Table saw upgrade decision

[Carlos]

It's time to move up from my BT to something more serious. My local dealer has factory refurb Unisaws for $800 with a full original Delta warranty. That seems like a good deal. This includes the cast iron wings but nothing more (no fence).

Then I have to make a fence decision. The Biesemeyer is obviously highly regarded, but expensive. They also sell the SawStop system which is like the Biesemeyer but actually much smoother-running and costs about $50 less. It does require some drilling to fit. The other options are cheaper (both in cost and quality), so I think they're probably not work considering.

I can walk out with the Delta and Biesemeyer for $1269.

Thoughts/ideas/comments?

[sweensdv]

With a little patience and searching places such as craigslist and your local classifieds I'll bet you could find a used Uni for considerably less than $1269. You could also get a brand new Grizzly 1023 for less money.

[Uncle Cracker]

It would be hard to go wrong with the combo you have focused on. I have heard that the Grizzly pro fence is similar to the Biese, but retains some of the features that Biese has dropped over the years. That may be a way to have your cake and be better able to afford it, too. Might be worthwhile for you to check out whether the Grizz fence is available separately, and at what cost.

[SARGE..g-47]

$800 for a factory re-furbished Uni-saw would be a "killer deal" if... it had the fence with it. I paid $999 for one with a Biesemeyer 3 years ago that normally sold for around $1399 which makes the $800 about right. But... I had demonstrated band-saws for the dealer at the local Atlanta WW Show and that was a scratch my back.. I'll scratch yours deal between us.

Not a bad deal.. not a great deal. I am going to agree with Sween that if you are patient a better deal can be had on a used 3-6 years old. As little as some people really use a TS that could relate to like new. As far as warranty given with the factory re-conditioned which is one year when I purchased... if you check out a used before you buy and it is sound... there is not much that can go wrong down the road other than belts.. etc. Again.. if a used looks somewhat new.. the motor has probably not been run that much.

BTW.. Highland WW is selling 10 Steel City 3 HP 50" SC Industrial fence (which is better than the current Biesemeyer as it has the same rear bolt and nylon pad that allowed the rear of fence to ride the rail instead of table) for around $850 at the Atlanta WW Show this week-end. Those saws have been replaced with granite top models.

So... deals are around if you keep your eyes open and stay in pursuit....

Good luck...

[cabinetman]

Patience is a virtue, especially if you're looking at saws. Have you considered all the variables, such as the Unisaw being 220V (if it is), length of the fence, space for any side or outfeed tables.

I also agree that good deals can come by if you are keeping your eyes open. You may find a better deal with a "like new" machine.
.

[Carlos]

I've been patiently shopping for about six months. Around here if a saw shows up cheap, it's a heap. If it shows up mid-priced and isn't a heap, it goes in minutes. Most are advertised for near the price of the refurb.

Have you considered all the variables, such as the Unisaw being 220V (if it is), length of the fence, space for any side or outfeed tables.

We have a few 220v machines now, so not a big problem. I have a 30a circuit feeding the DC, bandsaw, and plasma cutter; the table saw will go on that. TS + DC = 20a, so well within limits. The other 220v tools are on another circuit. The BT3100 has the long table and rails, and it's in an area with lots of space. The outfeed is having the garage door open.

You could also get a brand new Grizzly 1023 for less money.

Yeah, that and the Steel City saws were also on my list. I haven't found any place that stocks the Grizzly to go look at it. I really don't want to spend $1k+ without touching it. The only Steel City saws I found have the smaller side extension, and I think I want a large one. Then again, I don't use it much now, so not sure.

I was less than impressed with the interior construction of the Steel City saw. Maybe I'm looking at things that don't matter, but there is certainly far less mass in the mechanism.

[Knottscott]

$1269 for a Uni with full warranty is pretty good, but it does put you smack in the price range of some Grizzly, Shop Fox, and Steel City deals. I'd look at as many as I could, compare total delivered costs, support, warranty, etc, then decide based on what makes sense to you, and what really floats your boat. The Steel City industrial fence is considered better than the Biese by many.

A Vega fence is a reasonable alternative to a fence that's appropriate for that saw.

Executive decision time!

[SARGE..g-47]

"I was less than impressed with the interior construction of the Steel City saw. Maybe I'm looking at things that don't matter, but there is certainly far less mass in the mechanism"..... Carlos

Which Steel City saw and model # were you looking at Carlos? There is going to be variance between high end and low end as Steel City and other manufacturers cater to various budgets. I sold my Uni-saw to get a Steel City 5 HP saw and I can tell you that the mass and trunnions on this particular saw make the Uni-saw look like a toddler in comparison.

I can also tell you that the Uni-saw is not a one piece component as the Steel City. It has a weak component .. left rear that will break if the saw is dropped in shipment to hard. That's why there are so many Uni-saw factory re-conditioned available. You can thank the trucking companies for that pretty much as once the Uni-saw is set into place permanently the problem is far less likely..

Good luck...

[Larryl]

Carlos, I moved from Bt3100 to a Grizzly G0478(hybrid) last year and while not a uni it does have the feel of "arn" and the Shop Fox fence is as smooth as I could ask for. Now comes the, however, the fixed spliter is a long way from a riving knife, no blade lock, and no vacuum shroud around the blade.
My point is that while the basic well built CI saw is smooth as glass and a joy to use, you might want to consider looking for the newer designs with these features (I'm sure all with have them soon). Good luck in your search.

[drumpriest]

I still think the new Ridgid saw is a pretty excellent choice, but maybe not enough muscle in comparison with the BT to make it worth it. The Jet pro shop saws look pretty good, mainly because of the RK. A lot people seem to like the Griz 1023, my only concern with it is lack of RK, but I bought a PM2000 in order to keep the RK, so it's a matter of what value you assign that feature.

[Popeye]

I've had my Griz 1023 for over three years now and I don't see myself ever going to anything else but...... If I were to upgrade this is what I'd have http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3...ng-Knife/G0690. Pat

[Knottscott]

I still think the new Ridgid saw is a pretty excellent choice, but maybe not enough muscle in comparison with the BT to make it worth it. The Jet pro shop saws look pretty good, mainly because of the RK. A lot people seem to like the Griz 1023, my only concern with it is lack of RK, but I bought a PM2000 in order to keep the RK, so it's a matter of what value you assign that feature.

The new Griz G0690 and G0691 look very much like a 1023 with riving knives....they a litte bit more expensive. Also, a fellow wwer by the name of Bob Ross from Walnutacres Woodworking has developed a retrofit riving knife that fits the 1023....it's called the BORK. I've had one on my nearly identical Shop Fox 1677 since August...it works!

[Carlos]

Since I don't know the difference between a splitter and a riving knife, I'd have to assign it no value. What am I missing? I've never had a kickback with a properly-tuned saw, so I don't know if I care.

[jonmulzer]

The new Griz G0690 and G0691 look very much like a 1023 with riving knives....they a litte bit more expensive. Also, a fellow wwer by the name of Bob Ross from Walnutacres Woodworking has developed a retrofit riving knife that fits the 1023....it's called the BORK. I've had one on my nearly identical Shop Fox 1677 since August...it works!

Happy little trees guy? :P

http://www.bobross.com/

[Tom Miller]

Since I don't know the difference between a splitter and a riving knife, I'd have to assign it no value. What am I missing? I've never had a kickback with a properly-tuned saw, so I don't know if I care.

Properly tuned saw -- controlled by user.
Internal stress in wood -- controlled by Satan himself.

A riving knife moves with the blade (up and down, as well as tilt), so it's always there, including non-through cuts. A splitter is set independently from the blade, and, as many have attachment hardware on top, they're only good for through cuts. If they can be adjusted for tilt, it's a separate adjustment from the blade.

When the time comes, a RK will be a big part of my decision.

Otherwise, a positive point of the Uni in question is that it will probably have a much more thorough going-over than anything that arrives new in box.

Regards,
Tom