Harbor Freight Gems list updated.

[mschrank]

Thanks for updating and compiling this list...very helpful!

[ragswl4]

The hoopla is your statements came off as INSULTING to those of us that have to watch our budgets... And a good number of us here are budget conscious.

HF sells a lot of stuff that is very trouble prone, but once in a while they offer up an item that has a good track record among fellow recreational woodworkers. Forwarding that information to my fellow budget conscious woodworkers is a BIG part of what the online communities are all about. Helping each other out.

Or did I get that wrong somehow?

No good deed goes unpunished. I personally want to thank you for putting that list together. I own quite a few of those items and I am not what one would call budget restricted but I do like to save a nickel now and then when I can. Many of the HF tools are useful as many of us have learned and many of us have avoided some of the lesser useful tools by reading posts on this site. It's what makes this the best woodworking forum that I have seen on the web. It never hurts to be helpul to your fellow woodworkers.

PS: Those sanding sponges are great for sanding drywall, a pack of 10 for what one 3M sanding sponge costs at the BORG.

[Charlie]

Deleted by me.

[dbhost]

Ill finish by saying that I'd like to reword that statement to : With their frequent sales, and 20% off coupons, their products can lure in inexperienced woodworkers and DIYers that don't know any better. That includes me, many years ago. The end, I'm done.

The hoopla is your statements came off as INSULTING to those of us that have to watch our budgets... And a good number of us here are budget conscious.

HF sells a lot of stuff that is very trouble prone, but once in a while they offer up an item that has a good track record among fellow recreational woodworkers. Forwarding that information to my fellow budget conscious woodworkers is a BIG part of what the online communities are all about. Helping each other out.

Or did I get that wrong somehow?

[Charlie]

Deleted by me.

[Photojosh]

db, I guess I don't know what the big hoopala is about HF. You sound like a salesman thats on commision.

It's a topic that a lot of people are interested in. DB took the time to compile a useful list only to have it belittled by someone who doesn't like HF. I'd say he's got every right to want to defend his position.

[Charlie]

Deleted by me.

[dbhost]

Okay guys, please do recall from my top post here. This list is a compiled list of other lists and posts where the responses were in the distinct majority positive on the product. I tried to make it very clear which products I own, and am happy with, and which ones I do not speak to / of personally due to inexpereince...

Do I think that Harbor Freight offers the best products of their kind? Uh. NO... But some of their products do offer the hobbyist woodworker (or mechanic, or electronics hobbyist) some real bargains.

I think to offhandedly dismiss Harbor Freight tools as useless, or simply junk is unfair.

Yes they do sell some real junk. But to be blunt, and to take the 32208 band saw as an example, to compare it to the Delta that Lowes carries, or the Ridgid that Home Depot carries is fair. And to be blunt after seeing the reviews of all 3 the HF honestly seems like the best saw even without the lower price. The Delta and Ridgid both get LOTS of complaints about vibration. The HF does not. The most common complaints about the HF are common to the Delta and Ridgid as well. Lousy OEM belts, and lousy OEM blades. Riser blocks are available easily for the HF and the Delta, the Ridgid not so much. All 3 of them come with block guides instead of rollers, and no fences, they all have lousy dust collection ports and on and on....

The 34706 Lathe (Jet JWL1236 clone) has TONS of other clones running around where only the paint color differs. And even then, sometimes not even that much, just some sticker changes. One change that the Grizzly version had was a 1HP motor instead of the 3/4 HP version the others had. The Grizzly version has a reputation for burning up those motors, the others don't....

Yes, Harbor Freight stuff can be hit or miss quality, then again, so can Ridgid, Delta, Porter Cable, etc... Is the defect rate for Harbor Freight's house branded tools any higher than the other brands? Maybe. But it is pretty obvious pretty quick, not something that wears out in a year or two, but something that breaks within a couple of weeks... And the return policy at HF is certainly a LOT easier to deal with than the other guys!

Now are there better options out there? Most likely. But are they within the reach of the average hobby woodworker? That has yet to be seen...

I wasn't trying to start a Harbor Freight lovers versus haters flame war here. I was only trying to consolidate a list of items I have seen that people keep talking about positively from Harbor Freight. With their frequent sales, and 20% off coupons, their products can represent excellent value for the home workshop....

[LarryG]

skamath: My experience with the sanding sponges is not entirely unlike yours. Sometimes the grit does come off easily. I use them mainly for shop projects and for knocking the feathers off edges and joinery that will be concealed in the finished work, not for finish sanding on highly visible surfaces. Even so, at about 1/10th the cost of the brand names, I still consider them a good value.

Photojosh: Well stated, in both of your posts. With anything from an HF store, one must always keep in mind that "It is what it is" and that must take into account the price paid.

Loring: I'm with you in that my list of HF gems would be a lot shorter than Dave's. For example, IMO the Pittsburgh F-body clamps are perfectly acceptable in lengths up to 18" provided (a) you don't mind the much-slower-to-operate ordinary machine-screw threads rather than ACME threads, and (b) you're willing to buy perhaps 15 clamps to net a dozen decent ones (and then return the three duds). But the bar size on these clamps is just too light for the sizes past 18", which IMO makes the 24" and 36" a poor investment even for the very few dollars they cost.

[Photojosh]

variability in quality is the same as poor quality.

Only for a given price point. Otherwise it's just "inconsistent quality". One of the things you give up when you head down the price ladder is the idea that things will be consistent as far as quality is concerned. This is true for tools, cars, food, etc. Sure, your mcdonalds hamburger might be fine, or the mouth breather who works the grill might have dropped it on the floor. Sure, your Yugo might give you years of flawless service, or the underpaid workers might have been drunk the day it rolled off the assembly line.

Everyone who shops at a place like Harbor Freight should expect that they will probably have to put a little time in to make up for the saved money. That time might be as quick as looking through a couple boxes to make sure you get clamps with properly operating threads, or you might have to spend an afternoon to fabricate something to make your bandsaw run correctly. Either way, if you don't have the money for premium stuff (or won't use a tool enough to justify premium prices) exchanging this time for the money saved is a good deal for a lot of people.

But anyone who just assumes that they are going to get premium tool quality at a bargain basement price gets no sympathy from me. I do have a bridge in Brooklyn I would be happy to sell them however.

[LCHIEN]

Ya, 3/4" pipe clamps. My HF pipe clamps "grab" after you get a bit of pressure on them, and are impossible to crank down because you merely twist the clamp since the acme screw tolerances are so poor. You crank hard, the pipe tries to twist, you hold it, it tries to move...grrrr. Not to mention all the pins have fallen out so the screw-casting falls down the pipe to the other end.
My old Pony's (about 40 years old or so) and new ones keep cranking and don't bind like the HF's. Simply turn the screw and clamp your work. Yes I've tried using oil, and yes it gives some improvement, but inevitably i get oil on the pipes that then gets on my workpiece. I'm surprised no one else has experienced this, honestly. Maybe I did get a "bad batch", or maybe i'm just picky. Anyway, nuff said.

variability in quality is the same as poor quality. If there's more than a rare poor quality sample then quality control is suspect, from any of a bunch of reasons including improper machining, inferior materials, multiple sources with no source (i.e. incoming quality control) controls, etc. Poor quality and poor quality control is one of the hallmarks of HF; an ocassional good one and a bunch of bad ones are usually the result.

That probably explains your experience vis-a-vis others.

overall, my selection of "gems" from HF is much smaller than Dave (DBHost) 's and his legion of forum experts' choices. Not to say he's/they're wrong but it depends on your tolerance of minor defects on fit and finish plus other operational inconveniences and having to put up with modifications and re-engineering to make it work as well as other tools. I do have a number of HF items and among them I find the digital calipers and dial gauges to be great values.

[skamath]

i bought some sanding sponges from HF and it didn't do anything. the grit would come off continually and the wood hardly looked sanded.

i saw it listed here and thought i'd ask if others had better experience with this item.

btw, one item that i bought recently which i thought was really useful:
Non-Contact Voltage Tester
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97218

before this i bought a non-contact one from walmart (GE branded). it would give false positives all the time. i bring it close to metal and it would sound off.

[dbhost]

I'll take the pepsi challenge on the HF pipe clamps any day. Put a jorgenson and an HF clamp side by side and do a few large panel glue ups. I think you'll pay the extra few bucks after a bit. And DB, the Jorgenson's are made in the US, and I'd argue that quality vs. price puts the HF ones to shame.

I own Jorgenson bar clamps in 36" along side my HF bar clamps... The Jorgensons honestly don't work a penny different from the HF clamps...

[Mr__Bill]

Ya, 3/4" pipe clamps. My HF pipe clamps "grab" after you get a bit of pressure on them, and are impossible to crank down because you merely twist the clamp since the acme screw tolerances are so poor. You crank hard, the pipe tries to twist, you hold it, it tries to move...grrrr. Not to mention all the pins have fallen out so the screw-casting falls down the pipe to the other end.
My old Pony's (about 40 years old or so) and new ones keep cranking and don't bind like the HF's. Simply turn the screw and clamp your work. Yes I've tried using oil, and yes it gives some improvement, but inevitably i get oil on the pipes that then gets on my workpiece. I'm surprised no one else has experienced this, honestly. Maybe I did get a "bad batch", or maybe i'm just picky. Anyway, nuff said.

Well, I do have a few like that too. It is what taught me to always check them first, making sure the screw is in line with the pipe and it moves smoothly. I expect that I reject about half I pick up, most because the acme screw is not moving smoothly. The trick is to have a piece of pipe to try them on, I find that plastic is fine and someplace along the line I picked up a piece of 1/2 and 3/4" with threads in the plastic. They live in the box that goes in the truck when I take a trip. My local HF is 2.5 or 5 hours away depending on direction.

If nothing else this discussion has alerted others to the problem and they may look closely when they make a purchase. Something we should do whenever we buy something.

Bill,

[rollo]

Ya, 3/4" pipe clamps. My HF pipe clamps "grab" after you get a bit of pressure on them, and are impossible to crank down because you merely twist the clamp since the acme screw tolerances are so poor. You crank hard, the pipe tries to twist, you hold it, it tries to move...grrrr. Not to mention all the pins have fallen out so the screw-casting falls down the pipe to the other end.
My old Pony's (about 40 years old or so) and new ones keep cranking and don't bind like the HF's. Simply turn the screw and clamp your work. Yes I've tried using oil, and yes it gives some improvement, but inevitably i get oil on the pipes that then gets on my workpiece. I'm surprised no one else has experienced this, honestly. Maybe I did get a "bad batch", or maybe i'm just picky. Anyway, nuff said.