DC Assembly and J-Bolts

[jackellis]

I'm about to put my dust collector together. It's a 3 hp system that originally came with four filter bags. I'm modifying it to accept two Wynn canister filters and two clear plastic bags. Since the canisters are slightly smaller than the rings that house the outlet ports, I need a method for fastening the canister flange to a wooden donut that will in turn be attached to the ring.

Wynn furnished some turnbuckles but they are too long. I think J-bolts will be ideal for this application but ten of them will cost almost 20 bucks with shipping since I can't find them locally (only one hardware store in town and neither it nor the Borgs in Reno carry small ones).

I've also considered using (or perhaps misusing) toggle bolts to secure the flange to the donut, since the fastener doesn't have to resist large tension forces, but the toggle may not keep the canister from sliding around on the donut.

It also occurred to me that I could fabricate a small L-shaped part out of hardwood with a hole for a #10 or #12 machine screw to mimic the end of a J-bolt that might be strong enough.

I don't really want to drill the flange because it's pretty narrow and I'm concerned about damaging the filter itself or perhaps the seal inside the flange. Even at $20 for a half, dozen J-bolts are cheap compared with the cost of a new filter canister.

Before I pull the trigger at Bolt Depot (www.boltdepot.com), I thought I'd ask for ideas.

[LarryG]

Since the canisters are slightly smaller than the rings that house the outlet ports ... [snip]

Are the canisters small enough to fit inside the inlet rings on the DC and sit on the flanges/baffles that are within the rings? If so, you should be able to dispense with the wooden donuts and secure the canisters using turnbuckles as Wynn suggests. If the turnbuckles are too long, you could shorten the bolts so they will draw down more tightly.

These suggestions are based on how my Wynn filter mounts to my HF DC, which AFAIK is a fairly standard setup that works for most bag-type units. If there are unusual factors present with yours, some pictures to help visualize the problem would help.

[jackellis]

In my unit, the flange is at the bottom of the ring and below the inlet rather than above. No reasonable way to install the ring upside down, either. The middle part of the turnbuckles provided by Wynn is too long even with the bolts on either end screwed down as far as possible.

However, I might be able to attach the donut to the ring and then use longer turnbuckles that attach at the filter canister and the bottom of the ring flange.

Now that I think about it, another issue is how big the hole in the donut should be. As large as the inside diameter of the filter flange (~17.5 inches), or perhaps smaller (inside diameter of the sloped flange on the ring, or ~12 inches) so that most large debris falls rather than getting pushed up toward the paper filter? In that case, the canister flange has to be attached to the donut, not the ring.

Some photos:

Partially assembled unit.


Closeup of the ring, oriented in the same way it has to be installed.


There's no room in the shop for a separator.

[dbhost]

Some photos:

Partially assembled unit.


Closeup of the ring, oriented in the same way it has to be installed.


There's no room in the shop for a separator.

Wow, that's the first DC I have seen like that! Are you sure the rings aren't upside down?

I am guessing this is a Grizzly G1030, and if it is, then your rings are UPSIDE DOWN. The flange part goes UP not DOWN...

If you look at the manual on page 13 you can clearly see the ring / flange at the top position. This keeps debris from blowing in, and straight up into the filter. You can then use the turnbuckles Wynn sent you to attach the filters.

[LarryG]

Ah, yes, that IS different. My first thought was also to wonder whether the rings aren't upside down but presuming they came drilled for the attachment of the supporting arms, I guess that's unlikely. Another tell is that if the rings were flipped over, the supporting arms would be too short. Still might be worth investigating, though.

Setting the question of ring orientation aside, my gut-instinct solution to the problem would be to make a circular MDF donut with a diameter about 2" larger than the inlet ring (1" overhang all around), and an opening that matched the ID of the canister filter. The canister would attach to the donut with short turnbuckles that hooked into some eye bolts on the donut, and the donut would attach to the inlet ring with Stanley corner braces and thru-bolts.

But note that this would be my gut-instinct solution. I really don't know if it would be based on sound engineering.

[JR]

And on a slight tangent...

I'm about to put my dust collector together. It's a 3 hp system ...

YOU SUCK!!!

You may now return to your regular programming.

JR

[dbhost]

Ah, yes, that IS different. My first thought was also to wonder whether the rings aren't upside down but presuming they came drilled for the attachment of the supporting arms, I guess that's unlikely. Another tell is that if the rings were flipped over, the supporting arms would be too short. Still might be worth investigating, though.

If they are oriented correctly, my gut-instinct solution to the problem would be to make a circular MDF donut with a diameter about 2" larger than the inlet ring (1" overhang all around), and an opening that matched the ID of the canister filter. The canister would attach to the donut with short turnbuckles that hooked into some eye bolts on the donut, and the donut would attach to the inlet ring with Stanley corner braces and thru-bolts.

But note that this would be my gut-instinct solution. I really don't know if it would be based on sound engineering.

I hadn't thought of the support arms. I only see one bolted up there, it IS possible that both sides are drilled with matching holes, just more of them on the bottom. The top side should have holes for the support rod for the upper bag. Without closer pics of the setup, I still think it's upside down. He does mention no reasonable way to assemble it upside down though...

OP. What make / model DC is this?

[JR]

Jack, I can't tell if the inlet is positioned exactly half way up/down on the outer ring. If so, you could reverse the motor position, flip the rings, and voila. (?!?)

JR

[cgallery]

I agree w/ the others that you have to get those rings UP. Otherwise you're gonna be pumping a lot of debris right into your filters.

[dbhost]

If that is built that way, I would hope that it is a manufacturing defect and not a designed in feature... Check with the MFG to see if that is right. That design would restrict material from getting out of the cyclonic stream, and into the bag, instead forcing it up into the filter.

[LarryG]

Jack, I can't tell if the inlet is positioned exactly half way up/down on the outer ring. If so, you could reverse the motor position, flip the rings, and voila. (?!?)

Or possibly just move this ring to the other leg of the wye, turning it over in the process?

In the first picture, the inlet tube appears considerably offset toward the top of the ring. In the second picture, not so much. What I'm seeing in the first picture may be a trick of the perspective.

IAC I just looked at the parts lists every four-bag collector on Grizzly's web site. I don't know that this machine is a Grizzly, but in all of those parts diagrams the baffles are near the top of the ring; that is, the one shown here is mounted upside-down.

[jackellis]

Remember this system used four felt filter bags. I agree the design is poor but modifications that would put the ring flange on top are going to take time and may take skill I just don't have.

The trick for getting debris to fall is to slow the air stream as it enters the ring. I'm thinking I should make the donut hole the same diameter as the inner diameter of the flange and add a piece to the bottom of the donut that mimics the function of a neutral vane. That'll allow the air to slow down and minimize the turbulence that would result without a neutral vane.

To keep large pieces in the filter, I plan on attaching a piece of 1/4" mesh screen to the bottom of the donut.

[LCHIEN]

That ring is definately upside down to me. Every DC I've seen has the lnlet below the donut hole - that allows the air to circulate around the sides - the heavier material being pushed outwards an the lighter, smaller stuff inside.
The air exiting rushes vertically out the donut hole and takes the fines rotating near the center with it into the filter, dropping the bigger stuff into the bottom bag.


Putting 1/4" mesh over the donut hole will be a biggo mistake.
You are have 25 square feet (just guessing) of filter material to keep from pugging up but now filtering through about 1 square foot. I predict it will jam up completely with large chips when you have them.

[Garasaki]

(I'll eventually post pics of my setup)

I recently took one of those doughnuts out of my DC system. It was really quite easy, they are just sort of spot welded (lightly at that) on in about 8 or 10 places. Between a pair of tin snips (the metal is quite thin so it's easy to cut, but awkward since it's in the DC ring) and some elbow grease, it took about 10 minutes to get the doughnut out.

I had the ring installed in an awkward position - if you have them sitting on a workbench it'd probably take 5 minutes to remove both of them.

Just throwing that out there...maybe elimination of the doughnuts would help.

[jackellis]

Charlie,

I've diligently checked and double-checked, but I'd also misplaced the manual at one point while moving. When I get back to my shop Tuesday, I will check the directions and report back. With some luck, I should be able to post a scanned copy of the parts list that shows how it all goes together.