Table saw upgrade decision

[LarryG]

A riving knife moves with the blade (up and down, as well as tilt), so it's always there, including non-through cuts.

This is slightly splitting (also no pun intended) hairs, but this presumes the riving knife doesn't extend above the top of the blade. For my now-retired BT3100, and now my PM2000, I bought one of Lee Styron's shorty RKs that doesn't extend above the blade and which can, as you say, be left in place for all types of cuts (assuming one is using a standard 10" blade: it does have to come off when I fit my 6" dado stack).

[Knottscott]

Happy little trees guy? :P

http://www.bobross.com/

I wonder if the "other" Bob Ross (BORK guy) knows about the "happy little trees" guy! I think I'm gonna have to send him the link!

[Coolmeadow Creations]

It may be a little higher than you are thinking, but the new Grizzly G0690 (30" rip) and G0691 (50" rip) will be available in the next few weeks. These have honest and true riving knives. No blade shroud for dust collection. There are only 3 showrooms to see the Grizzly products, Wash state, Missouri, and, hmm, is it Pennsylvania?? Any way, there are some retail dealers of the Shop Fox saws. Same company from what I understand, different color, and a better warranty. I haven't been able to find if Shop Fox will have a model of this saw or not. I bet eventually they will. But the new Laguna Platinum saw is the same, with some differences. The Laguna doesn't show to come with the separate riving knife, only the splitter/guard. Grizzly has both. Laguna has an extruded piece of aluminum on the miter guage with a flip down stop, Grizzly just has the same base miter guage. Laguna only offers the long rip version, Grizzly has both. Laguna shows a right tilt, but it may be the higher priced saw that may have some other differences. Laguna has a Leeson 3 hp motor, Grizzlys have their Tia/Chi 3 hp motor. Laguna is 1695.00 plus shipping (although free shipping through 1/31/09). Grizzly is 1250.00 plus shipping on the 690, and 1350.00 plus shipping on the 691. Shipping is 146.50 for either one.
Both appear to have a similarly heavy trunnion set up to Grizzly's 1023. Neither show a 5 hp option at this time. The Laguna is evidently available for shipping now. The Grizzly units are supposed to be to them at the end of this month, give or take a few days.
I'm guessing Laguna will have this saw at any woodworking show they are attending. They have a 5 part video on their web site.
Just thought I'd muddy up your waters a little. Jim.

[drumpriest]

Carlos "I've never had a kickback with a properly-tuned saw", well sir, you have been lucky! Not all kickbacks are caused by a rip fence that is out of alignment. Often times the internal stresses in a piece of wood will cause it to pinch the back of the blade once they have been released from cutting. The RK stays a constant small distance from the back of the blade vs. a traditional guard's splitter, which does not. If you set your blade height as recommended with a traditional guard there will be a significantly larger gap than would ever happen with a RK.

Both of my table saws were bought in large part because of their RKs, and it certainly is not the case that I use it a some kind of crutch for being lax in my saw setup! There have been many occasions where I have seen a board pinched together off the back of the RK where it would have been a kickback if that system had not been in place, it's particulary true of wood with a lot of figure, as the changing grain directions can make for some unpredictable movement when the piece is cut.

If you are not using a splitter then I wish you continued luck. Side note though is there are not RK conversions for some older guard style saws that opens up the options, as well as ever more saws with RKs on the market.

[mmmdennie]

Buy the Grizzly ts

The Grizzly 1023 comes with a pretty darn good fence. I have to excuse myself. I think a lot of you folks are hung up Brands (ie Delta, Jet, etc) If you would do a little investigating you will find that all of the better brands come out of Taiwan. For example compare the SunHill, grizzly,Jet, Delta jointers. They are all just about exactly the same machines. There are some small differences such as fasteners, etc. The design of the fence and it's adjusting mechanisms are virtually the same on all the machines. I for one feel that Grizzly gives you one of the better values for your money on all of their machines, and their freight costs are very attractive compared to some of the other manufacturers. Sorry, but I had to share my opinion for what it's worth!!!!

[drumpriest]

mmmdennie, I don't think your argument holds water, several posts in this thread have recommend Grizzly, in fact more than recommend Delta or Jet. My primary argument has been for RKs over the rather ancient splitter design, finally RKs are becoming available on more affordable saws, and they are a big improvement.

I agree with you about most of the tools being made in the same general area, there have been articles about this fact in wood working magazines in the past year as well. I don't know that it really affects quality all that much, so long as the inspection of the product line is good. I personally have a PM2000, because when I bought it I got a good deal, and I really wanted the RK, and at the time there were far less options for that. I've been very happy with it, that's not a statement AGAINST Grizzly, more a statement PRO Powermatic.

If there is a wood working site on the net that is NOT hung up on branding and high prices, it's this one, the basis for this site is love of a 300$ table saw. And your opinion is worth a bunch, as you have the Griz, we love to hear your experience with it.

[SARGE..g-47]

The Grizzly 1023 comes with a pretty darn good fence. I have to excuse myself. I think a lot of you folks are hung up Brands (ie Delta, Jet, etc) If you would do a little investigating you will find that all of the better brands come out of Taiwan. For example compare the SunHill, grizzly,Jet, Delta jointers. They are all just about exactly the same machines. There are some small differences such as fasteners, etc. The design of the fence and it's adjusting mechanisms are virtually the same on all the machines. I for one feel that Grizzly gives you one of the better values for your money on all of their machines, and their freight costs are very attractive compared to some of the other manufacturers. Sorry, but I had to share my opinion for what it's worth!!!!

I'll secong Keith on the fact that people on this forum are not hung up on Brands as that is about as far from the truth as you are going to get. There are a great number on two other larger forums that would make that a very accurate statement. Someone mentions a comparison of Jet and Grizzy TS with a $1000 budget and you get responses that you should spend $4000 and get a Sawstop.

Same with smaller tools.. Milwaukee or Bosch jig saw for around $150... spend more and get a Festool jig saw which isn't as accurate as the Bosch IMO.

As far as they're all the same as they come from the same source.. to some degree but unless you compare tools component to component that is not always true either. I had dinner at the International WW Fair last August with the gentlemen that owns the plant in Taiwan who manufacturers for Sunhill Machinery.

I also had dinner with the gentlemen from Taiwan who manufacturers for the Sawstop. They in fact are the same gentleman who owns Gee-tech and I can assure you the two machines are not idenical nor even close in certain components. Yes.. most components on jointers are similar as they come from the same source as other machines as BS's.. etc.. but depending on how the manufacturer designed the machine there can be big differeces.

So.. without going farther into this which I could... you could be getting a similar machine but you could be getting a radically different designed machine and unless you physical comparsons outside the machine and under the hood.. you simply can't make a blanket statement they are the same because they come from the same plant or country of manufacture.

Regards...

[jackellis]

Internal stress in wood -- controlled by Satan himself.

Amen! No problems so far on the TS, but I have had all kinds of problems with stresses while trying to resaw ash in particular. It locks up so tight around a bandsaw blade that there's no way to move the workpiece in either direction.

I can tolerate working without a guard or splitter when cutting dados (barely), but I don't do through cuts without them. Feels more uncomfortable than walking down the street naked.

Kickback: there's them that has had it and there's them that will have it. [Adapted from an old pilot's cliche about gear-up landings]

[Carlos]

So basically there are a lot of good choices. For right now the TS purchase is on hold or waiting for a great deal. There are two woodworkers in the house and the other wanted a lathe. She did make the point that it was half the price of a new TS (found a good used deal).

[BerniePA]

FWIW - Grizzly is having a sale with a lot of their table saws with free shipping right now.

[gsmittle]

Internal stress in wood -- controlled by Satan himself.

If you do the Shaking a Rubber Chicken Over the Wood While Standing on Your Left Foot While Wearing the BT Thong ritual, the internal stress goes away. The nice little pills the guys in the rubber truck gave me helped, too.

Seriously, though, +1 on Lee's Shark Guard. When I finally set up my "free" Jet cab saw, I WILL find a way to put an SG on it.

g.

[poolhound]

So basically there are a lot of good choices. For right now the TS purchase is on hold or waiting for a great deal. There are two woodworkers in the house and the other wanted a lathe. She did make the point that it was half the price of a new TS (found a good used deal).

I guess it depends on wether you are looking for new or used. You may find a good used deal but new prices seem only to have a tendecy to go up. I though Delta had some promo on their saws but jet has some deals right now from around $150 their contractor saw to nearly $600 of an Xacta. Although you could get a Griz cabinet saw e.g. 1023XXX for way less than an Xacta and as Bernie says they have free shipping roght now which is worth around $150 off.

[Carlos]

I'm open to new or used, just trying to decide on the best option from both a "deal" perspective and quality/usability. Today someone offered me a Powermatic contractor's saw, which is probably not what I want. It seems stable and has a nice iron top with 52" extension, but only 1.5 HP and lighter in total weight. The price wasn't killer enough to sway me. I'll probably just keep looking for a good deal. The Grizzly offer is also very tempting.

[Carlos]

Anybody have an opinion on General brand saws? Seems kind of like Grizzly in many ways. I found a deal on the model 50-175M1 hybrid saw for $450. Thoughts? Great fence, nice iron table, 2HP motor.

[ragswl4]

Anybody have an opinion on General brand saws? Seems kind of like Grizzly in many ways. I found a deal on the model 50-175M1 hybrid saw for $450. Thoughts? Great fence, nice iron table, 2HP motor.

All I could find on the web with reference to this saw was a contractors saw. Only one pic and that model had the motor hanging off the back of the saw so I don't think this is a hybrid saw but I could be wrong.