Hard Ducting For The HF 2HP DC

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Tom is right on here. Schedule 35 is much more adaptive than the white stuff. Fits real well over blast gates, both plastic and metal.

[ssmith1627]

We have the D2729 stuff here. S&D. It's not the schedule 40 stuff. Bill Pentz' site mentioned it and said what it was made of -- styrene also ? It's white but it's thinner walled than the schedule 40. There are a good many connection pieces as well but I could only find 45's, not 22.5's.

I wonder if that thinner walled stuff would collapse in with the higher end DC units -- like a 3-5 HP cyclone.

How hard is it to find 5" or 6" in this type of pipe ? Obviously can't just pick it up at HD or Lowes.

Steve

[Jeffrey Schronce]

We have the D2729 stuff here. S&D. It's not the schedule 40 stuff. Bill Pentz' site mentioned it and said what it was made of -- styrene also ? It's white but it's thinner walled than the schedule 40. There are a good many connection pieces as well but I could only find 45's, not 22.5's.

I wonder if that thinner walled stuff would collapse in with the higher end DC units -- like a 3-5 HP cyclone.

How hard is it to find 5" or 6" in this type of pipe ? Obviously can't just pick it up at HD or Lowes.

Steve

My local HD/Lowes has white S&D and Green S&D.
The green is the stuff that fit the DC fittins real well in my experience.

The thin walled S&D is fine for cyclone.

6" S&D is easy to find. However, costs for 6" S&D approach that of entry level metal so you have to compare costs/benefits.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I have always avoided Bill Pentz site due to the controversy and it's relatively unorganized structure. I started taking a look at it today and found this nugget :

"Unlike big industrial sites, most hobbyists should run the same sized ducting, fittings and hose right up to their machines. Don't do like many and run a 6" trunk line then come off with smaller duct or flex hose."

Huh? That is the exact opposite of what I have heard.

[LarryG]

I think what Pentz is saying there -- at least, this is how I've always interpreted it -- is that a commercial operation might have a main trunk that's truly massive, with a correspondingly large cyclone*** driving it, with reductions as required ... maybe to eight inches, maybe to six inches, but probably no smaller than that. For a small hobbyist shop, the floor plan dimensions and longest runs are small and short enough that 6" will suffice for everything.

(***There's a furniture manufacturing outfit in the industrial park here that has a cyclone that must stand thirty feet tall, with an intake that's about that many inches in diameter.)

[ironhat]

Per your last statement, Jeff, this stuff makes me nuts!!! It's like getting a second and third opinion from docs until you're told what you want to hear.

That aside, have opted for keeping my piping just off the floor, at the same level as the DC machine's inlet. My thinking was to reduce the effects of gravity and best use the available cfm of the HF unit. Granted, when I want to hook up to the TS it means a hose on the floor. Most everything else is along the wall so the hose hazard is a non-issue there. My biggest gripe with the setup is getting to the blast gates which, unlike a lot of what I've read, I have kept right at the the wye to the main trunk line so that there is less static load on the runs to the machines. I have opted to use a 3/4 x 3/4 piece of hickory (or whatever) to manage them. The engeneering boggles the mind - LOL.
FWIW,
Chiz

[Tom Miller]

I think what Pentz is saying there...

I think his main point, though, is that you have to have 6" dust ports (or equivalent) on your machines to do a good job of getting everything; because that's really the only way you can get the 800 cfm at the machine, which, again is what you need, according to Bill.

I believe he has re-engineered his machines to accomplish this, hasn't he? I'd check his site to corroborate this, but it always makes me soooo sleepy....

Regards,
Tom

[Tom Miller]

My biggest gripe with the setup is getting to the blast gates which, unlike a lot of what I've read, I have kept right at the the wye to the main trunk line so that there is less static load on the runs to the machines.

Yes, I've always heard you should keep gates nearest the main, for the reason you state. Sadly, I don't always do as I'm told. But I think my branch lines are pretty short that it shouldn't matter much.

Regards,
Tom

[big tim]

Here is a link to to help you with duct design. I don't think you gain anything by using 2, 45's over 1, 90 degree elbow.
http://www.oneida-air.com/design/ductguide.pdf

Tim

[Tom Miller]

I don't think you gain anything by using 2, 45's over 1, 90 degree elbow.

Right, not if the 45's and 90's are the "long sweep" design, like in these Oneida fittings. I think it's when your choices are limited to the abrupt turn 45's and 90's, like with PVC plumbing, that two 45's are better than a single 90. But even in the PVC, I've found long sweep 90's, which may be about a wash compared to two 45's.

Regards,
Tom

[ssmith1627]

Big Tim, that's a great link. Thanks for posting that. I had not seen that specific site before.

That says for small shops the "sweet spot" is a 5" diameter pipe. That's also the widest connection I can make with my HF DC so that may be the way to go for me.

My final solution may just be to get a cannister filter from Wynn for my HF unit, replace my 4" ducting with 5" and simply rearrange my ENTIRE shop to eliminate the longer runs that I thought I was ok with before. I think I can come up with a setup giving me no longer run than about 8 feet. And it gets my planer and jointer much closer to the DC.

Now I just need a week off work to put this all together !

Steve

[LCHIEN]

Big Tim, that's a great link. Thanks for posting that. I had not seen that specific site before.

That says for small shops the "sweet spot" is a 5" diameter pipe. That's also the widest connection I can make with my HF DC so that may be the way to go for me.

My final solution may just be to get a cannister filter from Wynn for my HF unit, replace my 4" ducting with 5" and simply rearrange my ENTIRE shop to eliminate the longer runs that I thought I was ok with before. I think I can come up with a setup giving me no longer run than about 8 feet. And it gets my planer and jointer much closer to the DC.

Now I just need a week off work to put this all together !

Steve

yeah, and good luck finding 5" pipe and fittings!

[Brian G]

You, Tom! I learned it by watching you!



Larry,

Tom gave you an excellent summary.

A link to how I copied Tom.

[LarryG]

yeah, and good luck finding 5" pipe and fittings!

Has anyone ever tried using 5" stove pipe?

A 5" x 60" length of the pipe is around six bucks, fittings are a few bucks apiece. A big potential upside of the fittings is that they're segmented, in four pieces IIRC, which would allow turns to be made at almost any desired angle.

The big potential downside of the fittings is that those segments allow lots of places for air to leak, although they could be sealed with duct tape or a thin bead of caulking. The ridges would also generate some turbulence, although far less than the typical corrugated hose.

Anyone, has anyone ever tried stove pipe, or have any thoughts on how well it'd work (or not)?

[LarryG]

I believe he has re-engineered his machines to accomplish this [6" dust ports], hasn't he?

Yes, I think so. Somewhere in all that verbiage he talks about the mental teeth-gnashing that most people will experience as they contemplate taking a hacksaw or cutting torch to a shiny new woodworking machine.

Thanks for setting me straight on the pipe and fittings. I went to Lowe's and Home Depot both last night, found both grades of pipe, found the styrene fittings. This grand scheme is starting to come together a little more clearly in my head ...