Thoughts on DC for my shop

[atgcpaul]

I've been thinking about redoing the DC in my shop now that I've got the jointer/planer.

You can see in the diagram where my DC is now. Flex hose runs from my DC down to the floor where it connects to 4" PVC that runs between my TS and workbench and connects to my TS' dust port. There's a wye at the TS where I will connect a flex hose for my drum sander, lunchbox planer, or bandsaw. I added a wye at the DC connected to PVC pipe that runs up to the ceiling and then over to the lathe in the corner. I planned on branching off there to my CMS.

All of my tools are on mobile bases but as you can see, most of my tools live on the right side of the shop (the JJP is now in the vicinity of the belt sander) and the DC is on the left.

I am going to find a new home for the lift cart, but I was thinking about moving the DC there. Only downside is then I'd have a hose across the aisle whenever I use the TS. It would be nice to have the DC trash bin closer to the door, too.

The DC is tall but I don't frequently open the garage door--maybe once a year.

What do you think?

[cwsmith]

Where is the dust pickup on your table saw... left, right, back? I think I'd try to locate my dust collector in relation to that, along a wall, rather than out onto the floor.

Then I think I'd try to position my main tools inline or at least in a useable order where I could most efficiently run my dust pickup with a minimum of bends. Then keep my lumber or non-dust (or minimum dust) tools down stream from there... like along one wall opposite the dust collector.

I'm still working on the dust collection positioning for my new shop. In doing so, the plan is to position my HF dust collector just outside the shop/tool area and then run my ducting straight down one wall, picking up the jointer, planer, BT, drill press and RAS. The jointer and planer are mobil and wiil be positioned as needed, the BT is in the center of the shop, and the drill press and RAS are in fixed positions near the end of that one 20 ft wall. At the end of that wall, I'll elbow off to pick up the router table which is centered on that far end (12 ft wide) wall. That leaves the work bench and smaller tool on the right side 20 ft wall, where the tools are much smaller (9" bandsaw, belt/disc sander, and scroll saw).

Not sure if my thinking/planning is flawed in any way, but we'll see. I still haven't posted the layout for that, but these past few weeks have been exceptionally busy here. Hopefully I find the time within a few days.

My new shop, is a Amish built 12 x 20 shed located right next to my garage. So the dust collector and lumber storage will be in the garage, leaving the actual wood working tool in the shed. While the actual woodworking area is about half of yours, I don't have to infringe on that with lumber storage or the dust collector itself.

CWS

[capncarl]

Atgcpaul, where are you going to put the new planer/jointer? I'd locate the dust collector where the lift table is now and run a line down that wall for those tools and run an overhead line for the tools that live on the floor. I don't really like the way overhead pipes look but I've never tripped over them either! My overhead 4" PVC to the center of my shop for my saw, planer and sander has a 2' long drop down pipe that I connect a flex hose to. That way I can roll everything in the next room and easily remove the flex hose when I need to bring in an auto. My power to the center of the room also comes from overhead ( 20 amp to the door operator) and I bunji it to the hose / unplug it when pulling in auto.

CWS, while you are setting up your shop is an ideal time to route your dust collector piping under the floor, especially since your collector is going to be outside.

[poolhound]

I think that right wall where the majority of tools are is the right place. I get the dumping the trash issue where having it closer to the door would help however from a DC efficieny point of view I would try and locate it at approx the midpoint of that right wall then you keep your max runs to approx 12' rather than 24'. I also agree with Carl that you should consider an overhead run to the TS. Not sure what your floor is but could you go under it? I guess that would be tough if its concrete. As my shop is now in a shed I have approx a foot under the floor so ran one section from my DC to the middle of the shop for the TS/router table setup.

Having just moved a lathe into the shop I am trying to figure out the DC for it and am still not sure if I am going to go over or under for that :-(

[atgcpaul]

Where is the dust pickup on your table saw... left, right, back? I think I'd try to locate my dust collector in relation to that, along a wall, rather than out onto the floor.

From the overhead view I provided, the dust chute on the TS is to the right.

Atgcpaul, where are you going to put the new planer/jointer?

Approximately where the drum sander (I called it a wide belt sander) or BS is depending on what length of board I need to process. If I'm doing short boards, where the sander is. If I'm doing longer ones, where the BS is. I don't use that drum sander too much so it'll probably get pushed to one of the back corners and get wheeled out when needed. All of my tools are on mobile bases so I am used to moving things around to accommodate for stock length or DC hookup. The DC is also mobile but it's a little awkward to move around because it's top heavy.

I also agree with Carl that you should consider an overhead run to the TS. Not sure what your floor is but could you go under it? I guess that would be tough if its concrete.

The floor is concrete so I won't be going down. So sounds like move the DC to where the lift cart is now and run an overhead pipe and drop to the left side of the TS (as seen from above in my picture)--where it's connect to the DC now, right? One snag with that is my router table is my TS extension on that side. I'm thinking when I want to use the router table, disconnect the overhead pipe and connect flex hose from the right side of the TS (where there is currently a wye) to the DC.

Almost all the lumber on that tool wall is at least 3-4' off the ground on shelving. It gives me enough height to slide parts of my tools underneath. Other than using it up to make more space, I don't have another place to put it.

[cwsmith]

Which is more efficient, or doesn't it matter, if the duct/PVC line is overhead or under? The pickup on the HF, unmodified, is low. If you follow the mods that I've often seen, then it is sort of mid-height. Most of the tools have their pickup low, except for any additional pickup you might provide for above the table saw.

I see most ductwork/PVC line run high, usually in the upper corner where the wall meets the ceiling... is that for efficiency or just the best place to get it out of the way?

My thinking is that you will want to get that new planer as close to the dust collector as possible, as it might well be the biggest producer of chips and dust. Having the hose or pipe run up to the ceiling and then back down to the planer would introduce a couple of flow reducing bends.


CWS

[capncarl]

From what I have experienced the length of the dust collector line does not make much difference, ( 12-50 feet) I have yet to clog my lines like I have heard some reports of. Maybe the tool itself my make a difference. My largest maker of sawdust is the craftsman planer that has a discharge fan that assists the chip removal, but the delta jointer does not have any assist fan. My dust collector lines and hoses are all inside my shop which is always above 65 degrees but below 75 degrees, that may be a game changer as a dust collector line that is cold or has condensate in it may be prone to clog.
Below the floor dust collector piping may be prone to clogging because of this temp change?

[dbhost]

I guess I would ask, what tools make the most fine dust. That would be your table saw, CMS, and sanders. The lathe, band saw, jointer / planer, and drill press make mostly chips / shavings. I would try to position the tools that make the finest dust within close proximity, and keep the dust collector as close to them as possible. In your diagram, with your intended position of the DC you are spot on, except for the CMS. Having said that, I have noted that miter saws are notoriously bad for dust collection. I am not sure what you can do about that... I do assume that the Rigid sander can be moved closer to the DC when you use it right?

[poolhound]

It seems line you may not have a choice in location of the DC, so its more a question of whether you want to go to the trouble of running duct overhead or putting up with flex hose running across the floor. I agree with Carl to a point although its undoubtedly a fact that pressure loss will be way less in a 12' of duct than in 50'. Given that you have little choice on your DC location I would just make sure you locate your high volume dust/chip makers closest to the DC so you can run with the minimum duct/hose possible. This basically means your jointer and planer and then probably the widebelt sander.

[capncarl]

Atgcpaul, it will be interesting to see how much chips your new beast will put out! A test would be to roll it out on the driveway and shove a couple of boards through it with the tool cutting as deep as it will safely handle. I know my jointer will spit out a mountain of chips but the board is being push in faster than a planer feeds, but your new plane is a lot more capable that that. With that info you may be able to make a better educated guess of what kind of collector system you need.

[atgcpaul]

I moved the DC in front of the garage door a couple weeks ago, however, I didn't run the overhead ducts until today--I need to cut some MDF. As you can see, the ceiling real estate is pretty crowded but it works. I still need to run another trunk for the tools on the new DC wall.

I need to fiddle with the vertical duct placement to the right of my TS. That's my router table but it doesn't get much use.

Paul

[capncarl]

Thoughts.... That's a lot of overhead space to keep warm.

The next time I find some smooth inside hose that fits snug over my 4" PVC piping in going to purchase enough of it that I can replace my ells with long gentle curved hose and hopefully cut out some of the loss.

[nwhomesteader]

I'm curious what makes everyone go with pvc over metal ducting. A 10' stick of 6" pvc is like $45. I went to an HVAC supply place and got all the stuff I needed to run ducting in my 24x48 shop for like $300. Pvc would have been way more $ and heavier.

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[atgcpaul]

I'm curious what makes everyone go with pvc over metal ducting. A 10' stick of 6" pvc is like $45. I went to an HVAC supply place and got all the stuff I needed to run ducting in my 24x48 shop for like $300. Pvc would have been way more $ and heavier.

I have not stepped up to 6". I'm using 4" sewer and drain pipe. The 10' pipe was $9.50. I realize DC is important but I just haven't gone "all in".

[nwhomesteader]

I'm with you there, I was struggling with the choice between pvc and metal when I was seeing and reading about everyone using pvc because it was "readily available" at home depot and lowes. But if you google hvac supply around you, these places sell to hvac contractors so they have all the metal duct fittings you can imagine. And for really cheap! 4" would be crazy cheap. I'd venture to say you could set up a 6" metal ducting run for the price of 4" pvc from home depot.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing what you're doing, you've gotta do what works for you. I just did a lot of pondering before I decided to run ducting. I went with the cheapest method I could find while still being really efficient. No way am I spending the kind of money norfab is asking.

I bought my 2hp Oneida cyclone dust collector used for $900. I took all the ducting the guy had with it but I didn't even think about the fact that most of it was 4". Which completely defeated the purpose of having a dust collector capable of pulling 1200cfm. You'll never get that much flow through 4" pipe. So I scraped the 4" with the exception of the blast gates to hook to my 4" output machines.

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