to hear LOML call, or hear the phone or hear the door bell. Those are important considerations for me. For a house Vac, we will be pulling up all carpet and resurfacing the floors in 3 rooms. So LOML's current house vac (Oreck) will do a good job, hopefully.


Sanders, I am looking for two but I will settle for one. I would like a 1/3 sheet sander and even looked at Bosch's 1/2 sheet feeder. It has great reviews but it sure is heavy to be holding up on walls. It would do well on the floors and then translate into great work in the shop.
. . But for the walls and the questions on this thread, I will have to go with a lighter weight round ROS. Square ones are too small for large walls except to get into corners and onto moldings. I have a 10 year old Fein Multimaster but it does not have a vac attachment.