Should I buy a bed frame or make one?

[SARGE..g-47]

The 3/4" pine should be fine at her weight. The curly maple is better at 3/4" as it will hold a screw more firmly than the softer ponderosa pine. But.. as long as she is not racking the bed diagonally the pine should be no problem. Kids tend to jump up and down on beds but usually apply very little diagonal forces other than plopping down which isn't a biggie.

The reason I mentioned the hardware with the most screw holes is to boost the fact that a screw can work loose in softer woods. Several options.. you could just drill a couple of additional holes to apply screws.. you could glue another piece onto the inside of the rail at the ends only to laminate the 3/4" to 1".. etc. That would allow you to use longer screws in #8 or even #10 if you really want to bolster the connection. And I would definitely use sheet metal or any type screw with threads all the way to the head to give more bite. IMO.. in this case a wood screw (non threaded portion at top) is not the correct call for this application. Personally I use fully threaded screws anytime I use screws which isn't often but I want a full bite all the way.

So... bottom line is the pine should be fine. You can check the rail in a few months once in use to tell if the screws are working loose. If so.. you have options to bolster at that point. I cannot see over an hours labor even if you did have to modify on the fly due latter.

You should be good to go....

[cabinetman]

Making your own frame rails would be fairly easy. What you have to contend with is the leverage a tall headboard/foot board can exert. Using a long fastener like this would help. Being tapered, it tightens as the rails get installed.
.

[JimD]

I also like the mortise fasteners. If you have a plunge router, it is quite easy to make a jig and do the critical part of the mortise quickly and without much of an opportunity for error. I like them because they are both strong and they look good. You are not totally dependent on the screws for strength. The headboard and footboard look nice so you could extend this to full length when your child gets older and then the added strength of the mortised pieces may be more important.

My first choice for beds these days is a platform type with slats. I made the slats for my daughters bed, a full size, out of 3/4 baltic birch plywood. They are sturdy enough with 3 inch wide slats 1 inch apart. Dowels on a piece inside of the rail you see keep the slat spacing constant. My son's queen sized bed just has a platform of 3/4 plywood (screwed together to get a piece big enough). I don't love that but it is more solid than the slats and is what the plans called for (plans were from Woodsmith). Hardwood slats should have worked (but would cost more). To get the height right on my bed (queen size), I made a platform about 8 inches tall out of plywood. It is very rigid and not much heavier than my son's 3/4 plywood one. Both my son's and my platform rest on a ledger like my daughter's rails hang from on the inside of the rails. This ledger is a way to "beef up" a 3/4 softwood rail. You could even use a piece of 2x construction lumber (a 2x2 or a 2x4). My rails have been at least 1 inch thick hardwood a minimum of 6 inches wide (I prefer 7 or 8 but work with the boards I can find at a local supplier). But all my recent beds have been for two adults. A 3/4 pine rail should be OK if you put at least a 2x2 ledger on it to support the platform.

Jim

[tohellwithuga]

Thanks again for all the help, guys. I just went by Lowes, and it doesn't look like they carry any rail brackets, so I guess I will be ordering from Rockler.

So, based on your comments, I'm thinking about the mortise type brackets again. Would these be the best ones to use? If so, should I go ahead and go for the 6 x 5/8'' ones, or would the 4 x 5/8'' be good enough?

Heavy Duty Wrought Steel Bed Rail Fasteners

The ponderosa panels I have are 12" (more like 11 7/8") wide, and I was planning to rip one lengthwise, which would leave me a little shy of 6". So, the 6 x 5/8" brackets might be too large.

Or, should I scrap the ripping idea and just use 2 panels, and make them larger?

[SARGE..g-47]

Now that's the type I referred to originally. It depends on what width your rails are going to be. If you go narrow with them.. the 4 5/8" should be fine as the bed will only have to support a small child. Remember this type hardward will be shallow morticed (just enough so the plate is flush with the surface) into the foot-rail and head-board. The FB and HB on your existing will take either lenght and looks thick enough to take a long screw.

Now.. I want to caution you on the rail. If you use pine remember the screws will be attached into the end grain of the board. So.. you shold use as long of screws as you can. On a large size bed I will drill and cut a 3" deep mortise cavity... then plug the mortise and glue it with a piece of hardwood with the long grain showing. That way you eliminate end grain being counted on to secure the screw. The long grain will just hold a screw better.

With that said.. our current full sized bed I made two years ago using 1" x 8" wide rails (oak) (I like Jim D. like wide rails) is attached simply with 4 1/2" screws directly into the end grain and they have not moved. If you do attach directly to the end grain in the rail.. be sure to drill a pilot hole just a hair or so under the size of the screw to avoid any splitting of wood on the rail when you tighten them. Too large a pilot hole will loosen with rack and lose it's grip.

I know all this may sound complicated but... it really isn't. Just common sense for the most part that require more words to explain than action to execute. ha.. ha...

Good luck...

[tohellwithuga]

Ok, so, I had to think about what you meant by "drill and cut a 3" deep mortise cavity... then plug the mortise and glue it with a piece of hardwood with the long grain showing". That sounds like it would work, but I wonder, since my pine board is only 3/4" thick, am I really going to be able to mortise a 5/8" deep cavity?

I also found this article, and it looks like the guy used hardwood dowels where the screws were, to give the screws more to hold on to. What do you think about that idea?

http://http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/built/bed_frame.html

To help hold the screws in the end grain, I put some dowels through the bed rail so that the screws holding the bed rail clips actually have some cross-grain hardwood to thread into for a better grip. These are blind holes, so only visible from the mattress side when the bed is assembled

[SARGE..g-47]

Simply... that will work fine as it serves the same purpose as the larger hard-wood plugs I use with an exception. You are still screwing into end grain by using a dowel but.. the use of a hardwood dowel will give much better bite than soft-wood. If you have driven screws into both hardwood and softwood you know that. The long grain of the dowel is glued to long grain on the rail so absolutely no problem there.

I have never built a child's bed yet but.. I think the dowel idea will be fine. I personally prefer the plug on a larger bed evem though I only use hard-wood to build adult beds. For that matter for the weight you have to hold.. the original idea of the external fasteners with screws would probably be fine for a child's bed. So.. that option is still available and if you decide to use it.. I would just add some additional holes on the brackets to attach a few more screws per bracket to add some additional holding strenght.

No reason to over-think this with a young child's bed IMO...

[tohellwithuga]

Ok, so, I'm putting together a Rockler order. So far, I have (not necessarily related to this project):

59031 Router Guide Bushing Kit
Stock Status: In Stock SALE $19.99 (Reg. $39.99) $19.99

28597 6 x 5/8'' Heavy Duty Wrought Steel Bed Rail Fastener Set
Stock Status: In Stock $12.99 $12.99

** Still not sure between these and the 4" ones - haven't decided how tall I want the rails to be

60545 Rockler Web Clamp
Stock Status: In Stock SALE $6.99 (Reg. $12.99) $6.99

34771 3 1/2'' T-Slot Bolt
Stock Status: In Stock SALE $0.29 (Reg. $1.39) $2.90

38765 EZ-Clutch Quick Release System for Jorgensen 3700 Bar Clamps
Stock Status: In Stock SALE $0.99 (Reg. $2.49) $0.99
60% discount

---

Anything else I "need" from Rockler at this time? (or is anything in the above list junk or not worth the price?)

You guys have been an incredible help, btw, I really appreciate it.

Sarge, I will gladly buy you a beer (or your other favorite beverage) if we ever meet.

[tohellwithuga]

No reason to over-think this with a young child's bed IMO...

Actually, it's possible that this would one day be the bed in our guest bedroom, so I might as well do it the right way now...

[pelligrini]

34771 3 1/2'' T-Slot Bolt
Stock Status: In Stock SALE $0.29 (Reg. $1.39) $2.90 (or is anything in the above list junk or not worth the price?)

Careful with those 5/16 T-bolts. They don't fit Incra track if you have any.

[tohellwithuga]

Well, I just emptied my cart of everything except the rail brackets and went ahead and ordered them, since there's free shipping on every order right now anyway.

[tohellwithuga]

Ok, I suck with a chisel. Any tips on cutting the mortise without splitting out the thin pine in the corners? The rail brackets are 5/8" and the pine is only 3/4".

I think I may have to break out the curly maple (not sure how that would match up, though). Or just go get some thicker stuff.

[chopnhack]

softwoods like pine need a very sharp chisel. If you cant cut the whiskers off of your arm by just barely grazing the hairs, its not sharp enough for softwood. Pine is too soft and the grain will compress and tear before its slices cleanly.

[SARGE..g-47]

Ok, I suck with a chisel. Any tips on cutting the mortise without splitting out the thin pine in the corners? The rail brackets are 5/8" and the pine is only 3/4".

I think I may have to break out the curly maple (not sure how that would match up, though). Or just go get some thicker stuff.

And one of the reasons to go with 1".. but all is not lost. If you don't want to salvage the idea of the pine (or even if you do and go with maple), you have some options. Get two pieces of same width scrap and clamp a piece on each side. Clamp h*ll out of them. Then.. use and Exacta knife or similar and trace the outer line.

Place your chisel in the scored line and be sure the flat back is facing toward the ouside. Under no circumstance allow the bevel face to face out or you will guarantee a blow-out! Keep in mind you only have 1/16" excess on each side. Tap the chisel lightly all the way around to form a slightly deeper scoring groove. I believe the metal insert is 1/8" thick but you don't have to go that deep with the original scoring. Now.. take the chisel and place it diagonally between the scored outer peri-meter line.. Tap lightly to form X's on the inside.

Carefully work that waste wood out of the scored rectangle with a very sharp paring chisel. If you don't have a low angle paring chisel.. use the chisel you have and work it at as low and angle as you can to take out the waste. I would take about 1/16" or half of the 1/8" needed excavation on the initial waste removal. Then repeat the vertical taps to reach the required 1/8" depth or the other 1/16". Do the diagonal approach again and remove the waste.

Another option is to also clamp scrap on both sides and make an MDF template jig wtih the size of the opening you need. You can router out the waste with a pattern bearing and up-spiral bit or plunge straight bit.

The other option is to use the 1" maple but.. I would still clamp the scrap on the outside of the real piece to help support the outer stock even though you now have 3/32" to work with on each side.

Good luck...

[LCHIEN]

Thanks again for all the help, guys. I just went by Lowes, and it doesn't look like they carry any rail brackets, so I guess I will be ordering from Rockler.

So, based on your comments, I'm thinking about the mortise type brackets again. Would these be the best ones to use? If so, should I go ahead and go for the 6 x 5/8'' ones, or would the 4 x 5/8'' be good enough?

Heavy Duty Wrought Steel Bed Rail Fasteners

...?

I used those brackets from Rockler to make a bed for my daughter. Worked great. No-show, its the most elegant solution. I made a tweakable routing template with a side frame that I could clamp to the end of the rails. Practice with two pieces of scrap, four ends, in full dress rehearsal before doing the real ones. Remember you'll have to hold the router sideways to route due to the length of the rails but it worked perfectly. Used Maple. Pictures below.

Hint: When I got them, before installation, the connectors took some force to get mated with each other, then even harder to get apart being there's nothing to hold onto to. I used a file gently until they slid into each other with just a hint of friction and no slop. Now if you lift by the rail the headboard/footboard will come with it but bang gently on the footboard downwards it will fall off, when trying to disassemble. Normally of course, the weight on the rails holds everything locked together. Its now survived six or seven moves and re-assemblies and is still very solid. You can see in one pic there's a support I made to go under the rail to lift it and support it when disassembling.

IIRC, these are the 4" rail brackets on 1x6 maple (5.5" x 13/16ths) - should be fine for a twin or fullsize.