Disappointing Accessory: Router Table

[WestofLongBeach]

I have the router mounting table which BTW came with a whole kit of other mostly useful stuff, much of which I have used at least once, attached to my BT3100.

However.

The router table (now take into account that I am a real newby where router usage is concerned) seems to me to be so clumsily designed that it is almost useless. Maybe not. Here is what I find:

When mounted, my router ends up with the axle-shaft stabilizing pin at the back, away from the user, so it can't really be reached to change bits when the router is mounted. This is doubly so, where the wrench won't fit in the space between the saw housing and the router.

In fact, the only way you can change a bit AFAICT is by moving the table, which of course, scotches whatever settings you have and may want to preserve.

This mount is more or less permanent. This means that whenever I need to make any change I pretty much have to dismount the entire thing, all seven screws, avoid losing them while I mess with the router, and remount it afterward. Not my long suit, so it seems like a poor design. I am used to seeing router tables with loose-mounted inserts (often heavy, red plastic) which carry the router by resting on a lip in the tabletop, and which you can take out to change bits, etc.

An aside, only partly pertinent to the above: The router, which I just took in for warranty service, has what I think is a known defect, which makes adjustment that much harder: unscrewing it or adjusting height takes the strength of three men and a boy, requiring about 20 minutes of strenuous effort by someone who may be weak by your standards, but rows 10,000 meters a week.

So the design of the table, requiring a lengthy and unhandy dismount whenever a change is made, when combined with the unhandiness of changing elevation, makes it pretty cumbersome.

So I wonder, if anyone more experienced has worked around these issues or doesn't find that they ARE issues, or what?

Thanks a lot.

Don --
It's Ryobi

[jwaterdawg]

I don't have a BT3 anymore, but I did at one point with two router tables. Although they were not as nice as my current setups, I never experienced the difficulties you describe. You might get some good suggestions if you mention the make/model of the router as there may be other members with the same.

Also, I assume you tried mounting the router in different configurations, possibly having to redrill the router mounting accessory plate (the plate, not the table itself)? Pictures would help too.

Good luck.

[LCHIEN]

I don't know what exact model of BT3 you have nor what model of router.
But I'll say this:
The BT3 router mounting is a convenience and not a prime table - there are tradeoffs for its being inexpensive and space saving.
The router usually mounts with 3 or four screws to the plate. The plate mounts with four screws to the auxiliary table.
Just removing the four screws to the plate you can remove the router very easily from the auxiliary table and reinstall it quicly too, without losing settings. If you need you can change bits etc. with the router mounting removed but the router still on it.
Further, if you don't want to remove the plate and router to change bits, you can rotate the router by 90 degree increments or 120 degree increments depending upon the router make - most craftsman & ryobi routers have four holes and most porter-cable, bosch or dewalt routers use the three hole pattern. If you still don't like where the adjustments line up, make a new set of holes.
Finally, if you have a no-good hard to adjust router, it's not your saw's fault. Most routers were not built for under-table usage as their primary use, so its often not the easiest to change bits or height in ANY table, let alone the BT3. As mentioned in the BT3 FAQ, the router table is a bonus, not a great thing but not bad for the price or a second router table.

[WestofLongBeach]

LCHIEN,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know what exact model of BT3 you have nor what model of router.

The saw is a BT3100. The model of the router is, I'm pretty sure, RE1802M. It is a 2-hp., adjustable speed router that came in a "kit" with three bases. Sorry for not including it above.

But I'll say this:
...
The router usually mounts with 3 or four screws to the plate. The plate mounts with four screws to the auxiliary table.
Just removing the four screws to the plate you can remove the router very easily from the auxiliary table and reinstall it quicly too, without losing settings. If you need you can change bits etc. with the router mounting removed but the router still on it.
Further, if you don't want to remove the plate and router to change bits, you can rotate the router by 90 degree increments or 120 degree increments depending upon the router make - most craftsman & ryobi routers have four holes and most porter-cable, bosch or dewalt routers use the three hole pattern.

The router has an asymmetrical three-hole base plate. The router table's plate is "keyed" by cutting off two corners and having the plate nest in a corresponding set of ridges outlining its shape, so there's no chance of rotating it easily, AFAICT.

If you still don't like where the adjustments line up, make a new set of holes.

I suppose I could do that, but when I watch people remove their routers from the table by merely lifting them out, undoing four screws seems like a bind in the workflow. Just me.

Finally, if you have a no-good hard to adjust router, it's not your saw's fault. Most routers were not built for under-table usage as their primary use, so its often not the easiest to change bits or height in ANY table, let alone the BT3. As mentioned in the BT3 FAQ, the router table is a bonus, not a great thing but not bad for the price or a second router table.

No, it certainly was not bad for the price, especially with the other stuff I got with it. But I doubt I will be using it for long, with the difficulty of adjusting it. Maybe when the stiffness issue is resolved which, as we both mention, has nothing to do with the BT3100, I will find it more convenient to remove the entire table than to remove the router from the table. The fact of having to remove the router table to adjust the router will be less of a burden, prob'ly, if I can adjust its height at all without asking the neighbors to come and help me.

My shop area is so small that it will remain inconvenient to schlepp the router table around until I get some more stuff cleared out. I guess I have a router table building project in my future.

Hm. I wonder if I could remove the auxiliary table's hardware and mount it to a reinforced piece of hardboard or the like, with a proper mounting hole ridged to accept the ubiquitous piece of red plastic?

Hm.

[Thom2]

I have a question,

If this is the 3-base Ryobi kit, why are you concerned about having a plate lift out to change bits?? ... AFAIK, most of the people that have the similar Bosch/DeWalt/PC kits just drop the motor out of the base, throw it up on the table and change bits, then reinstall back into the base. This is supposed to be one of the better features of this kind of kit.

I will tell you that there have been NUMEROUS complaints about the height adjustment on that router kit, as well as problems with the ease of removing the motor from the bases. I personally think you'd find your experience a lot more satisfying if you would have invested in a kit like the Bosch/DeWalt/PC.

[scorrpio]

I have a DW618B3 3-base Dewalt kit. One of the bases is permanently mounted on the BT3 at this point. I dunno how base change is done for your router, but in my case, I press a couple tabs on the base, and router motor slips out. I change the bit without any fuss, and then just slide the motor back into the base till it clicks into the tabs. The process of removing the motor or inserting it back takes less than 3 seconds - less time in fact than it'd take me to fully raise the router for bit-change with an above-table raiser crank.

[WestofLongBeach]

I have a question,

If this is the 3-base Ryobi kit, why are you concerned about having a plate lift out to change bits?? ... AFAIK, most of the people that have the similar Bosch/DeWalt/PC kits just drop the motor out of the base, throw it up on the table and change bits, then reinstall back into the base. This is supposed to be one of the better features of this kind of kit.

It's dropping the motor that's the problem. As you mention below, there is a known defect in the Ryobi motor/base kits that makes them powerfully difficult to adjust. I would have to unscrew the motor completely to remove it from the plate, and that would require depressing the chuck stabilizing pin which stands proud of the base itself, something you don't want to get into if you can avoid it.

I will tell you that there have been NUMEROUS complaints about the height adjustment on that router kit, as well as problems with the ease of removing the motor from the bases. I personally think you'd find your experience a lot more satisfying if you would have invested in a kit like the Bosch/DeWalt/PC.

You're right, as I tried to say in my original post: there is a known defect in the kit which makes adjustment/ removal very, very hard. If I were more experienced with routers specifically, I would have spotted it a long time ago and taken the router in for warranty work. That is where it is now, and R tells me they will repair it.

As for Bosch/DeWalt/PC, the Ryobi was about 1/3 the cost. I may end up regretting it, but OTOH I have used my router for several projects where I do not mount it, very satisfactorily and continue to learn more about using it. I hope it will be better still with the stickiness fixed.

I only really ran into trouble when I tried to change bases and/or mount the router in a table. Maybe, as I mentioned above, I could either build a satisfactory table once the router functions better, or even build a fiberboard replacement for the metal one.

[LCHIEN]

The router has an asymmetrical three-hole base plate. The router table's plate is "keyed" by cutting off two corners and having the plate nest in a corresponding set of ridges outlining its shape, so there's no chance of rotating it easily, AFAICT.

yeah, the router mtg plate only goes one way but its hard to picture that the router only goes on the plate one way. At the very most a few new holes in the mtg plate and zip, it's done.
I think my BT3 FAQ describes how to mount routers to the plate.

[reddog552]

Router Table Dilemma

Router mont is defelenty a issue ,I lucked out, By sheer chance I ran into a guy in a bar he needed money $50 Hitachi M-12V .I have it mounted standard No problem changing bits, Wrenches and cullet lock work easly speed control is a little ackward but not too bad. The 3 1/4 HP 1/2In.cullet works well. I have Grizzly Mo G4820 Shaper set up It works like a dream. The choice of router is the problem, thats all. Hope I could Help

[LarryG]

Loring nailed it with his first post: as a router table, the BT3x00 accessory table is a "well, I guess it's better than nothing" proposition at best. To be sure, for many this is their only router table, and they turn out some fine work using it; but even they will admit that it has its limitations, especially in the area of convenience. For many BT owners, the accessory table is used as a primary router mount just long enough to help them get a dedicated table built, at which time the AT is relegated to backup status for a second router.

If space is a concern (and it virtually always is, for most of us) and you don't have room for a separate, stand-alone router table, a good compromise is to build your own extension wing for your BT, replacing the accessory table. This can be as simple or an elaborate as you like. Some guys just cut a hole in the top and bolt the router to the underside; others go whole hog with a lift; most go somewhere in the middle and use an insert plate so the router can be easily popped out for bit changes.

Your frustration with the spindle lock is one reason I much prefer the "antiquated" two-wrench collet system. Spindle locks are often a PITA even with the router out of the table.

[Thom2]

It's dropping the motor that's the problem. As you mention below, there is a known defect in the Ryobi motor/base kits that makes them powerfully difficult to adjust. I would have to unscrew the motor completely to remove it from the plate, and that would require depressing the chuck stabilizing pin which stands proud of the base itself, something you don't want to get into if you can avoid it.



You're right, as I tried to say in my original post: there is a known defect in the kit which makes adjustment/ removal very, very hard. If I were more experienced with routers specifically, I would have spotted it a long time ago and taken the router in for warranty work. That is where it is now, and R tells me they will repair it.

As for Bosch/DeWalt/PC, the Ryobi was about 1/3 the cost. I may end up regretting it, but OTOH I have used my router for several projects where I do not mount it, very satisfactorily and continue to learn more about using it. I hope it will be better still with the stickiness fixed.

I only really ran into trouble when I tried to change bases and/or mount the router in a table. Maybe, as I mentioned above, I could either build a satisfactory table once the router functions better, or even build a fiberboard replacement for the metal one.

Sounds to me like your dissappointment should be focused on the router kit and not on the table setup that the BT offers. I've been using the accessory table for several years with a Hitachi M12V hanging underneath coupled with a homebrew rail mounted fence and you'd be hard pressed to find anything on the market (in the price range) to compare.

The title of your post is the dissappointment with the accessory table, I don't think that's fair at all. Any time you have equipment that's not working like it should is going to spoil the overall experience in trying to use accessory equipment. In your case, I think your opinion of the BT's routing capability would change drastically if you had a router kit that operated as it should. While I don't think you're going to jump up and down and think you've found the best thing since sliced bread, the BT table is an excellent starting table that takes up very little space for real short cash.

[bmyers]

I wasn't all that impressed with the router kit either from Ryobi. It's better than nothing. I used it enough to make another one from MDF that fit between the rails and could be raised up when in use. It uses a regular mounting plate that you see everywhere else.

After that, I got an old laminate desk from the local used furniture outlet. The top of the desk was doubled up 3/4" MDF, laminated on both side. I attached some hinges and hinged it off the back of the saw rail as a secondary outfeed table. It's about 3 feet square and when I'm not using it I can remove the router/plate and swing it down. It has brackets (sticks) that sit not on the floor but rest on the mobile base itself.

Bill

[WestofLongBeach]

Sounds to me like your dissappointment should be focused on the router kit and not on the table setup that the BT offers.

Well, it's both, really. The fact that the router kit has a defect doesn't really make the issue with the table disappear.

The title of your post is the dissappointment with the accessory table, I don't think that's fair at all. Any time you have equipment that's not working like it should is going to spoil the overall experience in trying to use accessory equipment. In your case, I think your opinion of the BT's routing capability would change drastically if you had a router kit that operated as it should. While I don't think you're going to jump up and down and think you've found the best thing since sliced bread, the BT table is an excellent starting table that takes up very little space for real short cash.

The problem with the router makes it all worse, no doubt. But the table I find ungainly. I don't know why it was engineered with a small mounting hole and without an insert. I knew that when I bought it, and pretty much knew I wouldn't be using it forever, because the insert systems are really attractive. To me. I don't know what your Hitachi setup is, but if it releases readily you have reason to be satisfied. With the Ryobi, there are three options:

1. Unscrew the router body from its base (not a good solution, as the depth setting would disappear each time. It's also a clumsy move to make while the router is hanging, especially since the table is set up so the router cannot be rotated at all. It also takes quite a while even if you can reach it under the table, mounted as it must be)
2. Remove the four screws fastening the baseplate to the table(very, very timeconsuming and I don't like at all having to routinely remove mounting screws for minor tool changes. It's a good way to end up losing a screw, at best)
3. Remove the entire table for access to the router.

I will probably end up doing number three, as it can be done fairly quickly although it's going to be sort of like having a router attached to this enormous insert. I may, as I said, replace the table using the existing hardware, or build my own. I don't see this one, given the Ryobi router which is in every other way satisfactory, filling the bill, although it might.

[Cike]

I wasn't all that impressed with the router kit either from Ryobi. It's better than nothing. I used it enough to make another one from MDF that fit between the rails and could be raised up when in use. It uses a regular mounting plate that you see everywhere else.

After that, I got an old laminate desk from the local used furniture outlet. The top of the desk was doubled up 3/4" MDF, laminated on both side. I attached some hinges and hinged it off the back of the saw rail as a secondary outfeed table. It's about 3 feet square and when I'm not using it I can remove the router/plate and swing it down. It has brackets (sticks) that sit not on the floor but rest on the mobile base itself.

Bill

Bill, do you have any pics?

[LarryG]

1. Unscrew the router body from its base (not a good solution, as the depth setting would disappear each time.

I'm not clear on why this is a problem (the clumsiness issue aside). Yes, dropping the router out of the base will lose your depth setting -- but you're only dropping the router out to change bits, right? And changing bits will itself cause you to lose your depth setting.

Unless I'm missing something ...