Advice on table saw choice

[Black wallnut]

What can your unifence do that my Ryobi will not? Besides the built in low fence option? Both fences will assist the user to guide the work piece into the blade in a controlled straight line.

Charlie there is nothing wrong with you being passionate about your saw. Folks have been passionate about their saws for years on this site but until recently hardly anyone has ever played the my saw is better than your saw card. BT3Central members were once above that nonsense. The fact that many buy without Country of manufacture being their main concern is what it is. Furthermore it borders on bringing politic into the discussion so just drop that part of your argument. If you want to whine about the plight of American Manufacturing I'm sure you can find a political forum for that discussion. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not but this sites membership if far greater than just those folks form the iron belt. We are an international community!

[Charlie]

I'll tell you why I'm so passionate about the Contractor's table saw. Since joining a few forums I got tired of listening to people telling me that a Contractor's saw was no good because of the lack of dust collection. Well I'm not going to sell my American made Delta for a import Hybrid saw or a import cabinet saw. So I worked on designing a new dust hood for under the saw, to me the flat plastic tray just wasn't the answer as others had also aparently felt, I made several prototypes until I felt I nailed it. Well that was all fine and dandy, people liked it but were asking about the back of the saw, so I worked on that diligently until I felt I was happy with that also. My biggest obstacle with that was for it not to interfear with any of the operations of the saw. In other words, not have to remember to remove anything before tilting the blade. All in all it took about a year and I'm very proud of what I have accomplished. I like my saw, with a few other inexpensive upgrades like the Delta outfeed table, relocation and replacement of the power switch to a large paddle switch under the fence rail, wired it for 220V, and added the Fenner Drives PowerTwist belt. It runs smooth and sings like a cabinet saw except without as much power, but still enough for what I do. I have had the saw since I bought it new in 1995 and never had a problem with it, it has seen alot of use, and I suspect it will see alot more. My shop is a double stall garage that I park our vehicles in daily, the motor detaches easily and quick, then the saw's backside goes up againt the wall at the end of the day. What concerns me is the lack of suport for manufacturers in this country, if you can't afford new, buy used. Now is a great time to be looking for used American iron. And to you Mark, for the record my main table saw is a Delta 34-445X TEN INCH Contractor's table saw. And I'll throw this back at you, have you ever used a Unifence for any length of time ? Can you tell me what a Unifence will do that a Ryobi BT fence can't do ? [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

[Black wallnut]

LOL, There you go, over looking the fence, the miter gauge is minor, there are other aftermarket miter gauges out there that I'm sure are precise, or a sled can be used. But as I mentioned before, I feel that miters are best performed with a miter saw, it's safer because you have beter control of the board and it won't slip as easily, plus it's easier to lineup the blade to the line, and then theres length stops. I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time believeing that an American made table saw is lesser of a saw than a import, unless it was made in Germany or Switzerland.

Get a good grip there Charlie and be sitting down before reading this. I am not overlooking the fence one bit. The fact that that fence sells for big money does in no way, shape, manner or form make it better than the stock fence on the BT3K saw. Both fences when properly adjusted will help the user to guide a plank or sheet good straight into the blade to cut. Yet what is really clear is that in depth of cut the Ryobi wins hands down! Any 9" saw is inferior to the Ryobi 10" saw in depth of cut as are most other 10" saws inferior! Those are facts and to attempt to dispute them is pointless.

[Sawatzky]

Of all the threads I have read on this forums since I have been a member (5 years), this is the most ridiculous. I can't believe we have rambled on for 63 posts about which table saw is better. I joined this forum and bought a BT because of it. I used it for 3 years and it worked great. I then sold it to buy a contractor saw. They all have blades. They all have motors. They all cut wood. Use/buy the one you like and be done with it, but why argue? If I was a lurker here I would not want to join this forum. Good grief people!

[Russianwolf]

It's okay, Charlie won't like the saw I'll be replacing my BT with when the time comes.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-S...ablesaw/G0623X or the 12 inch model if I can fit it in the shop.

[vaking]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding in this string. For a hobbyist woodworker BT3 was and is a good value for its price when you are buying new equipment. It is accurate and hobbyist can live with light duty. It is difficult to justify spending thousands of dollars for a hobby equipment - not like you are dependent on it for income. That does not mean BT3 is a better saw than a professional cabinetmaner's equipment. If you give me a choice of Unisaw or BT3 for the same money - I will take Delta. This string started with a question whether BT3 is a better choice than a good contractor saw with expensive aftermarket fence for about same money as BT3. I agree with Charlie here - fence alone is worth this money if it is functional and contractor saw has a lot more potential if it can be restored. Sure there is risk involved because contractor's saw is older and used heavier than BT3, but it is still worth it. Additionally - BT3 being a light duty saw ages faster than heavy duty saws. Time takes bigger tall on BT3 than on professionals saw. There are many 40-year old professional saws still around and working fine but a 10-year old BT3 is not likely to have much life left in it. Between blade elevation mechanism and light-duty motor something is likely to fail after 10 years. Buying a used BT3 is just as risky as buying contractor saw that needs work. Notice that many forum members here moved to the dark side. Those of us who spend sizable slice of time on this hobby are moving to heavier iron.

Has this forum changed? Sure it has. This forum was originally dedicated to BT3 saw, later became a resource for woodworking beginners. BT3 saw has been discontinued for awhile, which means there are not many new members coming in lately. Even those that did are not really new to woodworking. People don't need much hand-holding here. That means there are less discussions about woodworking and more social topics. Coffee-pot has become more popular than all other sections combined. To some this is a change to the better, for others it is not. Matter of taste.

[Hoover]

Charlie nice saw for 1930s technology, that's where that saw belongs. You like to be confrontational, that's your choice. However you really need to move on. Goodbye.

[Charlie]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4". You want to question the inherrent accuracy of a SMT when compared to that miter guage?

The truth is that saw does look like a functional wood working tool. Does cast iron make it superior; I think not!

LOL, There you go, over looking the fence, the miter gauge is minor, there are other aftermarket miter gauges out there that I'm sure are precise, or a sled can be used. But as I mentioned before, I feel that miters are best performed with a miter saw, it's safer because you have beter control of the board and it won't slip as easily, plus it's easier to lineup the blade to the line, and then theres length stops. I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time believeing that an American made table saw is lesser of a saw than a import, unless it was made in Germany or Switzerland.

[Black wallnut]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4". You want to question the inherrent accuracy of a SMT when compared to that miter guage?

The truth is that saw does look like a functional wood working tool. Does cast iron make it superior; I think not!

[Charlie]

No longer available.

[Black wallnut]

SNIP........ What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. Theirs nothing wrong with haveing pride in the tools you have, and I respect that, but lets not get carried away. .......SNIP.

Really Charlie. I suggest you move along to a site more to your liking. You are making assumptions about a saw that you have no real knowledge about. Then with these unfounded assumptions you are making claims that are not fact based. This site was founded and first popultaed by fine folks that not only owned Ryobi saws but understood them and used them. Some of those fine folks had owned and used everything from cabinet saws to contractor saws. There is at least one world renowned wood worker, actually wood artist, who was using one to size rough timber to the end product in a production shop with a BT3K. Sure there are some that have gone to the dark side..... Rod Kirby, Stan in MT., Pat in GA, Jim in TX, and the origional Sicko Ryobi Cult Member, and more; there are also lots like myself that still use out BT3K's plus even more that are using the newer BT3100. Many of these fine folks will defend the BT3X saws as being worthy of ownership. It is not a saw for everyone and it may not be the best thing since sliced bread but darn near.

[Charlie]

well the motor is only $180 not $250 which is significantly less than Charlie keeps quoting but that $180 is still a lot of money.

I got the price from the Ryobi website. $248 plus shipping.

[Knottscott]

When I first joined this forum, the support, and the attitudes of those seemed to be in support of the low-cost BT3x00 saw system. This forum was a lot of fun, then. Not so anymore. Let's see. What has changed? The BT3100, nope -- everytime I go down to my shop it works the same as it did when new. Wood? Nope, that hasn't changed since then either. Hmm, I wonder what has changed? Other Saws? Perhaps.

Others' attitudes -- markedly! That does not change the wood nor the cuts I make. I do not require others' judgements or approval in order to make the saw cuts I require for my work. And I don't like the above poster's comments either.

This forum has changed.

"What about the Sears equivalent saw? What does marketing a saw have to do with it's capabilities?

That post sounds like Congress worrying about letting the top-brass of the big three automakers go because they were afraid they'd "lose the talent". I got news for ya: The talent and the capabilities ain't in the Marketing departments!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thom...I found the above comment insulting and unsolicited (as in, I didn't intentionally take a shot at you). Unless something was lost in the text translation (often the case), your comment appeared personal, intentional, and you don't seem to care in the least that you've overstepped the common guidelines of most forums. Regardless of my opinion of any tool or woodworking related items, this forum has always been extremely friendly, and accepting of opposing and even dissenting opinions....it makes for some great discussion, and I've learned a lot from the folks here. In this specific case, the acceptance of others is what appears to have changed. Hopefully that change only pertains to small minority...one which I hope you choose to not be a part of. Re-read my comments and yours, and tell me don't agree....be honest. I said nothing derogatory about you or the tools you prefer, but as far as I can tell, the same is not true of your statements.

[LCHIEN]

well the motor is only $180 not $250 which is significantly less than Charlie keeps quoting but that $180 is still a lot of money.
[PS I stand corrected, M&D Mower has the motor for $214 plus shipping, it's not $180. ]

I'd love to have a big Unisaw or other cabinet saw but I don't really need one. I work on weekends and some evenings and I like the accuracy of the BT3, I like the gadgets and attachment possibilities. Its stout enough for me, I take care of my tools and it stays in perfect adjustment, I don't push the motor on the rare ocassions when it labors to make a deep rip. The aluminum top requires little care and the whole thing at 125 lbs is heavy enough for all the wood I push across it. Runs smooth and makes great cuts with the WWII blade I have on it most of the time. As an engineer I like looking at the compromises they made to make the saw at this performance and price point. I think HD killed it, they were the sole Ryobi retailer and they didn't order any more; it probably clashed with their other line and they couldn't market it properly.

Still I have not regularly recommended it to those looking for saws on this forum because mostly I don't think they would take as good care as I do, now they would have to buy a used one which complicates things (no warranty, repairs may be required, usage history may be checkered). I guess the Craftsman "BT3" 21829 is a suitable alternative.

So my approach might not be for the benefit of those seeking an active BT3 owners membership - that membership will dwindle as original owners drift away to bigger and better saws or lose interest. But its a fact of life. There is a huge body of BT3 saws out there. To my reckoning there were several hundred thousand of them made.

My BT3 probably won't last 50 years, an I'm not sure what I'd replace it with if it were to disappear tomorrow. Still I've had many enjoyable moments with it and don't regret the purchase - I have probably $600 invested in the saw and Ryobi accessories.

[Charlie]

I admit, I've been away for a while, Spending more time on turning sites (as I have a Grizzly lathe), but I have to agree the attitudes have changed and I don't like it. This used to be the place where tool snobbery was something we chided the other sites while we looked for the best bang for the buck.

Hey, it's not like I'm telling everyone that they have to have a SawStop cabinet table saw. I only offered what I believe is the best bang for the buck nowdays. Take it or leave it.