Shop wiring

[Bill in Buena Park]

Well done, Loring. There's a certain comfort in having ample energy for all your shop tools.

I remember my last garage shop, it also had a subpanel but with only two 20A breakers, and I was kicking breakers constantly, especially if I had a couple things on and started up my 12" HF disk sander running. I moved before I had a chance to upgrade.

My latest place was previously owned by a carpenter, who wired the shop with 5 circuits, four at 110v (all my tools are 110v) and one at 220v. (Also has a specially ventilated paint/thinner cabinet built in.)

Now if I could only figure out what to do with that 220v...

[LCHIEN]

...Now if I could only figure out what to do with that 220v...

3 HP cabinet saw.
or, a B.A. Dust collection system.

[poolhound]

2 If you want to change the breaker to 20A, then the wiring had better be at least 12-2, it should be stamped on the jacket. Or you can check the bare wire with a caliper to make sure it is 12 ga. If its only 14 ga., no can do.

I finally went up into the roof space above the garage and checked the wiring. The 2 double outlets and the socket for the door opener are all wired in the same circuit and all with 14ga. DANG!!!

[poolhound]

I had an electrician in yesterday to look over what I want and give me saome options. As my garage is the total opposite side of the house from the main panel whatever I do is going to mean some longh cable runs. Distance from one end to the other is at least 100ft without counting up and down walls. Also my main panel is full so will need some of the smaller circuits to double up with the dual breakers. we looked at two options.

1. running two new 12-2 20amp circuits direct from the panel. easier and cheaper ~$300 but all that will get me is somehwere to plug in 2 things at the same time. If I even need more I got to go back to the main panel again and run another 100ft plus line.

2. We looked at putting in a 50amp circuit run with 6ga from the main panel to a subpanel in the garage. That should give me plenty of power and I can then run as many circuits and outlets as I want within the garage. This would also mean I have 220v in there if I should need it. I cant imagine ever running more than 50A and could easily run 3 spearate 20A circuits in the garage and with the existing 15A one still there I should be set. Sticker price is more ~$540 but I should never have to touch it again.

Any thoughts out there - what would you do? I like the idea of $300 more than $500 but just hate to think that once I do it I would find I need another circuit.........

Its only money - right?

[LCHIEN]

...

Any thoughts out there - what would you do? I like the idea of $300 more than $500 but just hate to think that once I do it I would find I need another circuit.........

Its only money - right?

well, that's a toughie, depends how ambitious you are.
you already have one 15A circuit, $300 would get you 2 x 20A
and $540 would get you a lot more flexibility.

If you want a more or less full featured shop you need at least four circuits, five if you want AC or electric heat.
In the four circuits I count one tool (at a time), lighting and misc, Air compressor and dust collector. If I wanted to be able to do that them you almost have to have the more expensive option.

[BobSch]

I may be being too conservative here, but if I were running a 20A line over 100 feet, I'd consider using 10-2 instead of 12-2.

I'm going to be wiring my shop this year and I'm going to install a 60A panel. The extra flexibility is worth the extra $$, I think.

[poolhound]

If you want a more or less full featured shop you need at least four circuits, five if you want AC or electric heat.
In the four circuits I count one tool (at a time), lighting and misc, Air compressor and dust collector. If I wanted to be able to do that them you almost have to have the more expensive option.

Thats my gut feel too. if I had 3 20A circuits plus the existing 15A one I would be set. Running 3 individual circuits all the way from the main panel seems crazy when for what would be a few bucks more I could get the subpanel. I guess I need to mull that over - hmmmm........

[ironhat]

Go sub-panel and you'll never look back and wish otherwise. I did tis about 4 years ago and that window A/C unit sure is nice in the summer. But then again, yours is a drryyyy heat, right? LOL!

[rh111]

I would go the sub panel route for this situation. I had my an electrical friend over this weekend and discussed the same issues as well. Since it will take about 15' of additional wire to hit the main box, he said that he would forgo the sub panel for my situation (my main panel is in the basement right behind the garage). If my main panel was on the other side of the house, there would be no doubts in my mind to run a sub panel.

[poolhound]

As soon as I get back from Orlando I am going to get the electrician back in get the sub-panel option installed. It seems to be the one that makes most sense.

I then need to wire in the outlets around the garage. Going in pipe on the surface seems like the easier solution or am I wrong. I do not have exposed beams so if I wanted to run in the walls not sure how I would get the boxes attached to the studs without ripping off large chunks of plaster board.

Am I thinking about this wrong, is there another way?

[LCHIEN]

As soon as I get back from Orlando I am going to get the electrician back in get the sub-panel option installed. It seems to be the one that makes most sense.

I then need to wire in the outlets around the garage. Going in pipe on the surface seems like the easier solution or am I wrong. I do not have exposed beams so if I wanted to run in the walls not sure how I would get the boxes attached to the studs without ripping off large chunks of plaster board.

Am I thinking about this wrong, is there another way?

You might try and do a google search on surface wiring
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...wiring&spell=1

there's several products, notably Wiremold comes to mind, sold in Lowes evenm, I think, that have attractive metal raceways for putting wiring, outlets and switches on top of finished walls in a not too unattractive packaging.

The other option is if you have access to the attic above, you can drill holes in the top plates, drop the wire down the topplate and fish it out through a hole in the sheetrock, then use boxes designed to be mounted in existing sheetrock. I think this might be OK for one outlet but a lot of work for a whole garage-ful. Also makes me wonder if it meets code about having the wire supported to the framing within 12" of the box and every four or so feet.

[poolhound]

Also makes me wonder if it meets code about having the wire supported to the framing within 12" of the box and every four or so feet.

I was wondering about that also as you cant get access behind the sheetrock there is no way to fix the cable to the stud.

In HD they sell the grey PVC round conduit and fittings. I havent looked in lowes yet.

[poolhound]

Made my choice - they are comming in on Tuesday to wire in the 50A circuit and subpanel. Now I just need to get all the outlets in and maybe they will connect them into the panel when they put it in - FOC

I did ask them about both surface wiring and the "unsupported" issue. The fixing of the cable to the studs is not a requirement for new wiring inside an existing wall. It is when they do new builds as they put the wire in before the sheetrock goes up and the fixing of the cable to the inside face of the stud is to ensure that the sheetrock guys dont trap a cable when they are putting it up.

He also told me another way to do surface wiring. He said it is perfectly OK to use the MC (metal) shielded cable directly on the surface and connect to metal surface boxes with the cable stapled or clipped to the wall. Its not the most asthetic solution but is the easiest in his opinion. MC cable is a bit cheaper than the regular 12-2.

[poolhound]

One for the TS, overhead dropped down using one of those $10.49 extension cords with four outlets and green LEDs spaced every 8 feet.

Loring, I thought it was "frowned" upon to use cords? Is this just a shorty to save getting out a ladder every time you want to hook something up?

What GA did you use as I want to do the same thing. I about to go out and look but can you get one of those curly ones so it will add some strain relief just in case you snag the cable?

Also didnt you mention wiring in some extensions e.g. for moveable shopcart or bench using the same 12-2?

[LCHIEN]

Loring, I thought it was "frowned" upon to use cords? Is this just a shorty to save getting out a ladder every time you want to hook something up?

What GA did you use as I want to do the same thing. I about to go out and look but can you get one of those curly ones so it will add some strain relief just in case you snag the cable?

Also didnt you mention wiring in some extensions e.g. for moveable shopcart or bench using the same 12-2?

Nothing is ever totally bad or totally good. People who don't understand usually want a yes or no answer, though.

I chose to locate the power outlet near the center of my garage.
I can mount an outlet in the ceiling or I can set up a permanent pole attached to the floor (like a 2x4) and the ceiling and mount an outlet to that. That tends to be more permanent and inflexible.

So I chose the ceiling mounted one. Now the problem is do I want to plug the saw into the ceiling... would it be inconvenient to have to get a stepladder all the time.

So I want to use a flexible extension cord. At HD late last year they had these 24 foot, 12-3 ga yellow cords. It had four outlets, one every 8 feet including the end. So if the saw is on the first one, then its only like an 8-foot extension cord. Since its 12 gauge there's no more resistance than if I ran an extra few feet of romex down a permanent pole.

What's the objection to extension cords?
one, generally people use a max of 16 ga. extension cords like 25 feeet long, adding a fair amount of resistance compared to a minimal amount of 12 ga. in-wall wiring.
2, they add a bit of resistance at the plug.
3. they are a tripping hazard
4. when excess length is coild up and current flows in it, it can overheat

Since mine is overhead and 12 ga., none of these problems apply except #2 so I don't really think I have compromised much. The extra 3 outlets can power additional items in the center of the shop as I need them.

I'm not sure what else you were referring to. I think I said I might add some additional romex to one of the circuits for a convenience outlet farther down that wall.