Shop Lighting - Poll - Color Temperature Preference

[Carlos]

Retro tubes cost MORE than whole fixtures, so I can't see the reason to keep the old fixtures. Each time one of my tubes fails, the whole fixture goes out and an LED fixture goes in. I even have one spare LED fixture on standby at all times.

[LCHIEN]

That's what I've done, is have a spare, tested LED fixture on standby. Although I am currently without.

[capncarl]

Lowes sell a 2 pack of 4’ LED 6500k daylight retrofit tube/bulbs for $13.95. If you have an older t12 fixture a new T8 electronic ballast cost $15 or less. With these you don’t have to deal with replacing a fixture. I do agree that if your fixtures are the box store sheet metal type (all corners come pre sharpened from the factory) and you have to replace the bulbs and ballast it might be more economical and easier to just replace the whole fixture. But That’s just more trash in the landfill.

All of my 4’ fluorescent fixtures are vapor tight fiberglass construction with polyacrylic lenses that sold for about $100 each when I installed them 10 yrs ago, but sell for around $50 now that China is the supplier. I really like these fixtures because the lens protects the bulbs from me moving a long board or pipe around and breaking the bulbs. These sealed fixtures are also not a huge dust catcher like an open fluorescent fixture. I was lucky to catch Lowes closing out all of their store brand 4’ LED retrofit bulbs and purchased enough bulbs to refit every bulb in the shop two times for less than $3 per bulb in case price. We had previously sworn off purchasing any store brand regular type bulbs because of their short life but had good luck with several store brand led tubes. No failures on these store brand tubes yet.

[Carlos]

Those tubes are awful to my eyes. Only 1800 lumens, and blue light with a green cast. The Honeywell fixtures are 5000 lumens. Even Rockler's tube replacements are much more dollars per lumen. If you have a lot of fixtures already, it may not matter.

[capncarl]

Comparing LED tube lumens with fluorescent tube lumens is not the same. Fluorescent light shines through the entire circumference of the bulb, with a 360 degree beam angle. Probably a third of their light shines up into the fixture, not doing you a lot of good unless your fixture is mirrored.

Most LED tubes have a 120 or 150 degree beam angle, with all its light focused toward the area you're illuminating, with none of it wasted. Subtracting a third of the rated lumens on a fluorescent tube brings you near the LED tubes lumens. (2900 fluorescent lumens, comes down to 1947)

My wife said the same thing about the light in my shop, she couldn’t stand it! After I pointed out it was the same light that she raves about being so nice in her kitchen, it doesn’t bother her anymore.

[Carlos]

I was comparing LED to LED. The retrofit tube LEDs to the LED fixtures. The retro tubes are only 1800, and the fixtures are 5000. That and the color are why I didn't buy the retro tubes.

[cwsmith]

I've had the same experience as Carlos. 6500 K fixtures from HD were horribly harsh and after twenty minutes or so I'd get a headache from them. Here in my basement work area I have four fixtures w/ two tubes each. Three of the fixtures have 'daylight' florescent's in them, but a year or so ago one of the ballasts died, so I replaced the fixture with a 5000 K LED shop light. It was definitely much hotter than the previous 'daylight' florescent's. But I liked it because in that particular corner is where I am doing a lot of photography work. To make it tolerable, I shortened the hanging hardware so it sits well up above the tiles in the suspended ceiling area. In that position, I don't get any direct glare on my monitor or the table areas where I have scanner and light table review areas... just directly above the table where I look at the documents, photographs, and objects that I wish to photograph. I also have a pull chain to take off that particular fixture when needed.

Out in the woodshop, I have the Sunco lights that I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread. Those LED's are housed in frosted plastic tubes that are integral with the metal fixture. At 4000K I don't find them at all bothersome.

Yesterday, I had one of those round decorative incandescent bulbs burn out in one of our bathroom fixtures. Checking our supply I didn't have a replacement and so temporarily replaced it with an A19 LED rated as 4000 K Cool White.... wow, it was way too bright and very harsh, looking more like the LED 5000 K shop lights. I went to three stores this morning to find a matching bulb for the older ones, but couldn't find any, so I guess we need to do some shopping for a proper replacement all around.

I guess my concern is that light color designations don't seem to be all that accurate and apparently any regulation of that appears to be pretty loose.

CWS

[leehljp]

I am seeing a pattern here on some minor inconsistencies in the "K" ratings, and I saw these early on with the introduction of LEDs in Japan ahead of the introductions in the USA.

Early on, 4000 & 4100 lighting looked like a pure white in the pict chart in Loren's original post and just beyond the "warm" zone. 5000K tended to be in the beyond pure white and into slightly purplish/blue and somewhat harsh, again according to Lorings chart.

Now, I see most 4000 & 4100Ks to exhibit a very slight warm tone and the 5000Ks have shifted more to pure white light, - that is not bluish or harsh. (I'm saying the the chart Loring posted is different from most current K colors today. 5000K is not blue but pure white and 4100 is slightly in the "warm" area instead of white as the chart shows.) Originally, the chart WAS correct, but not today.

With this in mind and using "daylight" term as a standard, I purchased lighting for use in viewing the wood of my pens (not for photography's sake,) but for the hue or tone that it gave to holly or bloodwood. Bloodwood* in particular looked bright (and slightly maroonish) red under 4100 in my shop in Japan, and early on for LED bulbs when I returned to the US in late 2010. I had 3 screw-in 4100 LEDs at the time over my lathe. Then I moved my lathe in 2012 and added a 4100 dual tube (4ft) over the lathe. Suddenly, the bloodwood took on a hint of orangish red. Something was not right. I moved one of the 4100 screw in bulbs over the lathe and the screw in 4100 was bright white in daylight tones - and made the 4100 from HD look like a hint of yellowish (Warm).

Since then, I have noticed that 4100s have continued to be slightly more "warm" than they were originally, and the 5000Ks have drifted down from a harsh overtones to the tones/hues of the early 4100K bulbs..

There probably should be a "standard" but there has been a shift from what they originally were.

Bloodwood* - I put an asterisk next to "Bloodwood" above because it, and Holly, are my test for colors under a light. Another guy on the pen forum noticed (along with me) that the name "Bloodwood" lately has used for another wood ("Satine") in the last 3 to 4 years. Satine being listed as "bloodwood" distorts the representation. Satine is bright red but slightly dull orangish and dull brownish, and turns brown quick. Back in 2005, I bought a 6 ft long 6 inch wide 3/4 inch thick Bloodwood board and still have half of it. It is still bright maroonish red and has stayed that color even today when in real daylight. "Satine" bloodwood is quite different in its tones/hues, and under 5000K, it shows easily, but not quite as different under 4000K.

My 4100 lights (in half of my shop) cause my woods to reflect a different color than my 5000 lights, with the 5000K being more accurate to outside daylight.

As a caveat, I will say my opinions are purely subjective to my eyesight.

[Carlos]

I haven't noticed major variations in actual color temp, but LEDs of varying qualities have different levels of yellow-green cast. This is different from overall temperature. Cheaper LEDs tend to have a green component. Inside my boat I had some $20 CREE replacements for the halogen bulbs, and some $1 eBay replacements. The measured color temperature was actually quite close, but the cheap ones looked slightly green. They also dimmed over time and the good ones did not.

[cwsmith]

Somewhere long ago in the early 80's, when I first started to get a more serious interest in photography, I read that the basis of "daylight" was 5,000 K on the color temperature chart; and, that basis was basically the color of sunlight measured at the base of the Washington Monument on a perfecltlyt clear day, at exactly 12 noon on July 4th. Probably just a story, but I figure the 'measurement' had to start from something.

My digital camera has several adjustments for getting the color just right, but it doesn't have an actual color temperature meter device built in. Separate color temperature meters are available, some in the $200 range, but frankly its hard to justify just for curiosity's sake. I guess for shop lights we just find what works for us and go from there.

CWS

[Carlos]

There are several color meter apps, and I use photo/video camera apps that have their own color meter. When shooting high-quality video, it's important to average the scene and then lock it. Nothing looks more hokey than panning a video and seeing the white balance drift around. I used to have a color meter with my pro cameras, but now I shoot 100% with iPhones which have the ability.