Sketchup of my shop - opinions wanted

[Cochese]

As I'm in panic mode over my Braves and can't go to bed, thought I'd mock up the shop trying to fit everything in there in a usable manner.

Here's the link of my proposal: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...3925bc00ecd646

A few things:
-The router table and dust separator (what the planer is sitting on) is on four swivel casters. The jointer has two swivel and two fixed casters. Everything else is currently stationary, but movable.

-There is a lumber rack above where the router table is now. The nice bench is what I'll be building by the end of the year. I also don't own the dust collector yet, trying to see if I have room (and electricity?)

-Other small stuff I need to account for: place to put my Kreg jig - thinking about the separator cart. Somewhere to store: detailing equipment in a cabinet (yet to be built), assorted gallon paint cans, a bunch of ply scrap, about two plastic bins at minimum.

If anyone can come up with a better layout, please advise.

[LCHIEN]

where's the table saw???

the miter saw you need to be able to get nearly 10 feet to at least one side and support on both sides for 4-5 feet.

[Cochese]

There's no 21829 model in Sketchup, so it gets rolled wherever and is the first thing to get rolled out.

The miter saw has as close to six feet as possible in either direction, and that's as good as it's going to get.

[toolguy1000]

if you're planning 6' in either direction of the miter saw, and it will be fixed re: it's position, i'd rethink that. i have a RAS in a fixed position with 6' to one side and although it addresses a lot of crosscuts, it's surprising how often i've needed more capacity. if i had 12' of space that could be dedicated to holding crosscut material, i'd position as much of it as possible to one side of the saw to accomodate those 8' or greater cuts that invariably come up during home improvement projects. just my $.02.

[Cochese]

Fair enough. That cabinet is built, but it can be moved. I have a removable fence with stops that spans the top of that cabinet, so obviously I'd have to shift the cabinet to the right on any wall. Doable.

I need to make that cabinet a component so I can move it around, right now it's just lines.

[LarryG]

Several comments, some of which may work for you. If any seem overly harsh, it's not intentional.

The more stuff on wheels, the better, obviously.

Your model shows a 12' square structure, but there's no outside wall thickness indicated. If the interior floor space is as you've drawn it, that's fine; but if not, you need to account for the walls as the typical ~4" thickness will reduce the actual usable space from 144SF to around 128. That's a 9% reduction, and in a structure this size, that's significant. And not only do you lose that much floor space, your walls are some 8" shorter than they appear to be.

+1 on the comments about shifting the miter saw. You'll likely be dealing with a lot of 8' lumber so try to get at least that much working room on the left side and let the right side fall where it may.

The workbench needs to be moved out of the corner and centered (or nearly so) on one of the walls, so you can get at least limited access to both ends. I'd also move the bench to the wall with the window, especially if the window faces north and will give you that nice flat north light on your work.

The drill press could be shifted closer to a corner. Maybe put your air compressor hard against the outside wall, then slide the DP over against it. This will give you a moderate amount of working room on the right, plenty of room on the left, and most of the wall space above and behind the compressor will be available for wall-hung storage of shallow stuff.

Lastly -- and this is the part that may seem harsh --unless you have extensive experience with the type of bench shown and simply prefer that type, I'd suggest replacing it with a simpler Roubo or Holtzapffel type (SketchUp models of both are available for download). The bench you have shown is about six feet long, which is adequate (seven or more is better), but it's also about three feet front to back at the left end, and you just don't have room for that. The shoulder vise structure will get in your way, and you will likely find the vise itself to be a lot less useful than you might think.

Either a Roubo bench (see pelligrini's, on this forum) or the generally similar Holtzapffel will be a LOT easier and cheaper to build, AND will have features that actually make the bench a lot more usable. If you've not already done so, read as much as you can of what Chris Schwarz has to say about workbench design (and he says a lot, having written two excellent books on the subject). He will really open your eyes and change your thinking about workbench design.

Oh, yeah, one more thing: bummer about the Braves.

[Cochese]

Several comments, some of which may work for you. If any seem overly harsh, it's not intentional.

The more stuff on wheels, the better, obviously.

Your model shows a 12' square structure, but there's no outside wall thickness indicated. If the interior floor space is as you've drawn it, that's fine; but if not, you need to account for the walls as the typical ~4" thickness will reduce the actual usable space from 144SF to around 128. That's a 9% reduction, and in a structure this size, that's significant. And not only do you lose that much floor space, your walls are some 8" shorter than they appear to be.

+1 on the comments about shifting the miter saw. You'll likely be dealing with a lot of 8' lumber so try to get at least that much working room on the left side and let the right side fall where it may.

The workbench needs to be moved out of the corner and centered (or nearly so) on one of the walls, so you can get at least limited access to both ends. I'd also move the bench to the wall with the window, especially if the window faces north and will give you that nice flat north light on your work.

The drill press could be shifted closer to a corner. Maybe put your air compressor hard against the outside wall, then slide the DP over against it. This will give you a moderate amount of working room on the right, plenty of room on the left, and most of the wall space above and behind the compressor will be available for wall-hung storage of shallow stuff.

Lastly -- and this is the part that may seem harsh --unless you have extensive experience with the type of bench shown and simply prefer that type, I'd suggest replacing it with a simpler Roubo or Holtzapffel type (SketchUp models of both are available for download). The bench you have shown is about six feet long, which is adequate (seven or more is better), but it's also about three feet front to back at the left end, and you just don't have room for that. The shoulder vise structure will get in your way, and you will likely find the vise itself to be a lot less useful than you might think.

Either a Roubo bench (see pelligrini's, on this forum) or the generally similar Holtzapffel will be a LOT easier and cheaper to build, AND will have features that actually make the bench a lot more usable. If you've not already done so, read as much as you can of what Chris Schwarz has to say about workbench design (and he says a lot, having written two excellent books on the subject). He will really open your eyes and change your thinking about workbench design.

Oh, yeah, one more thing: bummer about the Braves.

Not nearly as harsh as I was expecting. No worries.

First - the bench. I actually have been looking at the Holtzapffel all morning, and it's been one I've looked at extensively before. After I put that one in I realized that it wasn't the one I wanted, but couldn't remember the name. I'm familiar with Schwarz and have read his stuff, but haven't had a chance to read in-depth the famous workbench book of his (the first one, I think).

I think it is smaller than 12' in each direction, but haven't gotten an accurate measurement. Something I need to take into account, because I was putting that stuff in and wondering why it seemed I had so much more room. The height is unfortunately accurate, I only have about 7' of height. Which really stinks trying to store full length plywood.

I tried to reproduce what I have right now, but I couldn't upload it because it shattered the 10MB size limit. When I go out to get some accurate measurements, I'll take some pictures.

[pelligrini]

Larry has some really good points. Quite a few of them I have implimented in my shed. Having accurate measurements will help. My shed is 10'x12' to the exterior face of the studs. I really wish I had an extra 7" of floor space in both directions, especially width.

Centering the bench on that wall with the window would be a good idea. You're going to want room on both ends at times. Vices sticking off the ends can be a pain too. The 9" wilton I have mounted on the right end of my bench gets in the way a lot. It's not a quick release and I leave it half way open quite often. If I were to do mine again I would do a wagon type vice on the end.

[Cochese]

I went and measured and I get 11'8" from front to back and slightly less side to side, because the walls I have not remodeled were put up with stringers.

I've got some pictures of how things are set up now, mind the mess. I get messy at the very end of projects.

The bench I have now is 2x4, and just gets covered with crap. I would like a 5-6' real bench with dogs and a face and tail vices. Debating whether to do that or the dust separator first. The planer may go on a lower cart to fit under something if need be. I also neglected to mention I have the Ridgid EB4424 and would like spaces for the other smaller tools (Kreg, dovetail, WS2000).

[toolguy1000]

being sympathetic to your need to conserve space, have you seen this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ight=miter+saw

it also appeared in shopnotes magazine this past isuue or two. the beauty of it is that it multifunctions the bench as a miter saw station also. when not in use, the miter saw could be hung on a wall. HTH.

[LCHIEN]

along the lines of the station Toolguy1000's link described,
I made this miter station:
http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...=miter+station

you can see the original design had a central sliding t-track which I kept; I slotted the sliding base for the saw that can be positioned anywhere along the miterstation so you can cut varying sizes to the right or left as required. I made some other improvements including rollerstands, and stops.

Recently I made some new roller supports for it.

[Cochese]

being sympathetic to your need to conserve space, have you seen this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ight=miter+saw

it also appeared in shopnotes magazine this past isuue or two. the beauty of it is that it multifunctions the bench as a miter saw station also. when not in use, the miter saw could be hung on a wall. HTH.

Can't see the pics there.

I have a mobile miter saw station, but I ditched it in order to have a more permanent setup because I found I was using it all the time. Where it is (attached to that cabinet) can certainly change, but I want to be able to access it at all times. A mobile base with wings would work, but I think this takes up less space. Under, there is a mobile cart with cutoffs.

[Cochese]

Can't upload the new model, so here is a couple of pictures.

[LarryG]

Can't upload the new model, so here is a couple of pictures.

Much better.

Rotate the drill press 90 degrees. With the planer cart rolled out of the way, long workpieces can extend to the left while you operate the quill handle with your right hand.

[pelligrini]

Too bad the door isn't on the opposite wall. I have my bench and press like what you have laid out, but the door is in front of the press. If I need to extend to the left I'll pull the drill press cart forward and hang it out the door. I'll use the bench for supporting long pieces to the right with some clamped up scrapwood. Someday I'll make an adjustable support using a roller stand top.