So how do I know when I need a new blade?

[JonW]

I might point out that quality control and customer service are and should be two completely different things.

Also a single procedural error that allows 100 blades to go out the door unfinished, vs. random quality control errors that cause 10 blades to throw carbide a year, I'd rather go with the co. that had 100 bad blades... it was a single error vs. 10 separate error.

Loring,

I agree 100%. I guess I was thinking about both customer service and the recent group of poor quality products reaching market we've been hearing more about in the past year or so. Like the bad heparin (a drug) from China, that was on the front pages of newspapers just this week. People died from that one. These bad products, decreasing customer service... It could just be that I'm getting older and crabbier.

-Jon

[SARGE..g-47]

Loring,

I agree 100%. I guess I was thinking about both customer service and the recent group of poor quality products reaching market we've been hearing more about in the past year or so. Like the bad heparin (a drug) from China, that was on the front pages of newspapers just this week. People died from that one. These bad products, decreasing customer service... It could just be that I'm getting older and crabbier.

-Jon

At this point Jon... I wish I hadn't brought up the subject. To clarify.. I have always thought the Forrest blade was excellent as I'm sure it is. This was just 4-5 posters mentioning the problem and the occurances ranged over a 2-3 year span.

How many more are out there that had the problem? Many or maybe no more as I just don't know? It just planted a seed of doubt in my mind about the quality control issue. In the case I mentioned.. the tooth just fell off the saw blade on the first cut. That bad of an error could be dangerous and IMO brazes should have been checked. Brazes hold the teeth on.

Forrest is not running an assembly line. Just a small group practically hand making each blade. If I work on your brakes I know the procedure to re-assemble them. If I get sloppy and don't do it by the numbers.. you and your family are at risk because I got sloppy on a simple procedure and you trusted me paying a premium price to have it done right.

I expect to not have a good as blade with an Oldham for the price I pay for it. The carbide will be inferior grade.. the plate will not be as precisely tensioned.. the brazing might be a tad sloppy looking. But.. I do expect them to follow the numbers of assembly and be sure the blade is run-worthy before I get it. I have never had an Oldham or other cheap blade lose a tooth period.

If I pay $100 for a blade I expect to get more blade... but I also expect the procedures that go into putting that blade together to be done by the numbers so I get a blade that doesn't come apart under normal use. If I don't get that for $100.. just what am I getting that cost that much more.

Again.. it may be a very isolated now and then.. an again it may be more frequent as none of us will probably know for sure. I just don't know?

[JonW]

Hi Sarge,

No worries! I think I understood exactly what you were saying- Forrest is generally good but there was an incident. And so that brought my thinking to where yours seems to be: There are lots of good blades to choose from out there. With that seed of doubt I might as well go with another one. Which isn't to say Forrest is bad. No compromise there at all so it’s an easy call.

I do my own brakes. But I’m still getting older and crabbier.

-Jon

[JonW]

So on the topic of saw blades...

I just got a new circular saw (Makita 5008MGA) and used it for the first time this weekend. I’m in the middle of building some speaker cabinets. This was trying my first attempt at cutting facets. It’s just in scrap ply, 3 layers, glued together, as a test for when I get to the final cabinets. The saw cut through all 3 layers at 45 degrees quite easily. Almost like butter. The new blade has to be part of it.

Let's see if I can include a photo...

[BigguyZ]

Jon- that is slick. What system is that? I have yet to complete my Audax speaker set, but I've recently been getting the hankering to do another.

Speakers are, after all, what got me into WWing in the first place!

[Knottscott]

Very sharp looking cabinet Jon. Reminds of the Avalon's we used at a CES show many moons ago. What drivers are you using, and what crossover configuration?

Avalon's:

[JonW]

Jon- that is slick. What system is that? I have yet to complete my Audax speaker set, but I've recently been getting the hankering to do another.

Speakers are, after all, what got me into WWing in the first place!

Thanks Big Guy. Yeah speakers are mostly what got me into woodworking. Or, at least, it provided the excuse to start. I've wanted to try it out for many years. Now I have the space- but not enough time!

So the speaker is actually my own design that I'm still working on. If you want some "light" (ahem) reading it's all detailed here:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=25031

[JonW]

Very sharp looking cabinet Jon. Reminds of the Avalon's we used at a CES show many moons ago. What drivers are you using, and what crossover configuration?

Avalon's:
[ATTACH]8835[/ATTACH]

Thanks Dustmight. So are you "in the biz" if you were showing things at CES?

This is my first speaker design. And I wanted to make as high end of a design as possible. It's a 2 way. Other than that, I'm going all out. The drivers are both Scanspeak: A 6600 tweeter and an 18W/8531 woofer. The crossover design is still in a little flux, but currently it's 3rd order on both drivers.

Yeah, they're turning out to look much like the Avalons. Not that I necessarily wanted to mimic Avalon or anything. I built a lot of test boxes and took lots of measurements. The measurements in various configurations are mostly in pages 10 and 11 of this thread:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...1&page=1&pp=35

The facets really smoothed out the frequency response. As well the 8 degree slant of the front baffle helped a lot, too. So that's how I'm building the final cabinets. A bit of a woodworking challenge for a new guy like me.

When the cabinets are done I'll remeasure things, tweak the crossover a bit, and then tweak a little from lots of listening. Even in the flimsy test boxes they're turning out to be one of the best speakers I've ever heard. So far so good. Quite a long project but I'm having lots of fun.

[Knottscott]

Thanks Dustmight. So are you "in the biz" if you were showing things at CES?

I had a part time speaker business for several years, selling out of the house. I was a guest of Convergent Audio for that show back around 1990. The Avalons were really, really nice, and that box design is extremely effective...I also think it's really cool looking....you could sure do alot worse the Avalons! Are you going with passive crossovers? Gonna bi-wire them? Good look with the end result.

It took me many years to build the set of speakers that I finally settled on for myself. It's amazing how much difference small crossover adjustments can make. I loved the whole scene, but once I finally had them done, I lost interest....or maybe it was the 6 kids getting in the way of things! Regardless, the business went away about then, much to my wife's approval! I eventually evened up the score by getting into woodworking! ...If I've gotta have a vice, I suppose its more constructive than drinking, smoking, gambling, drugs, or pornography...)

[JonW]

Hi Dustmight,

Interesting history there. Yeah, the speakers are going to have a passive crossover. It's 90% done but I'll need to make new measurements and tweak the crossover accordingly when I have the drivers in their final cabinets. Agreed that the small crossover differences can help things out a lot. That's why I like being able to make my own design. It's really turning out to sound very nice. I also like the scene but I don't know how long I'll stick with it. After these are done I've got plans for some high end 3 ways and some high end small PC/desktop speakers. We'll see what happens after that.

6 kids?!?! Oh my. That'll keep you busy. My wife likes my building speakers. For 2 reasons, I think. First, she gets to enjoy the speakers when they're done. She really likes having the good speakers around. Second, she says "It's great. All you need is a cheap piece of wood to keep you happy for a whole day."

I got to do a little glue up work last night- rare for me to be in the wood shop during the week. Free time for this fun project is rare. But yeah, it keeps me off the street, away from more degenerate activities. And at this point in life, I find it even more fun.

[Knottscott]

My wife didn't like the speaker business for two reasons....
1) my obsession with it
2) the constant stream of strangers coming into the house to listen, while she tried to keep the kids quiet!

Back on topic for a minute ...my Freud LU87R010 showed up today, and it's really an LU87! ...knock wood but I've never had a blade mix up with them. It'll probably be a few days before I get to try it. Did your TS2000 show yet?

[JonW]

Hi Dustmight,

Yeah, I can totally understand not wanting a parade of people coming into the house looking to buy speakers. Back before I made my own, and I was shopping for commercial speakers, I did visit one guy's house looking at some speakers. It was slightly awkward, especially because I didn't buy them in the end- I preferred other ones (Totem Forests, which I bought).

Excellent that your LU87 arrived- as an LU87! Better luck than what I had.

My TS2000 isn't here yet. But no big deal. I probably won't install it until I'm done building the current speaker cabinets. I don't want to change or mess up anything on the table saw just yet, in the middle of a project. This weekend I will try to cut those facets in the real baffles. I hope it goes well enough that I don't have to remake the baffles. It's a pretty tricky job, at least for a newbie like me.

[JonW]

I think I have found the limits of the Ryobi BT3100. I’ve now got the facets cut in the 2 front baffles. They came out OK. Could be a little better, but not bad and I’m generally happy with them. The baffles are 3 layers of 3/4” Russian Baltic birch ply. It was a little difficult to do some of the cutting. I used a circular saw to cut the 4 side/corner facets. That went OK. Then I used the table saw to cut the top facet. The saw had trouble making the cut. I’ve noticed that the saw doesn’t slice through the Baltic birch as readily as scrap BC ply- the birch ply is notably denser. Here I had the saw cut through 3 layers of the Baltic birch, with glue, and at a 45 degree angle. It was slow going, the motor was slowing down a lot no matter how slowly I fed it, and it burned a bit. So that’s really about the limit.



Maybe such cuts will be easier with the new blade.