Parts for dust collection system

[Iansaws]

I don't know why it seems so hard to put a dust collection system together. I have a Delta 50-760, 1.5 HP dust collector that I am trying to "semi-permanently" pipe to all my shop tools using 4" sewer and drain pipe. This is not an uncommon use or application, but trying to find adapters to fit the S&D pipe to a tools DC fitting, is like putting a puzzle together without all the pieces. Does anyone know of a source for fittings that are made just for this. I am finding that it takes 2 or 3, $6-$7 fittings to make on jump and that doesn't seem right to me. Somewhere there has to be a way to go from a 4" S & D pipe to a 2.5 in DC fitting on my band saw without using 5 different adapters at an average cost of $7 each. Can anyone help? I have been to Rockler, Woodcraft, Amazon and Harbor Freight, both on-line and in the stores themselves. I have lots and lots of useless (to me at least) adapters and have spent more money than I think should be necessary, but I still haven't been able to finish my system.

[dbhost]

Most folks use a short jumper of flex hose from the machine to the pipe, some use an adapter, some don't (depends on your hose). Rockler sells S&D to 4" ABS DC adapter fittings...

You can run your stuff hard piped, but a foot or so of flex hose goes a LONG way to absorbing vibration, and keeping your DC lines from separating and leaking...

[Hoakie]

I have found that the green pipe from Lowes (not by schedule 40 pvc) works well to reduce to standard dust collection fittings

"SDR35 PVC SEWER PIPE" ASTM D3034

bought a couple of sticks and cut them into 6" section and use them similar to the rockler reducers

[Iansaws]

Most folks use a short jumper of flex hose from the machine to the pipe, some use an adapter, some don't (depends on your hose). Rockler sells S&D to 4" ABS DC adapter fittings...

I have a few of these fittings already and they do fit the S&D pipe just fine...but then I have to step it down to 2.5" size, which requires another 2 adapters, then I have to attach it to flex hose which requires another adapter (that I can't find anywhere), then I have to put the same "hard to find" adapter on the other end of the 2.5" flex hose to fit the DC opening on the tool (like the back of the BT3100). That is 5 adapters at around $8 each for each machine. That is $40 in adapters alone per machine, not counting the flex hose. This is worst case scenario I know, but it gets expensive and I am hoping there is a better, more economical method that is so obvious that I am missing it.

[JR]

Here's what I have installed. The blast gate is installed into the S&D pipe, providing the transition to 4" flex hose. The 4" adapter at the tool is the one with offset 2.25" connector (not the one that has the 2.25" connector centered in the adapter).



Just for funsies this pic also shows that I repaired one of those cheesy plastic blast gates using 1/8" hardboard. Also the DC connection on the HF tool is slightly undersized, requiring a small dose of the handyman's best friend - DUCT TAPE!

It's always somethin'.

JR

[dbhost]

I just had to show you guys... 4" flex line does fit over 4" S&D. That is the 4" "Superflex" hose from PSI slipped over and clamped in place on a nipple of 4" S&D on a mount block. And yes it works WAY better than the OE undersized funky DC pickup thingamajig...

[jabe]

You can use a heat gun to soften the pvc pipe to stretch it over your fittings then tape the joints to prevent air leaks. So the pvc becomes a female and your fittings become a male. Pvc pipe when soften with heat can be stretched and when it cools it'll take the shape.

[Iansaws]

Dust collection woes

JR,
The offset adapter might actually work for my BS since the port is on the bottom of the tool and there is not any room on the underside of the port. My plan was to run 2.25" tubing from the tool DC port up to an elbow (a curved "Y" really) off the 4" s&d pipe that is running around the ceiling perimeter of the shop. In the middle of this I wanted to have a 2.25" "Y" that goes to a semi-rigid hose that will collect from the top of the BS table. I am thinking now that I should probably make the elbow 4" pipe as well and reduce it to 2.25" tubing from there to reduced the vacuum resistance. Of course I would have gates in there somewhere.

[dbhost]

Somebody help me with the youtube tag!

I posted a video to Youtube a while back showing how this is done... I am not sure how to embed youtube video here, on other sites it works, but for some reason the youtube tag here doesn't...

[Iansaws]

What to do now?

I posted a video to Youtube a while back showing how this is done... I am not sure how to embed youtube video here, on other sites it works, but for some reason the youtube tag here doesn't...

dbhost,

I just saw your video and thanks for the info. There are actually quite a lot of videos about wood shop dust collection on "youtube". More than I would have ever thought possible. I watched several and now am rethinking all my plans. I have heard some of this before, but I guess I choose to ignore the facts and suggestions. As of today, I have piped a small section of my shop with 4" s&d pipe along the top corner of an exterior wall with the idea of using 2.25" tubing for dropdowns for about 4 tools, a router table, a drill press, a bandsaw and a tool to be announced later. Off of this small section and aproximately in the middle of the shop long ways, I have "T'd" another section of 4' pipe to run 16 ft to the opposite wall and then down to a miter saw station. I will build a box to contain the dust from my miter saw and attach this 4" tubing to it. In the middle of this 16 ft piece I have installed another "T" just above the table saw for a overhead dust collection for the top of the saw (I also have duct running to the back and bottom of the saw which will run at the same time. The dust collector was going to remain insdie the shop.

After doing more intensive research however it seems that my plans are no good. Using plastic pipe is a fire hazard according to some and is imposible to effectively ground. Not using the same size tubing all through the system is bad as well and could contribute to a fire hazard. All the tubing should be 5" heavy metal pipe. Any first stage should not only be metal but have a metal lid too in case a fire starts there. Having elbows and "T's" is not good either because it increases resistance and decreases the DC's effective CFS. On top of all this, keeping the DC inside the shop will kill me one day for sure because even the 1 micron filter bag it came with doesn't really filter to 1 micron until it is "seasoned" and you need more filtration than that anyway.

So what do I do now? Should I scrap the inexpensive 4" PVC piping in favor of some very pricey 5" metal pipe or just roll the DC from machine to machine? My oringinal DC system design used a 5.5 HP Ridgid shop vac installed outside and 2.25" clear plastic tubes ducted to most it not all of the machines with 2.25" DC fittings. Perhaps I should consider incorporating that plan into the system and just using the DC for the TS, miter saw, sander, planer and jointer. I don't want to burn down my shop of course, but I can't really afford to go with all metal duct work either. Anymore suggestions. All work in my shop has been halted pending a resolution to the DC question and completion of its installation.

[JimD]

The only key change I would make to your original plans is to use 4 inch flex pipe instead of 2.5 inch. Flex pipe has a lot more resistance than straight pipe and the smaller it is the higher the resistance. So I only use it when absolutely necessary. I connect to my BT3100, for instance, with 4 inch flex pipe. I made a wooden (plywood) piece to connect to the 2.5 inch connection from the 4inch flex. It is part of my gate. Because the BT3100 port is so small, I Y'd the 4 inch and added additional suction under the saw. Works pretty well but I still have to flip it up and clean up occassionally (but it never gets to the point the saw won't work).

FWW has a piece in one of their shop issues on metal versus plastic. In a commercial system with really big DC and pipe, there have been a few incidents attributable to static. But there are no reported incidents in home shops. I believe this is a case of something being theoretically possible but not a practical issue. I use 4 inch S&D and I don't loose any sleep over it. I am more concerned about a spark from cutting a nail (potentially starting a fire) than I am static in my piping. That seemed to be FWWing bottom line too - not worth worrying about plastic DC piping.

You have more suction than I do, I have a 1hp Delta AP-400. I have 4 inch S&D running to my table saw, a pipe I switch between my bandsaw and jointer, my drill press, a pipe I switch between my radial arm and CMS, and my router table. I need to figure out a way to hook up my planner but haven't yet. My little DC does well with all except the jointer when planning wide boards (it has over 10 inch capacity) and my router table. So I use my shop vac on the fence port of the router table (with the DC pulling from the router compartment).

I would set it up like you are thinking but possibly with 2 4 inch D&C pipes instead of one. I think you have the suction but the way to find out is to try. I would slip the pipes together and tape them until you try it and find out if it works well. If your DC outlet is 5 inch, it would be worth finding a fitting to transition this to two 4 inch D&C pipe. If you get close, aluminum duct tape works pretty well to seal the joint.

I put gates close to the machines but I now think that it might have been better to put them as close to the DC as possible. Sometimes I kick a piece of flex pipe or something and then have to find the leak to get the DC to work. Gates on the wall at the DC wouldn not be a big deal because I don't use a remote switch so I have to walk over to it anyway.

Make your own wooden blast gates. They work better than plastic ones you can buy and it gives you a way to also incorporate pipe size changes (but sometimes that puts the gate at the tool too).

Jim

[LCHIEN]

you raise some real questions.
In terms of issues brought up,
1. 5" ducting would seem to be preferred over 4" for the 1.5 to 2 HP systems out there - but its really, really scarce. Six inches is actually too big. 5" could be approximated with dual 4" but the connections to the tools would be complex.
2. 1 micron filtering may not be absolutely perfect, but its so way much better than nothing. If you Aircondition or heat your shop you cannot afford to vent the DC outside - you won't have heat or A/C.
3. wide sweeping arcs and Wyes are way, way better than elbows and Tees for reducing pressure loss and resulting CFM loss.
4. I'd try to keep main lines at 4" and not neck down to 2.5 until you get to the tool. Better yet, split the 4" at the tool and either convert the tool to 4" port or make two 2.5 pickup ports and a "Y" to allow more air into the 4" line. Say one sucking at the given chassis port and the other pulling from the area right behind the blade.
5. Metal ducting is not required in my opinion. The static issue exists with PVC but is not hazardous - you should ground the metal chassis of machinery . A static discharge may occur but with all the metal items grounded the static buildup on plastic tubes and pipes connecting them is insufficient to ignite the sawdust*. The suspended sawdust is insufficient quantity to explosively ignite. the sawdust collected in the bag may catch fire but will not do so with static- you'll have to get a burning ember into the bag to do that - very difficult to do with a home power tools and metal pipes won't stop a burning ember any better than plastic.

*(basically the plastic pipe is non conductive so charge can only accumulate on the surface and can't travel. It would be hazardous if you had metal piping and it was insulated at the machinery ends. the metal being conductive can accumulate a large charge that will conduct and transport over its entire area unless it is grounded to conduct the charge to ground.)

Also consider 1 foot of flex hose is probably about as lossy as 10 feet of PVC pipe.

I think in your case some real good effective DC can still be done with 4" plastic S&D as you planned, but using wide turns and wyes. Or, you can continue to wheel your DC around. In either case, a 2.5" port really chokes the airflow and its dust gathering/carrying capacity... use two ports as I suggested, where possible.

[capncarl]

To get away from the dust problem completely I relocated my dust collector outside my shop. It was not a big move, just on the other side of the same wall. That got rid of a lot of dust! The last couple of weeks has been the coldest that it gets here, and of course I could not keep any heat in the building. Now the dust collector is back in the shop. The corner it is in will be framed in like a closet and fitted for pleated filters to contain the dust in that corner. You may also consider constructing or purchasing an air filter to help remove airborne dust.

capncarl

[Iansaws]

You all have some great suggestions and I am glad to hear they agree with some things I thought of already last night after writing my long description of my issues. First the idea of approximating 4" pipe with two 2.25 in pipes occurred to me regarding my band saw. Right now I have a 2.25" Y right in between the 4" pipe and the machine, but if I used a 4" Y and branched off of that with two 2.25" hoses (one going to the tool port and one going to the table top) that would give twice the flow. I could do the same with the drill press except it doesn't have a DC port at all. The router table has a 2.25" DC port on top and I could build an enclosure on the bottom with a 2.25" port as well. My BT3100 already has a bottom and a rear DC port that are already Y'd together with a 4" Y, so no problem there. My Hitachi planer has a 4" port built-in and I can add one to my 6" bench top Delta jointer. Not sure about my Hitachi sander as it is still in the box, but if I can make all this work I am sure I can make that work too. I found a design for a chop saw dust hood that I can make that should capture most of the dust from that tool too. Thanks to JimD and others, I am not too worried about the fire issue from a static spark anymore, but I do have a grounding system I could install just to be safe. Putting the DC outside would render my heating and AC useless as well, as was pointed out by Lchien, so not doing that. I already have a poor mans air-filter (a box fan with a furnace filter on the back). It is mounted right over my work area facing downward like a ceiling fan. That's as good as that's going to get for a while anyway, but good suggestion Capn. I have a much better handle on this now thanks to you guys. Thanks for all the input so far.

[Hoover]

This is one of the most informative posts on dust collection. Great thread!!