Disappointing Accessory: Router Table

[bmyers]

Bill, do you have any pics?

Sure.

The white melamine top is the table I built to replace the factory accessory router table.

The gray top melamine is the outfeed table. I have dual rails so this is way off to the right of the blade.

[scmhogg]

West...,

I agree that the accessory router table is a poor sustitute for the real thing. Something like Bill's would solve your space problem. My router gets much more use now that it is in its own dedicated table.

But, you can't just have one router. See this thread http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...hlight=routers

Welcome, are you West of Long Beach, CA? Is that in the ocean or Palos Verdes?

Steve

[LCHIEN]

my last word on this (promise) is that its not a great router table, its's not even a good router table. Its a workable substitute for those that have no router table or have no room for a router table, at a price substantially below what a good router table normally costs. It's better than those steel and aluminum things you buy from Vermin-American(TM) or Sears. It makes a fair first router table and is good for roundovers or for a second router table.

For the benefits, you put up with some compromises. For the money, its a good deal.

[Black wallnut]

I'm not sure what you expect out of your tools. When I first bought my BT3K I used the features exclusively. I monted an older hand-me-down Skil router that I got from my Dad in the Acc. table and was able to construct several large projects. My uses were raised panel doors, numerous box jointed drawers, and plenty of profile cuts. For some of this I had to make a special single use router table to raise the panels, which I c-clamped to my saw.

Only later did I install my wide table kit and hang a router, two different ones actually, with a Rosseau mounting plate. This lasted about three years until I built my current saw/ router cart. I still have the Skil router mounted to a Ryobi mounting plate for occasional use in the Acc. table and it is a nice thing to have when the SHTF and I have to re-make some piece with joinery plus other router cuts and the joint cutter is set up in my main router station. Sometimes you just do not want to have to disturb a setup until all joinery is done. this is when the other router set up helps.

The Ryobi router mounting kit for the BT3 series of saws leaves a bit to be desired but IMHO your issues are not what I've found to be problem areas. The Ryobi suppied fence is worthless, or at least nearly so. The router opening is limited due to small size, the combination of the plate and table thickness is frustrating with short 1/4" shank bits. Table size is limited and due to the fact of having to move the acc. table outward away from the main table medium length stock support is tedious at times. I could go on and on but IMNSHO when working within the limitations imposed, and a little bit of creative jigging as work arounds, the router station in the saw is a brillant idea and a great feature for this under-priced saw! IIRC I paid $429.00 for mine!

[paulstenlund]

I had the three base Ryobi in the accessory table and it worked just fine, but I used the plunge base, the switch and locking device were toward the front and easy to get to (perhaps just lucky when assembling?) and the plunge screw adjustment worked good for fine adjustment. The other bases need three men and a gorilla to adjust the height. Now I have the M-12v in it with a extra sliding miter table, works great for rails and stiles etc. and I lock the SMT down for conventional routing. The controls are all easy to get to. I suggest you try the plunge base in it (since its the only one that works for any length of time, I think the heat might distort the others)

edit: I also use the Craftman fence off that bargain table that appeared here ~last year all-in- all it turned out better than the Capsman which I use for my second table I also adjusted the height of the SMT to be the same as the acc. table

Paul

[Garasaki]

Not trying to stir the pot here,

And I've never used anything else,

But I absolutely love the bt3k router table, mounted at the end of the rails opposite the saw itself, with a different fence that rides on the rails. I have a bosch 1617...a latch and a button to push and it slides right out from the base. I keep the fixed base mounted to my bt3k all the time. I will eventually "build it into" my saw's mobile base.

Frankly, I don't see anything really "bad" about the bt3k router table. It's a flat surface that a router sticks up thru. I mean, it's hard to do that badly. I could see how a table could have more bells and whistles that make things easier and more convienent, but the basic function would still be the same as the bt3k table, and I don't see how any table could do that better.

[Brian G]

When mounted, my router ends up with the axle-shaft stabilizing pin at the back, away from the user, so it can't really be reached to change bits when the router is mounted. This is doubly so, where the wrench won't fit in the space between the saw housing and the router.

So that I understand, you attach the mounting plate so that the particular base that you use is positioned like this, correct? I'm using the fixed base; normally, I prefer the plunge base because it has the fine-depth adjuster.



I agree that this configuration puts the collet locking pin at the back, which isn't convenient, but I don't find the collet locking pin to be unreachable.

I don't understand what you mean by the wrench not fitting in the space between the saw housing and the router. Pardon the fuzzy image (I really need to get a tripod!), but even with the router at full depth, I was able to fit the wrench to the collet locking nut. Note that I took out the front dust shield to gain access to the collet locking nut.



I think if you put a slight bend in the wrench, it may even fit in easier.

The other option is to rotate your base of choice 180° like this:



It makes the collet locking pin easier to reach, but then it makes using the wrench difficult.



As to the issues with the Ryobi three base kit, I wonder whether I'm the one person that got the one good kit. I have not experienced the problems with depth adjustment when using the fixed or D-handle base. My shop is in the basement, so perhaps I don't have issues with contraction/expansion because the temperature doesn't fluctuate. Plus, I'm very dedicated to removing the motor and giving the unit and whichever base I used a thorough cleaning when I'm done.

The collet locking pin took a few tries getting used to how it worked. Once you become aware of the hangups, then you're more in tune with how to avoid them.

[eezlock]

router table

I agree with Loring about the Bt router table, it is at best a starter unit for routing, an accessory not a primary use one. If you get serious about doing a lot of router work, you will probably find that you want/ need a better set up to handle that kind of work. Most people go in one of two directions here.
(1) build a good router table with a lift system and easier to adjust router
into a dedicated router table, benchtop or into a mobile router station.
(2) they build a good router table into the saw's extension wing with good
lift and easily adjustable router installed in it.

In either case here...a little more time spent planning, some more money
spent on equipment, will yield a better to use set up that will produce
far better results in the long run.

Look at it this way, there are few machines out there than can do a mutitude
of things very well, but there are machines that can do one thing at a time
very well. This is what needs to be considered in using a tablesaw to do
more than it's intended primary job....cutting wood to proper dimension.
'nuff said here...eezlock

[WestofLongBeach]

I'm not clear on why this is a problem (the clumsiness issue aside). Yes, dropping the router out of the base will lose your depth setting -- but you're only dropping the router out to change bits, right? And changing bits will itself cause you to lose your depth setting.

Unless I'm missing something ...

No, I think you're probably right. But the move is terminally inaccessible because of the other reasons stated. You just can't get at my router under the table. You have to remove the entire table, is my conclusion, because working under the table with the clumsy shaft stabilization pin and wrench which is too long to fit between the router body and the frame of the saw ...

Do you see what I'm saying?

[WestofLongBeach]

West...,

I agree that the accessory router table is a poor sustitute for the real thing. Something like Bill's would solve your space problem. My router gets much more use now that it is in its own dedicated table.

But, you can't just have one router. See this thread http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...hlight=routers

Welcome, are you West of Long Beach, CA? Is that in the ocean or Palos Verdes?

Steve

Steve,

LOL! No, it is actually derived from a screen name I use elsewhere that is my favorite, but it would just not be appropriate nor welcomed 'round here, I judge. Too distracting.

As for the ocean being west of Long Beach, you sound like you're somewhat familiar with the area, and have misplaced the part of your memory that tells you that the ocean is south of us. Unless you cross an awful lot of territory to find it, including of course PV.

And isn't Bill's router table accessory exactly what one would want, if he's going to go all BT3x-centric and keep the router mounted to the right of the saw? Man, it's tight!

[WestofLongBeach]

Bill,

Now, that is a TIGHT build-on. I must say. Don't suppose you created plans for it? Did you keep the Ryobi router table hardware?

Pretty neat job.

Thanks for the illustrations.

Don.

[WestofLongBeach]

I'm not sure what you expect out of your tools. When I first bought my BT3K I used the features exclusively. I monted an older hand-me-down Skil router that I got from my Dad in the Acc. table and was able to construct several large projects. My uses were raised panel doors, numerous box jointed drawers, and plenty of profile cuts. For some of this I had to make a special single use router table to raise the panels, which I c-clamped to my saw.

You just didn't have the same issues as I have. And I bought the table having seen it, knowing that the lack of the ability to hang an insert of some kind was going to irritate me some day.

The issue with the router is not the BT3's fault obviously. But the fact that the table is set up so that the Ryobi router I have is inaccessible unless I dismount SOMETHING, was unexpected and frankly shortsighted. It begins to look like the best solution is going to be to dismount the entire table when I need to access the router, once the problem with the base/motor friction is relieved. Which I am working on as we write.

...Sometimes you just do not want to have to disturb a setup until all joinery is done. this is when the other router set up helps.

Absolutely.

The Ryobi router mounting kit for the BT3 series of saws leaves a bit to be desired but IMHO your issues are not what I've found to be problem areas. The Ryobi suppied fence is worthless, or at least nearly so. The router opening is limited due to small size, the combination of the plate and table thickness is frustrating with short 1/4" shank bits. Table size is limited and due to the fact of having to move the acc. table outward away from the main table medium length stock support is tedious at times. I could go on and on but IMNSHO when working within the limitations imposed, and a little bit of creative jigging as work arounds, the router station in the saw is a brillant idea and a great feature for this under-priced saw! IIRC I paid $429.00 for mine!

Like I said, I have different issues, but recognize yours.

[WestofLongBeach]

Paul,

I had the three base Ryobi in the accessory table and it worked just fine, but I used the plunge base, the switch and locking device were toward the front and easy to get to (perhaps just lucky when assembling?) and the plunge screw adjustment worked good for fine adjustment.

I didn't want to use the plunge base because it is so handy for freehand work. Didn't want to give up that tool for a permanent mount on the table.

As for "lucky", it just ain't so. The three screws in the router mounting plate are asymmetrical, therefore the router's relationship to the router table mounting plate is cast in gold; the router table mounting plate itself is "keyed" so that it can only be mounted one way, which I think is an odd piece of control-for-control's-sake. Seems to me.

The other bases need three men and a gorilla to adjust the height... (since its the only one that works for any length of time, I think the heat might distort the others)

I thought I mentioned the difficulty of removing and adjusting the bases in my first post. Turns out it's a known defect of this kit, and that Ryobi is repairing routers that come back in the warranty period.

I tried such things as graphite lubricant, but it made no difference at all. Now, since I am still within the two years, I have my router at a local shop where if I can get a receipt, they will either repair it or send it off. It's going to be a long, cold routerless winter, looks like, in any case.

edit: I also use the Craftman fence off that bargain table that appeared here ~last year all-in- all it turned out better than the Capsman which I use for my second table I also adjusted the height of the SMT to be the same as the acc. table

Paul

[WestofLongBeach]

Frankly, I don't see anything really "bad" about the bt3k router table. It's a flat surface that a router sticks up thru. I mean, it's hard to do that badly. I could see how a table could have more bells and whistles that make things easier and more convienent, but the basic function would still be the same as the bt3k table, and I don't see how any table could do that better.

You can't change a bit using my Ryobi router when mounted in the table, nor adjust the height.

If you use the router without changing bits, or without adjusting the height, it's fine. However, I'm like most folks who use a router, I expect.

[WestofLongBeach]

Brian,

BTW, thanks for all the obvious trouble you put into this thoughtful reply.

So that I understand, you attach the mounting plate so that the particular base that you use is positioned like this, correct? I'm using the fixed base; normally, I prefer the plunge base because it has the fine-depth adjuster.

[ATTACH]4691[/ATTACH]

I don't have the router just now, as it's in the shop. But that doesn't look like what I have. I wonder if different bases are rotated, one from another? That would REALLY be a crazy piece of engineering.

I agree that this configuration puts the collet locking pin at the back, which isn't convenient, but I don't find the collet locking pin to be unreachable.

It's pretty hard to get at, if not unreachable. I suppose I'm comparing it not with having the collet pin at the front; marginally better; but with having the router removable from the router table as with an insert. A whole lot better.

I don't understand what you mean by the wrench not fitting in the space between the saw housing and the router. Pardon the fuzzy image (I really need to get a tripod!), but even with the router at full depth, I was able to fit the wrench to the collet locking nut. Note that I took out the front dust shield to gain access to the collet locking nut.

If you come in from the front, after removing the dust shield, it could be done. But I have the dust shield in, and need to both depress the pin and use the wrench in the same opening, which is away from me and between the body of the saw and the router body. I don't think anyone would see that as convenient. Also, as I remember, the wrench is too long to fit between the router body and the saw. Or, if not, it is so close to too long that it gets in the way.

If I take out the shield, that might be better, but then I will be coming in from both sides, under the table. Maybe I could get used to this. I still think for short term I will probably end up dismounting the entire table and throwing it up on the BT3 saw body or preferentially on the work table. That seems really much more direct.

[ATTACH]4692[/ATTACH]

I think if you put a slight bend in the wrench, it may even fit in easier.

The other option is to rotate your base of choice 180° like this:

[ATTACH]4689[/ATTACH]

It makes the collet locking pin easier to reach, but then it makes using the wrench difficult.

[ATTACH]4690[/ATTACH]

As to the issues with the Ryobi three base kit, I wonder whether I'm the one person that got the one good kit. I have not experienced the problems with depth adjustment when using the fixed or D-handle base. My shop is in the basement, so perhaps I don't have issues with contraction/expansion because the temperature doesn't fluctuate. Plus, I'm very dedicated to removing the motor and giving the unit and whichever base I used a thorough cleaning when I'm done.

It's neither expansion/contraction, nor debris causing it. It doesn't fit. Evidently Ryobi is going to fix it for me and anyone else who comes in within the warranty 2 years. IMHO they should fix it for everybody, as it's a defect that evidently results from a missed decimal point in engineering or production, and not breakage or the like. That is, I see this as more a product recall situation than a warranty situation, but if they will make the set work?

The collet locking pin took a few tries getting used to how it worked. Once you become aware of the hangups, then you're more in tune with how to avoid them.

I can only hope things will progress.

Don.