So how do I know when I need a new blade?

[JonW]

So I ordered the LU88 from Amazon. They sent me an LU74 instead. I sent it back. They sent a replacement. But it was an LU86. So I'm now sending the LU86 back. However they now say that their problem seems to be widespread, given that in 2 tries they did not send me the right item. And they will just give me a refund and not try and send another blade. So I won't have my blade. The LU88 seems to be significantly more expensive elsewhere. Hmmm... not sure what I'll do next.

[Knottscott]

So I ordered the LU88 from Amazon. They sent me an LU74 instead. I sent it back. They sent a replacement. But it was an LU86. So I'm now sending the LU86 back. However they now say that their problem seems to be widespread, given that in 2 tries they did not send me the right item. And they will just give me a refund and not try and send another blade. So I won't have my blade. The LU88 seems to be significantly more expensive elsewhere. Hmmm... not sure what I'll do next.

Wow, that's tough luck! The LU86 is pretty good. It doesn't cut quite as cleanly as the LU88 but it'll handle thicker stuff a bit easier. You might consider keeping the LU86 and having them refund the difference if you're not confident they can get you an LU88. You might even suggest that they just let you keep it as compensation for the trouble they caused!

I had a gift card and just ordered an LU87 yesterday...I'll let you know if an LU88 shows up instead!

[cgallery]

However they now say that their problem seems to be widespread, given that in 2 tries they did not send me the right item. And they will just give me a refund and not try and send another blade.

Man, they give up easily. I think they should have a swat team at the warehouses to iron problems like this out.

[JonW]

Hi Guys,

Man, they give up easily. I think they should have a swat team at the warehouses to iron problems like this out.

You know, that's what I thought- they could just check into it. But the customer service people said that they don't have sway over the shipping people. It's in a different location and all.

I can't complain too much. Heck, all those blades look so similar if you're just in a warehouse putting things in boxes. They're all round, the same size and weight, red, they have teeth, they say Freud.

Wow, that's tough luck! The LU86 is pretty good. It doesn't cut quite as cleanly as the LU88 but it'll handle thicker stuff a bit easier. You might consider keeping the LU86 and having them refund the difference if you're not confident they can get you an LU88. You might even suggest that they just let you keep it as compensation for the trouble they caused!

I had a gift card and just ordered an LU87 yesterday...I'll let you know if an LU88 shows up instead!

I actually thought about just keeping the LU86. But once I reported the problem they wanted me to ship it back, so I did. I have to say Amazon's customer service has been quite good. They've paid for shipping both times I returned the blades. And from when I logged in to report the problem, both times, it could not have been more than 1/2 an hour before I had a response. Try finding customer service like that elsewhere these days.

Yes, you've got to post which blade you actually receive.



OK, so the question is what to do about ordering a blade now? An LU88, with shipping, will be probably over $60 anywhere else. And, to be honest, I don't mind spending even $80-100 for a blade if I knew that it's really good and will last me a while. The only restriction is that I want one general purpose blade. I don't want to change blades for different jobs. Mostly I use baltic birch ply for building speaker cabinets. But I hope to soon move toward working with real wood, maple, cherry, etc. So what blade and from where should I order it?

[Knottscott]

...OK, so the question is what to do about ordering a blade now? An LU88, with shipping, will be probably over $60 anywhere else. And, to be honest, I don't mind spending even $80-100 for a blade if I knew that it's really good and will last me a while. The only restriction is that I want one general purpose blade. I don't want to change blades for different jobs. Mostly I use baltic birch ply for building speaker cabinets. But I hope to soon move toward working with real wood, maple, cherry, etc. So what blade and from where should I order it?

Well, there's always the standard crowd favorite WWII...on sale from "Amazon" for $84. Or, Holbren's got the Ridge Carbide TS2000 in both full or TK for ~ $80 shipped with "BT310" code....it's every bit the equal of the WWII and has bigger teeth. Those are 40T GP blades that'll do a fine job in most things....not quite as clean as the 60T LU88, but'll handle thicker material easier. If you're into full kerf 40T blades, the Infinity Super General 010-044 has a Hi-ATB grind that'll excel at most of what you do, but won't hog through thicker stuff as easily....it's very similar to the new Freud P410 Fusion. $100.

Infinity's got a blade that I've been chomping at the bit to try. It's a 60 tooth TS/RAS blade with a 5° positive hook, and a 30° Hi-ATB bevel. It's essentially a "thicker" thin kerf @ 0.104". $60 on sale. I haven't tried it or heard from anyone who has, but the parameters look really interesting to me...I've always wondered what the LU88 would be like if I had a Hi-ATB grind put on it, and I think this will be just that but with a lower hook angle.

[LCHIEN]

What ever happened to English? Was that a World War II blade? What is a ATB? Give me a break I'm old and slow..

George Cole

WWII refers to a Forrest Mfg Co. WoodWorker II, 40-tooth 10" blade that's highly rated, kind of a cadillac of blades.

ATB refers to the tooth arrangement, in this case alternate top bevel where every other tooth is slants to the right or left (not flat topped as in a FTG tooth arrangement) the sharp points this arrangement has cause a slicing effect at the point of cut to reduce tearout on fine laminates to make for a theoretically cleaner cut line.

if you email me my FAQ (frequently asked questions) has all the frequently used BT3Central/woodworking/internet acronyms used on this forum. Look below my tag line.

[JonW]

Thanks again for the insights. Dustmight, you sure are Mr. Sawblade.

Awww heck, maybe I’ll just go for a WWII. I’ve read so many positive things about them, when searching for info on blades here. So the 40 or 30 tooth versions? I gather the 30 tooth thin kerf one would be the better general purpose option on a BT3100. $72 isn’t bad if it will last a good while. I think it’s this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW1030...4330137&sr=1-1


And the 40 tooth thin kerf version would be OK, too:

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW1040...4330175&sr=1-2


Maybe I’ll go WWII 30 tooth unless anyone thinks I should do otherwise. And if I can gt the correct blade sent from Amazon.

[Knottscott]

Thanks again for the insights. Dustmight, you sure are Mr. Sawblade.

Awww heck, maybe I’ll just go for a WWII. I’ve read so many positive things about them, when searching for info on blades here. So the 40 or 30 tooth versions? I gather the 30 tooth thin kerf one would be the better general purpose option on a BT3100. $72 isn’t bad if it will last a good while. I think it’s this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW1030...4330137&sr=1-1


And the 40 tooth thin kerf version would be OK, too:

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW1040...4330175&sr=1-2


Maybe I’ll go WWII 30 tooth unless anyone thinks I should do otherwise. And if I can gt the correct blade sent from Amazon.

Hi Jon - The 30T WWII is one of my favorites for typical hardwood use and would be likely candidate if I could only have one blade, but if you think in terms of the range that a general purpose blade operates, the 30T WWII's strengths fall in the "thick ripping" end of things....a bit at the opposite end of the spectrum of the LU88. Even though the LU88 is listed as a crosscut blade, it operates quite well in the "clean cut/plywood/thinner ripping" end of the general purpose range. The 30T will come close to ripping as easily as a 24T blade but leaves a much cleaner cut, and it'll come close to crosscutting as well as the 40T, but is more prone to tearout in fine plywood and crosscuts. I find it's cut is more than suitable for most of whay I do, but it doesn't necessarily sound like a perfect fit for your applications...especially if the LU88 was. The 40T TS2000 or WWII will come closer to the clean crosscut ability of the LU88 than the 30T WWII, but we're talking about some fairly minor differences either way.

Does that help or confuse?

[SARGE..g-47]

Ditt6 Dustmight, Jon. If you go with one blade for general purpose and do a lot of cross-cuts and plywood.. I would follow his advice and to 40 T. If you do a lot of ripping with some cross-cuts and little ply, his reccomendation of 30 T would be the better choice for one blade.

There was a discussion on another forum recently about the WW II having teeth come off on a new blade. Several chimed in that it happened to them also which surprised me. Even though the manufacturer replaced the blade.. that shouldn't happen on a top quality blade as often as I now suspect from that discussion and has put some doubts in my mind about their quality control.

I think everyone has a tendency to jump on Freud and Forrest as they advertise heavily and are tauted by people that haven't tried a lot of different brands. Most of the industrial manufacturer don't spend a ton advertising as they do.

But... there are as good or better blades for less when you mix up your menu to include the industrial companies that produce and don't advertise much to the general WW as cabinet shops already know who they are and they get repeat business as those brands are sold by saw sharpening shops to professionals.

I wouldn't over-look those guys who make excellent blades that can be re-sharpened many times due to having large carbide teeth. FS.. Amana (not the AGE).. Ridge.. Tenyru.. Infinity.. etc. etc.. Dustmight can tell you who they are as he lives and breathes blades.

If I were going with one blade (which I won't as my flow is a bit different from yours from your statements), I would highly consider the Ridge in a Thin Kerf if they make one in thin. On a BT3 the thin would be the best choice with it's power limitations. Plenty of power up to say 5/4.. but is a bit taxed beyond that.

Just fuel for thought in lieu of just jumping on the house-hold names you know because you have heard of them.

Good luck...

[JonW]

Thanks once again. You guys are great.

Does that help or confuse?

Actually that does help. And I appreciate your enthusiasm for this topic. It makes picking a blade much more fun. So go 40 tooth. WWII or Ridge. And Sarge agrees with 40 tooth. No problem.

There was a discussion on another forum recently about the WW II having teeth come off on a new blade.

Now *that* is something to be concerned about. Even the remote possibility of a tooth coming flying off the saw... E gad! So let's take the WWII out of the picture.

OK then, gentlemen. A Ridge 40 tooth, thin kerf blade sounds like a good way for me to go. This one here:
http://www.holbren.com/product.php?p...9&cat=0&page=1

Thanks again for all the help.

[Knottscott]

....OK then, gentlemen. A Ridge 40 tooth, thin kerf blade sounds like a good way for me to go. This one here:
http://www.holbren.com/product.php?p...9&cat=0&page=1

Thanks again for all the help.

I was afraid of that... now there's another problem...you might soil yerself over that one!

(Amazing blade and Brian's great to deal with too)

[LinuxRandal]

What ever happened to English? Was that a World War II blade? What is a ATB? Give me a break I'm old and slow..

George Cole

英語どうなったのですか？以来我々民族の言語を持っていない、それは多くの1つここで話さ！

Maybe Hank will see this one!

There was a discussion on another forum recently about the WW II having teeth come off on a new blade. Several chimed in that it happened to them also which surprised me. Even though the manufacturer replaced the blade.. that shouldn't happen on a top quality blade as often as I now suspect from that discussion and has put some doubts in my mind about their quality control.


Good luck...

In the last couple of years, it was on some forum that I read multiple people having problems with a batch of Forrest blades. It turned out that they had a batch that wasn't completed (supposed to be one of their custom grinds) that someone had picked up, in place of some finished blades, and sent them all out (they were still looking).
So one blade I would call a fluke, more then one and I would start to look at other brands. Everyone/every company has bad days.

And yes, there are other inexpensive blade choices (and more expensive) that one would be happy with.

[SARGE..g-47]

"So one blade I would call a fluke, more then one and I would start to look at other brands. Everyone/every company has bad days'.. LR

And I agree with you LR. Frankly I was not shocked when I saw someone post of what apparently was a bad braze on a brand that is most definitely owned and tauted by many. I was shocked when several chimed in they had the same problem.

If they came from the same batch.. that would be one thing. But two of them were by posters that stated they had purchased the blade such and such and would not have come from that batch over a two year span. And of course there are a ton of Forrest WW II's out there that have not had the problem and it is a good blade from all that has been said about it.

Quality control should be quality control regardless of the end pricing, IMO. I have a cheap $9 (at the time) Oldham 60 T carbide tipped circular saw blade I use on a PC circular. I also use it to cut down shop cabinets to a different heights and other junk cuts.

That cheap blade is still going strong after 6 years waiting for it's back-up. I purchased two at that time thinking it wouldn't last long. The current blade has encountered and cut through 2 nails and 4 steel screws. Not missing teeth.. a slight nick on one but not really cracked.

If I purchase a $100 blade.. I would expect it to be quality controled. If I purchase a $10 blade I expect it to be quality controled. Regardless of the price a manufacturer has the responsibility of insuring a safe product when he puts in on the market for consumption by the public, IMO.

Again.. nothing against Forrest as they have an over-all great track record and customer service. But.. the incidents mentioned just alerted me to the fact that somebody made a mistake and perhaps that happened more than it should happen as the first incident should have the been the "wake-up call" to take action IMO.

Just my thoughs which don't mean much except to me.. and yep, the Forrest is an excellent blade over-all as track record says so.

[JonW]

If I purchase a $100 blade.. I would expect it to be quality controled. If I purchase a $10 blade I expect it to be quality controled. Regardless of the price a manufacturer has the responsibility of insuring a safe product when he puts in on the market for consumption by the public, IMO.

Your expectations are, I think, quite fair. But higher than mine. Customer service and such have really declined in the past 5-10 years. But I must admit that Amazon exceeded my expectations with how they handled this wrong blade issue. I have never had to really deal with them- all prior orders worked smoothly. And they handled this one really quite well. If only all other companies were as good...

I was afraid of that... now there's another problem...you might soil yerself over that one!

(Amazing blade and Brian's great to deal with too)

Well, it's a chance I'm just going to have to take. The order is now placed.



I probably won't put the blade on the saw right away. I'm in the middle of a project using the BT3100 to cut some pretty tricky (for me) angles and such. I don't want to change anything on the saw mid-stream. When that's done, I'll install the blade.

[LCHIEN]

:
Originally Posted by SARGE..g-47 View Post
If I purchase a $100 blade.. I would expect it to be quality controled. If I purchase a $10 blade I expect it to be quality controled. Regardless of the price a manufacturer has the responsibility of insuring a safe product when he puts in on the market for consumption by the public, IMO.

Your expectations are, I think, quite fair. But higher than mine. Customer service and such have really declined in the past 5-10 years. But I must admit that Amazon exceeded my expectations with how they handled this wrong blade issue. I have never had to really deal with them- all prior orders worked smoothly. And they handled this one really quite well. If only all other companies were as good...

I might point out that quality control and customer service are and should be two completely different things.

Also a single procedural error that allows 100 blades to go out the door unfinished, vs. random quality control errors that cause 10 blades to throw carbide a year, I'd rather go with the co. that had 100 bad blades... it was a single error vs. 10 separate error.