Advice on table saw choice

[tkarlmann]

OK, sort of

Actually the saw has changed, it's no longer in production. So if a motor goes out it will cost $250 plus shipping, and your at the mercy of Ryobi on that part. In the later years that was about the price for the whole saw. If the motor should ever go out on a Contractor's saw, there are several different electric motor companies in this country that make a motor that will fit, and I would feel better about giveing them my bussiness, plus they are probably alot better motor then what the BT has for the same price. I'll also say that Contractor table saws I think recently have gotten a really unfair bad rap, many were used in cabinet shops. In some cases the birth and advertiseing hype of the Hybrid table saw that seems to have no set standards has takein over some to the uninformed consumer because they look like a Cabinet table saw, in other words when shopping for a Hybrid table saw you need to do your homework. I also feel that now is not the time to be suporting companies that send jobs overseas, and is a good time right now to be buying used American made equipment. What I don't like about this site are the outlandish claims that Harbor Frieght tools are great, and that a Ryobi BT table saw is better then a Contractor's table saw, is the original Hybrid table saw, and is equal to a Industrial Cabinet table saw. People who claim all this remind me of either a used car salesman, or someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. Theirs nothing wrong with haveing pride in the tools you have, and I respect that, but lets not get carried away. I've been a woodworker for about 28 years, and what works for me is the made in the USA Contractor's table saw, a Cabinet table saw would be nice, but in the last few years woodworking has gotten to be even less profitable, crafts shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing, so it makes no sense for me to spend the extra money to upgrade, plus I'm currently unemployed, I couldn't afford the extra cost of the Cabinet table saw, and to have a new electrical service run to my shop. If the Ryobi table saw or any other is what works for you thats all that should matter. Thats just my opinion and reasons, like you have yours. I started out with a Skil table saw, and then a Delta Motorized table saw before I bought what I have now. They all worked and made the cut. It's just more pleasurable, and a time saver to use what I have now. I guess it depends on how serious you want to get into woodworking.

I will stand corrected -- as soon as you brought up the "made in USA" idea. When I first joined this forum I did not have that perspective. As the US economy has tanked, I now think differently. This includes Ryobi as well as HF, in my mind. You are 100% correct to bring this up; it is completely valid.

However, (You knew one was coming), I will continue to say this -- IF the US does not make what I need and want, I will buy an import. I 'owned' a Delta Unisaw for 10 years. I traded it for my BT3100 and got a Ridgid jointer and planer to boot with the same money. The Delta was just too heavy for me to move around my 2-car-garage shop. I absolutely am overjoyed in my ability to move my BT around easily.

Specifics: Motor goes out? Not a problem for me as I have a spare BT3100 in an unopened box! (Which I bought when HD did one of their really deep sales.)

Perhaps ignorance here: Why can't/hasn't someone put a different motor onto a BT saw?

As far as the BT not in production, I still stand on the fact that the Sears version is available, costs too much, and comes complete with a throw-away base that inspires your creativity to build your own base. Too much these days our society wants everything instant, ready-made, prefabricated. Bunk! If you make your own it's simply better.

The answer to economic downturn is not always to pull back; rather to innovate and perhaps STOP doing what isn't selling and put efforts into other areas. If everyone pulled back and tigtened up ... ... um didn't that happen after the crash in 1929? No one wants that again!!!

Good thoughts.

[master53yoda]

I have used the bt's extra height ripping 2 x 4s . It works just fine with a 24 tooth blade.

[Charlie]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have wondered whether the BT's depth-of-cut capacity is actually exploited by very many of its owners. Furniture with legs or or other members larger than about 3" is pretty rare. The ability to cut a 4x4 in one pass -- something I never did with mine, not once -- would be handy for framers and deck builders; but as has been discussed, the BT is not well-suited to being a job-site saw.

A 3-9/16" (or is it 3-5/8"?) depth of cut sounds impressive for braggin' rights, but how often does the typical owner ever need it or use it? Not often, I'll wager.

In the BT owners manual it says that the maximum depth of cut is 3 9/16". If a guy wants to get real technical about it, some 4" x 4"s are 3 5/8", so it would actually be a 1/16" shy. And if I remember correctly, when doing a through cut it is recommended that the bottom of the gullet on the teeth of the blade be about the same height as the board thats being ripped. So if ripping a 4" x 4" that is 3 5/8" tall, the top of the blade, or maximum depth of cut should be about 4 1/8". Also a full rip on a 4" x 4" would be pretty tough goin I would think, especially if it was hardwood or treated lumber, and that maybe a more efficient machine for the task would be a bandsaw with a new blade. The extra depth of the Ryobi is obviously a plus, but once again, lets not get carried away with what it is, makeing alot of those deeper cuts in time I think would be taxing on the saw. It's a light weight machine, and I don't think that the motor has the extra HP for a deeper cut. It could probably make those cuts, but for how long ? A more powerful cabinet table saw or a bandsaw with a new blade I think would be a more apropriate machine to use.

[Charlie]

I guess one thing a person should get out of all of this is that there isn't one particular table saw that will fullfill everyones shop needs. It's not neccessarily that they have flaws, just limitations, or things not desired or needed. In the recent years more models of table saws have entered the market, such as the portable Jobsite table saws and the Hybrid table saws, and with all the choices it can be confuseing to some, if not most. As I mentioned before, it's also hard to make a recommendation to someone thats looking for a table saw without knowing their budget, to buy new or used, parts and accessories availability, how much room they have in their shop, what is available for electricity, or if they are willing to shell out the extra investment to upgrade the electrical for a particular choice, or if thats even an option, and what types of woodworking the person plans on persueing, brand loyalty, etc. It can get as personal as choseing a vehicle.

[LCHIEN]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have wondered whether the BT's depth-of-cut capacity is actually exploited by very many of its owners. Furniture with legs or or other members larger than about 3" is pretty rare. The ability to cut a 4x4 in one pass -- something I never did with mine, not once -- would be handy for framers and deck builders; but as has been discussed, the BT is not well-suited to being a job-site saw.

A 3-9/16" (or is it 3-5/8"?) depth of cut sounds impressive for braggin' rights, but how often does the typical owner ever need it or use it? Not often, I'll wager.

I have. It annoys me that my CMS won't cut a 4x4 when my BT3 will. I guess that's more because the wood doesn't slide through the Miter saw like a TS, The blade goes down and back up. it actually has enough depth to cut thru 3.5" but only under the center of the blade... it misses the outside edge corner.

[LarryG]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have wondered whether the BT's depth-of-cut capacity is actually exploited by very many of its owners. Furniture with legs or or other members larger than about 3" is pretty rare. The ability to cut a 4x4 in one pass -- something I never did with mine, not once -- would be handy for framers and deck builders; but as has been discussed, the BT is not well-suited to being a job-site saw.

A 3-9/16" (or is it 3-5/8"?) depth of cut sounds impressive for braggin' rights, but how often does the typical owner ever need it or use it? Not often, I'll wager.

[LCHIEN]

I just looked up a Delta Contractor's saw, a Delta Unisaw, a Grizzly Contractor's saw, a Grizzly Cabinet saw, a JET Contractor's saw, and a JET Cabinet saw. 3 1/8" depth of cut seems to be the norm on a 10" table saw, except for the BT which the depth of cut is 3 9/16". Interesting.

I think that's one of the positive design tradeoffs for an aluminum top (thinner), higher blade RPM smaller pulley and Universal motor they (Ryobi BT3 designers) made. They were able to put the arbor almost half an inch closer to the top of the table than conventional TS's.

[Charlie]

Yes, a nominal 4x4 in one pass at 90°.

I just looked up a Delta Contractor's saw, a Delta Unisaw, a Grizzly Contractor's saw, a Grizzly Cabinet saw, a JET Contractor's saw, and a JET Cabinet saw. 3 1/8" depth of cut seems to be the norm on a 10" table saw, except for the BT which the depth of cut is 3 9/16". Interesting.

[Black wallnut]

Yes, a nominal 4x4 in one pass at 90°.

[Charlie]

YOu mean you want to compare a 9" saw to a BT3x saw????? One that requires two slices to trim a 4" x 4".

Are you sure that a BT will completely slice through a 4" x 4" in one pass ?

[Charlie]

For the OP- Hope you went out and bought the Craftsman Professional 22124 display model saw. I've never heard one bad thing about the saw, might be the best 120V saw out there.

I'd have to agree, but were there some problems with the motors from Orion ? Or was it just the drill presses ? It would be nice if the OP would return and share what the out come was. He didn't say what the table saw was that he is replaceing, and it's been a week since his last post. The only posts that he has are in this thread, I wonder if it was just a survey.

[Gator95]

It really isn't that difficult- the BT3K is a precision hobbyist wood cutting machine. It is not built for contineous duty, but it is built to make accurate cuts. Really an innovative machine that will cut just as accurately as a cabinet saw when properly set up. It's not a production volume machine that a cabinet saw is. Never was meant to be.

I do not have one, I've got a Ridgid Contractor saw. Personal preference- me likey weight and steel. It's one drawback is the table-mounted trunnion. The motor out the back is really a non-issue IMHO, and dust collection is pretty good with the blade shroud and hose connection.

For the OP- Hope you went out and bought the Craftsman Professional 22124 display model saw. I've never heard one bad thing about the saw, might be the best 120V saw out there. Overpriced at >$1K, but a deal for under $500.

[Charlie]

Ryobi designed a saw in such a way as the known flaws were not present. Built-in DC, short belt, true riving knife, are just some of the features.

Before I had the Contractor's table saw I had a Delta Motorized table saw. The arbor was drivin by a small flat cogged belt, much like the BT. The back of the saw cabinet wasn't open, so dust collection wasn't much of an issue. It had a cast iron top, but the fence was mediocure, allways needed to be checked. The saw did the job, but not nearly as pleasurable as the Contractor's saw with a Unifence, the Contractor's saw is quieter also. I'm sure the cabinet saw is even a little more pleasurable with it's added weight, more HP, and a different trunion system, but it's not in my budget. Most of what I do on the table saw is 90 degree rips, and dados. Crosscut bevels I do on the compound miter saw, so the trunion issue isn't much of a problem for me. The open back on the Contractor's saw I don't think was really a flaw, it just wasn't a concern at the time they came out, the fences aparently weren't a big concern back then either. The Delta 9" Contractor's saw with the mediocure Jetlock fence was a very popular jobsite saw for many years, until Makita, DeWalt, Bosch, etc. came out with their versions of the light weight plastic and aluminum jobsite saws, which I think sell fairly well also.

[Black wallnut]

Well I guess that means you haven't used a Unifence and your assumeing also.

No I have not, nor am I assuming.

The fence can be slid back towards the operator,

actually I was aware of this feature but simply forgot.

and can be safely used as a crosscut stop.

wow what a feature. with the aid of a 99 cent spring clamp and an off cut I can do the same thing, although I'll wager my system is much faster to set up.

Table saws and fences will allways be a highly debateable and personal subject, it's probably the most used tool in a persons woodshop. Probably why I'm so persistant about it is like I mentioned before, the Contractor's table saw in the last couple years I think has takein an bad rap for very little reason, and it frustrates me to watch it. In all fairness I think that if a person wants a saw right away and doesn't want or know how to work on machinery, then maybe the new BT/Craftsman, or a new Contractor's saw, or a new Hybrid, or a new Cabinet saw is the answer. If someone is mechanically inclined, and has the time to work on used equipment to their likeing and save a few bucks, then a used BT, or a Contractor's saw , or used Cabinet saw maybe the answer. Alot of it depends on what the person wants to build, how much the person wants to spend, the space they have available in their shop, electrical requirements, etc. In most cases the original poster asking which saw to buy gives you little to go on, and it becomes a guessing game. Then there are people that think that their Jobsite saw is a Contractors saw ( which is partialy true I guess ), and people that think their Hybrid is a Cabinet saw because it looks like one. It can really get to be confusing unless you can see what they really have. I guess my point was that craft shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing and there are old American made saws out the at pretty darn reasonable prices, especially the Contractor's saws since they have takein a beating from Cabinet saw owners and manufacturers that want to sell you a new Hybrid. Buy when in less demand and the price is low.

The contractor saw has received fair treatment in the press. It is an old design with several well documented flaws. Some of the hybrid saws have fixed these flaws. Ryobi designed a saw in such a way as the known flaws were not present. Built-in DC, short belt, true riving knife, are just some of the features.

[Charlie]

What can your unifence do that my Ryobi will not? Besides the built in low fence option? Both fences will assist the user to guide the work piece into the blade in a controlled straight line.

Charlie there is nothing wrong with you being passionate about your saw. Folks have been passionate about their saws for years on this site but until recently hardly anyone has ever played the my saw is better than your saw card. BT3Central members were once above that nonsense. The fact that many buy without Country of manufacture being their main concern is what it is. Furthermore it borders on bringing politic into the discussion so just drop that part of your argument. If you want to whine about the plight of American Manufacturing I'm sure you can find a political forum for that discussion. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not but this sites membership if far greater than just those folks form the iron belt. We are an international community!

Well I guess that means you haven't used a Unifence and your assumeing also. The fence can be slid back towards the operator, and can be safely used as a crosscut stop. Table saws and fences will allways be a highly debateable and personal subject, it's probably the most used tool in a persons woodshop. Probably why I'm so persistant about it is like I mentioned before, the Contractor's table saw in the last couple years I think has takein an bad rap for very little reason, and it frustrates me to watch it. In all fairness I think that if a person wants a saw right away and doesn't want or know how to work on machinery, then maybe the new BT/Craftsman, or a new Contractor's saw, or a new Hybrid, or a new Cabinet saw is the answer. If someone is mechanically inclined, and has the time to work on used equipment to their likeing and save a few bucks, then a used BT, or a used Contractor's saw , or used Cabinet saw maybe the answer. Alot of it depends on what the person wants to build, how much the person wants to spend, the space they have available in their shop, electrical requirements, etc. In most cases the original poster asking which saw to buy gives you little to go on, and it becomes a guessing game. Then there are people that think that their Jobsite saw is a Contractors saw ( which is partialy true I guess ), and people that think their Hybrid is a Cabinet saw because it looks like one. It can really get to be confusing unless you can see what they really have. I guess my point was that craft shows are down, cabinet shops are closeing and there are old American made saws out the at pretty darn reasonable prices, especially the Contractor's saws since they have takein a beating from Cabinet saw owners and manufacturers that want to sell you a new Hybrid. Buy when in less demand and the price is low. I'm not going to tell you that I think that a American made Contractor's saw is more accurate than a Import BT, or a import Hybrid saw, or a import Cabinet saw, but I will bet that the fit and finish are probably better, the motor is probably of higher quality and will last longer, and aftermarket American made parts are more available, such as belts, bearings, motors, and accessories.