Shop wiring

[JR]

Our clothes dryer is gas and that dedicated circuit needs to be re-routed.

Bing, bing, bing. That hadn't occured to me! Hmmm.....

JR

edit: sure enough, I have an idle 40 amp 220v circuit! That could really pump things up in the shop. And the main panel is just on the other side of the wall from my shop. Very interesting...

[poolhound]

probably take a couple of iterations before you arrive at a wire gauge number you can live with, then you pick the maximum or smaller breaker allowed for that line.

When you say "iterations" what do you mean - trail and error, or simply various combinations of equipment that may be on at the same time?

Havent even looked at the cost of the cable yet, I guess I should.

[LCHIEN]

When you say "iterations" what do you mean - trail and error, or simply various combinations of equipment that may be on at the same time?

Havent even looked at the cost of the cable yet, I guess I should.

Iteration #1 you're probably going to say something like, I want to be able to use 55 Amps. So you look up and there's a 60 Amp breaker that takes maybe #4 wire and you have to run 150 feet and say omigosh that's $300 and it takes so much conduit
so iteration #2 is what if I just accept 40Amps as my limit and see what breaker size (ok, 40) and wire it takes etc. and then adjust again (iteration #3) if need be.

Trial and error would infer you burned your house down. but you knew better for the next time.

[poolhound]

Iteration #1 you're probably going to say something like, I want to be able to use 55 Amps. So you look up and there's a 60 Amp breaker that takes maybe #4 wire and you have to run 150 feet and say omigosh that's $300 and it takes so much conduit
so iteration #2 is what if I just accept 40Amps as my limit and see what breaker size (ok, 40) and wire it takes etc. and then adjust again (iteration #3) if need be.

Ahhh I see - I am illuminated. subpanel >$20, breakers ~$20, CABLE $300!!! And for everything else theres Mastercard.

[chopnhack]

Curious FYI-I read that in the Chicago area, they just recently started approving using romex. Prior to this, ALL residential wiring had to be either BX or in conduit, even wiring inside walls. From what I understand, most sparkies in Chicago still distrust NM/Romex.[/QUOTE]

Same still applies in NY - must be BX - probably to prevent rats and other dangers. Not required down here, NM is aok.

[JSUPreston]

Loring, maybe I just had a bad experience, but when they finally finished my addition on the house, they used one of those breakers. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why my laundry room lights flickered constantly. Finally pulled the cover off the breaker panel, and that 2 breaker in one space unit was sparking like crazy. The landlord had electricians out the next day fixing it. Crazy thing was that we had space in the breaker box, just the original electrician was too lazy.

[codaman33]

I know the feel for everyone

I am fixing to redo my whole garag especially starting with the wiring. When they built my house, 1973, they hooked the garage up to the washing machine in the house. I have a detached garage. They only gave me a 20 amp circuit. Shop vac gets clogged, blowned fuss. Table saw gets bogged down, blown fuzz. The other problem is the circuit breaker is on the back of the house. I want to run a sub panel to the garage, but I hate to think about hiring an electrician for that, major expense. I know that I can run all of the wiring in my garage, but I am just curious what all of you think is the best, safest, quickest, and most economical way to get this done. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[poolhound]

So I have started iterating. I went to HD and actually found somebody in electrical that knew what they were talking about.

125ft of 8ga would be ~$100 and allow for 40-50amps to a sub panel. Another option although more limiting would be to run 2 new 20amp circuits direct from the main panel 12-2 wire is significantly cheaper.

The guy did then throw in the other option which would be to use 3 core and run 220 to a garage sub panel, then I would have the choice of 220 or 110 in there. all I can say right now is ARRRGGGGHHHH! I have opened a real can of worms here.

Time to go to bed and sleep on it

[atgcpaul]

I would like to add that I did this recently, too. And I made a mistake.

Get your shop layed out first, THEN get the wiring in. Even if it means moving 1000 pounds of stuff away from the walls. I am now in a situation where I wish I could move the wire a mere 2 inches to the right so I could slide something back against the wall. Oh well, one inch isn't a killer, but it's annoying after all that work!

Dude! I am glad I am not alone here! I thought everything was in its right place
until I moved everything back in place. Thank goodness for extension chords.

Paul

[rnelson0]

So I have started iterating. I went to HD and actually found somebody in electrical that knew what they were talking about.

I would be careful of this. I have found guys that speak with confidence but when talking to a master electrician later, it turned out nearly everything the first guy said was wrong. I'm not saying that the guy you talked to was wrong, but be careful! Also, learn about local code. In some places it's managed by the county, so things are fairly even. However, I've lived in places where each township or borough has their own code - a single county, but over 100 local code definitions to follow. Ugh!

Dude! I am glad I am not alone here! I thought everything was in its right place
until I moved everything back in place. Thank goodness for extension chords.

What screwed me up was that I planned to put the workbench about 10' to the right...but then my wife okayed the optimal location that I had wanted first and passed on due to lack of approval. Like you said, extension cords help, but now the conduit on the wall (finished basement requires a firewall with drywall on each side for the garage/basement barrier) protrudes a bit. I'll get over it, but man, if I had only known earlier...

[LarryG]

I know that one is never going to max out all circuits at the same time but what are the guidelines & code related to the relationship between the max rating and the total of the indiviudal circuits?

AFAIK there's no limit. I know that's the case with commercial; it's possible the residential section of the code is different but I don't think so. I can confirm this with our electrical consultant if you like, but really all that matters is the combined load at any given time.

[rnelson0]

Loring,

I am curious, did you build this up to code and get an inspection, or did you do it all yourself? I didn't get an inspection on mine, though I feel I would pass. The only reason I skipped on it was because it's difficult to get it scheduled to have someone come out and look at it....that and I wanted to use it right away

[pelligrini]

The guy did then throw in the other option which would be to use 3 core and run 220 to a garage sub panel, then I would have the choice of 220 or 110 in there. all I can say right now is ARRRGGGGHHHH! I have opened a real can of worms here.

That's what I plan on doing. It'll give me more flexibility in the future if I want to put in a window AC unit or big compressor. It would cost a little bit more up front, but I'm sure it will pay off in the long run.

Especially if I ever run across that elusive $50 cabinet saw, planer, dust collector, jointer, compressor from a disgruntled, seperated, future ex-wife deal. (one can dream, can't they?)

[LCHIEN]

Loring,

I am curious, did you build this up to code and get an inspection, or did you do it all yourself? I didn't get an inspection on mine, though I feel I would pass. The only reason I skipped on it was because it's difficult to get it scheduled to have someone come out and look at it....that and I wanted to use it right away

No, I followed basic rules, e.g. breaker size vs. wire size. And the spool of wire had basic code advice, like supporitng the wire. Other than that I followed the basic practices evident in the existing wiring so that it looks no different. I'm sure it would pass inspection.

I did notice a few places in the existing wiring that were close to not meeting code... but I elected to leave them as it was but not try to fix it.

[Schleeper]

I've been procrastinating about doing the same thing. My "shop" is in the basement, where I have four outlets that are inconveniently placed for use with my power tools, and they are on 3 circuits that are already overloaded. One of them was put in when we bought the house, by the electrician who installed our central vac, just so he'd have a place to plug it in. (Turns out, he added it to the same circuit as the dishwasher. We can wash dishes and vacuum the rugs, but not at the same time!) So I've got extension cords running all over the floor. I was reminded recently of just how bad an idea that is, when the sump pump quit during the last big rain storm, and we ended up with water all over the floor.

About 9 years before we bought the house, the previous owner changed over from electric heat to gas. A new circuit was put in to handle the power requirements of the new furnace, but the cable and breaker for the 125A circuit of the old furnace remains. I'm hoping that can be utilized to put a sub-panel in the basement. In any event, I'm committed to rectifying this wiring shortfall now (including adding more power in the garage,) because I'm due to start construction of cabinets soon for our kitchen remodel. To this point, I've been able to live with plugging and unplugging tools, and resetting the occasional tripped breaker. No more!