Hello all and considering the dark side

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  • poolhound
    Veteran Member
    • Mar 2006
    • 3195
    • Phoenix, AZ
    • BT3100

    #31
    Now appropriately covered.

    Click image for larger version

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    Jon

    Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
    ________________________________

    We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
    techzibits.com

    Comment

    • woodturner
      Veteran Member
      • Jun 2008
      • 2047
      • Western Pennsylvania
      • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

      #32
      Originally posted by poolhound

      good advice, I am going with the trailer and a couple of furniture dollies approach.
      The Uhaul 4x8 covered cargo trailers rent for around $15 and have a very low floor. They can also be tipped down to the back so the floor touches the ground, makes it like a ramp and easier to unload. That's how I usually move machinery.

      Ramps can also be useful unloading from a pickup, makes it easier to get the machine off the truck.

      With either options, straps are a good way to restrict movement and prevent catastrophes when unloading. Strap the piece securely with at least four straps, two in the pulling or offloading side and attached to something on that side, and two on the restraining or vehicle side. Loosen one strap on the vehicle side so there is maybe 2" of slack, then do the same with the other one on that side. Then tighten the straps on the offload side. Repeat this process and you can fairly easily "walk" it off the vehicle and down the ramp, without it falling off, the vehicle side straps will restrain it if it tries to move too far or fast.

      Reversing the process is also a good way to load a machine into a vehicle if you don't have lifting equipment available.
      --------------------------------------------------
      Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

      Comment

      • Wedic1
        Forum Newbie
        • May 2021
        • 5
        • USA
        • Bosch table saw GTS1031

        #33
        Very interesting!

        Comment

        • capncarl
          Veteran Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 3564
          • Leesburg Georgia USA
          • SawStop CTS

          #34
          I confirmed the Saw Stop argument today. I visited a friends wood shop today and run into one of his employees coming in the front door…… with his right hand bandaged up to his elbow that looked like a mummy. He explained that a kickback snatched his hand into the blade and the blade split his thumb to the knuckle. OUCH! I know the guy well enough we could discuss and laugh about his “learnings” There were no guards, splitters or riving knife on the saw ( Shop Fox ) because he was cutting small pieces. My friend didn’t seem too concerned about reprocussions but does agree that he sees a SawStop in his shop in the future. I thought to myself, if there is a future.

          I request that my reply doesn’t turn Poolhounds post into a series of safety lectures and rants, so if so inclined, please start another post!

          Comment

          • Carlos
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 1893
            • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

            #35
            Yeah, all of those stories just make me ask questions.

            1. How does a blade "snatch" a hand? I don't think it can.

            2. Were you pushing hard into the blade, and then covering up that mistake by claiming you were pulled into the blade?

            3. Did you have your hand in a bad position where it could fall in? (As in this case, no guards, small pieces, etc.)

            I still maintain that the Sawstop is just to prevent negligent injuries, not freak accidents. Like guns and cars, there are almost ZERO accidents, and mostly negligence. That said, of course we've all done something stupid and negligent, and got away with it.

            Comment

            • capncarl
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2007
              • 3564
              • Leesburg Georgia USA
              • SawStop CTS

              #36
              They did not tell me what caused the accident, I saw a bunch of drawer end pieces where they had been building 3 or 4” wide pigeon hole drawers. With no ideal way of feeding them through the tablesaw against a rip fence I’m guessing that he just held them down with his fingers and his thumb got in the way of the blade. Regardless, the medical bills and loss of wages far outweigh the cost of a SawStop if this was the case. I could just see this going bad for my friend, his employe being injured on equipment with no safety devices in place, and one of the “ONE CALL, THATS ALL” lawyers catch wind of it and he is out of business.

              Comment

              • Carlos
                Veteran Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 1893
                • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                #37
                The bottom line of these things is to use the right tool for the job. We all employ (or I hope we do) sleds and jigs to do things like this. I worry just a little that people will do more stupid stuff when they think they can't get hurt.

                Comment

                • capncarl
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 3564
                  • Leesburg Georgia USA
                  • SawStop CTS

                  #38
                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	844487Carlos, I agree, what I think I know about this accident, it could have been prevented by using a sled and clamping the piece. If the worker just held the piece on the sled, then his thumb could have been it the same place. In my shop I use the band saw to cut small pieces on a sled. I started to suggest using a band saw for some of the work, until I noticed that their band saw had grown since my last visit. I was almost scared to walk by this beast. ( photo is not of his saw but is a twin)

                  Comment

                  • Carlos
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 1893
                    • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                    #39
                    The bandsaw and my Incra sled with clamps are my answers to anything sketchy. I still have a definite fear of the TS which probably helps me keep my fingers. My fingers are probably never within 6" of the blade. Hard rule.

                    Comment

                    • capncarl
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 3564
                      • Leesburg Georgia USA
                      • SawStop CTS

                      #40
                      I don’t use my tablesaw as much as I use to, and use the band saw more than I use to. So far this year I’ve gone through 20 band saw blades, dulled to the point of not much use left, not broken at the weld or kinked. 2020 was twice that many. It is hard to justify replacing a perfectly good table saw for another table saw just for the safety function, but I find myself saying yes it is when I think of cutting off a finger or slicing one in half.

                      Comment

                      • Carlos
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 1893
                        • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                        #41
                        If I had to downsize, I'd have a BS, and no TS. The least used tool in my shop is the TS. I wish I had not fallen to the common "wisdom" that the TS is the crux of the shop.

                        This all said, the Sawstop offers so much goodness aside from its one safety feature.

                        Comment

                        • capncarl
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3564
                          • Leesburg Georgia USA
                          • SawStop CTS

                          #42
                          Now… if SawStop were to adapt their blade stop technology to a band saw I would definitely be in the market. Hopefully it wouldn’t be under the Festool brand and be stupidly crazy priced like a lot of their tools.

                          Comment

                          • Carlos
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 1893
                            • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                            #43
                            That seems much harder to do because the mass/kinetic energy is much higher. But I have to wonder...I feel like the BS is the least dangerous tool in the shop...you think otherwise? I mean, I think it's safer than even my big sander. Seems "impossible" to get hurt on it without being super stupid.

                            Comment

                            • capncarl
                              Veteran Member
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 3564
                              • Leesburg Georgia USA
                              • SawStop CTS

                              #44
                              I have a large dose of respect for the band saw. When I use it to carve my tiny trees I have the top blade guide raises high, usually 6-8”, there is a lot of blade showing. I have to be totally focused on what I am doing and where my fingers are at all times. The never get within 6” of the moving blade, but that is a lot of blade showing.
                              As for stopping the blade like SawStop does, a simular blade grabber SS and release the blade tension at the same time should stop the blade instantly.

                              A 7 yr old WWGOA accident reported number of accidents / yr table saw 39,759 , jointer/planer 10,920, miter saw 6,800, band saw 3,550, radial arm saw 350.

                              I would have guessed that the band saw was higher on the list.

                              Comment

                              • poolhound
                                Veteran Member
                                • Mar 2006
                                • 3195
                                • Phoenix, AZ
                                • BT3100

                                #45
                                I have to say that my BS is still the scariest tool in my shop. My recent upgrade to the SS was more about getting a great "forever" saw than specifically for the safety aspect. When looking at the options I was lucky enough to have the extra $$ so went SS and it is a great saw. As long as you use any guard/riving knife that comes with a TS along with proper practices you should stay safe and the guard should help with an occasional loss of attention. All the videos I see with guys using TS with no guard give me the willies.

                                The challenge with the BS is its darn near impossible to create any guard that wont interfere with the actual use of the saw. I always keep a mantra going in my head when using it (keep your hands away) and no doubt it would make a mess of your fingers if you got in a fight with the blade!!

                                Carlos on your other point, I have always had the hardest time setting up my BS. This tends to result on me using it mostly for freehand curves or non critical cuts. The idea of using it for anything even approaching accurate rips seems impossible to me. I know it can be done but rarely on my saw. I am still in shop reorg and tool tune up stage and know I need some new roller bearings for the BS so when I get them maybe you might want to come over hand help me get it tuned and "singing" perfectly!! Payment in beer, Tequila or whiskey!
                                Jon

                                Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
                                ________________________________

                                We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
                                techzibits.com

                                Comment

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