Missing Malaysian Flight 370

[LCHIEN]

A 9/11 style attack will likely never occur again. When planes go missing, air forces go on alert, fighters scramble when planes appear off their normal routes. Too risky.

....

I disagree, the one thing that we have learned from this "disappearance" is that very few if any of the southeast asian countries have radar defenses that would have alarmed on this missing plane: first the alarm that it went missing was largely unheeded by anyone for a long time. Second the tracking of the plane appears to not have raised a single alarm in real time... only a week later going back and analyzing have they discovered there may be a contact that could have been MH370 but we didn't notice or think anything of it at the time. Some of the countries in the area have pretty much said they turn off their military defense radar at night to save manpower and electricity.

If MH370 had turned back to Kuala Lampur with its transponders off it could very easily have taken out the one or both of the Petronas Towers had they wanted to. Malaysia's military had no clue and there would only have been an hour to put all the facts together and scramble an interceptor. Even then had the pilots aimed toward the airport rather than the target no one in their right mind would shoot it down presuming they had total electronics comms failure and were coming back for an emergency landing. A last minute turn would put the target within 20 miles of the airport in 2 minutes flying time.

[All Thumbs]

I disagree, the one thing that we have learned from this "disappearance" is...

Right, we've learned and now know that with the benefit of hindsight. The pilot couldn't have known how air control would respond if they had picked a hard target and gone for it. He was also flying a plane full of passengers that would likely become very suspicious of any strangeness, and they could also foil his efforts. Also, this is ONE plane, not three, like 9/11, so if you're trying to raise the bar, flying a single plane into a tower isn't going to do it.

So you fly the plane avoiding radar. You tell the passengers you're having engine difficulty, and you're being diverted. You tell them that you're having problems controlling the plane and you're going to fly low in the event that you lose another engine. You keep the passengers calm, you avoid radar, you monitor airwaves to make sure you haven't been detected, and you land the plane.

Finally, it is entirely possible they didn't WANT to knock-down a tower. There are plenty of moves to be made on a chess board, many of which lead to cornering the opponent.

[atgcpaul]

A 9/11 style attack will likely never occur again. When planes go missing, air forces go on alert, fighters scramble when planes appear off their normal routes. Too risky.

I disagree, the one thing that we have learned from this "disappearance" is that very few if any of the southeast asian countries have radar defenses that would have alarmed on this missing plane: first the alarm that it went missing was largely unheeded by anyone for a long time. Second the tracking of the plane appears to not have raised a single alarm in real time... only a week later going back and analyzing have they discovered there may be a contact that could have been MH370 but we didn't notice or think anything of it at the time. Some of the countries in the area have pretty much said they turn off their military defense radar at night to save manpower and electricity.

Heard this on the drive in to work regarding what was known by radar (and not shared) at the time of this plane's disappearance. I don't think the transcripts are printed until later in the day so you'll have to listen to the audio. Basically the Malaysian military knew the plane turned, had jets that could scramble, but they didn't. The Thai also saw a plane enter their airspace but didn't think anything about it and didn't come forward with this information because noone asked them about it.


http://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291312...-disappearance



I think we in the US are hyper aware of what could go wrong now that 9/11 has happened, but these countries haven't had something on that scale happen *yet*. I think they'll all be rethinking their approaches to situations like this from now on.

I mean, heck, remember when you could go see your loved ones off at the airport AT THE GATE? Now you can't enter without a boarding pass. Almost 15 years ago, I was seeing my girlfriend off at the gate. We somehow lost track of each other and I thought she already boarded. The ticket taker at the boarding ramp let me walk unescorted onto the plane so I could find her and say goodbye. She was still actually at the gate, but if this happened today, I would have been arrested and you'd hear about it on the nightly news.

Paul

[dbhost]

Okay this whole disappearance thing has me seriously wondering what is going on. All kidding about Alien abductions set aside, just how can there be that big of a security hole in radar surveillance among the many nations in SE Asia that something as big as a Boeing 777 can just disappear? All communications gear talking or not notwithstanding, you would think that every flight of every aircraft would be tracked from hangar to hangar somehow, by somebody.

This reeks of government sponsored abduction / hijacking, but even if, what government would want this done? North Korea? And take the risk of ticking off the Chinese? Kim may be nuts, but he's not that stupid...

Iran? Maybe, but then again, only if they thought they could divert blame and again, avoid the wrath of China.

Other questions about. Why such interest in this flight from the US government? There was only one US citizen aboard as I understand it. Is the technology in the 777 that secret that they are trying to keep it from being reverse engineered by some foreign company?

I just don't see how people on land wouldn't have reported, or police / military had noticed a plane flying VERY low over Malaysia, and investigated, or not been spotted by marine / aviation radar flying over whatever body of water, and again, not on any flight chart / expected been investigated.

If indeed this was a planned abduction / theft of an aircraft, and all the people on board, then this was pulled off with more than a few people, there would have been involvement of numerous flight controllers, pilots, radar operators, police, etc... Either that, or the scale of incompetence is so massive as to be absolutely shocking.

[atgcpaul]

just how can there be that big of a security hole in radar surveillance among the many nations in SE Asia that something as big as a Boeing 777 can just disappear? All communications gear talking or not notwithstanding, you would think that every flight of every aircraft would be tracked from hangar to hangar somehow, by somebody.

Yeah, I've been puzzled over this, too, but what I've heard is that there is no international SOP of how this data should be recorded, tracked, etc. And who's going to take ownership of the system? Are you going to trust country X, your mortal enemy, with the information of where all your commercial planes are?

In the movies (Independence Day, Alien Nation, Pacific Rim, Ender's Game, etc) Earth always seems to unite around a common alien enemy. So let's hope it is aliens.

Either that, or the scale of incompetence is so massive as to be absolutely shocking.

Although there appears to be deliberate action taken by someone in the cockpit to conceal their location, I think this follows the KISS rule. Many people didn't do their job.

[capncarl]

Is the theft of this airplane to steal it's technology a real player here? Hasn't this plane been sold outside the boundarys of this country where any industrial spy could steal any trade secrets he wanted? I bet that you can buy the blueprints for any part of this plane on the black market.
capncarl

[dtam]

Okay this whole disappearance thing has me seriously wondering what is going on. All kidding about Alien abductions set aside, just how can there be that big of a security hole in radar surveillance among the many nations in SE Asia that something as big as a Boeing 777 can just disappear? All communications gear talking or not notwithstanding, you would think that every flight of every aircraft would be tracked from hangar to hangar somehow, by somebody.

This reeks of government sponsored abduction / hijacking, but even if, what government would want this done? North Korea? And take the risk of ticking off the Chinese? Kim may be nuts, but he's not that stupid...

Iran? Maybe, but then again, only if they thought they could divert blame and again, avoid the wrath of China.

Other questions about. Why such interest in this flight from the US government? There was only one US citizen aboard as I understand it. Is the technology in the 777 that secret that they are trying to keep it from being reverse engineered by some foreign company?

I just don't see how people on land wouldn't have reported, or police / military had noticed a plane flying VERY low over Malaysia, and investigated, or not been spotted by marine / aviation radar flying over whatever body of water, and again, not on any flight chart / expected been investigated.

If indeed this was a planned abduction / theft of an aircraft, and all the people on board, then this was pulled off with more than a few people, there would have been involvement of numerous flight controllers, pilots, radar operators, police, etc... Either that, or the scale of incompetence is so massive as to be absolutely shocking.

Actually there were 2 other americans - siblings Nicole Meng, 4 and Yan Zhang, 2. Supposedly their mom was also aboard:

212. YAN ZHANG - Chinese - 36

She was pregnant and traveling with her husband, in-laws and two children, Nicole, 4, and Leo, both of whom were U.S. citizens. She had dual citizenship in the China and the U.S.

Here is info on some of the 239 victims if anyone is interested:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1739217

[LCHIEN]

this thing keeps getting stranger and stranger. I'm beginning to think they will never find this plane and the following questions will never be resolved:

motive - suicide, terror or theft or weird highly improbable technical problem

who - pilot, crew, passenger, outside element?

whether they had outside help or it was all an inside job

if the initiator was a person or technical problem altho the latter looks very remote

whether the "who" accomplished his mission or botched (e.g. if it WAS terror and they DID crash into the ocean then it was probably foiled somehow, either through passenger action or plan failure)

What the plan really was - did they fly this meandering path on purpose or did it happen because of struggle for control of the airplane or some really weird technical problem or was it just an attempt to evade radar (which in hindsight hardly seems necessary since the radar coverage was non-existent)

Where did they crash - or did they even really crash?

If the passengers were dead or incapacitated before the crash - what were they doing during a 7-hour misdirected flight?

It's all quite fascinating and the prospect that I'll never know the answers is vaguely unsettling.

[atgcpaul]

If the passengers were dead or incapacitated before the crash - what were they doing during a 7-hour misdirected flight?

It's all quite fascinating and the prospect that I'll never know the answers is vaguely unsettling.

I couldn't imagine being one of the family members and just not knowing. I can definitely understand the rage they are feeling.

Remember this story? Golfer Payne Stewart's jet depressurized at 43K feet probably knocking everyone unconscious within seconds? I think the plane flew on its own for a while. I suppose this is a possibility, but there's so much saying that there was deliberate action to evade detection.

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/year.../stewart1.html

[capncarl]

In the first days of the search for MH370 there was a quick blurb about this plane having illegal cargo containing NMH batteries which could produce toxic gas/fumes and should not be in the cargo bay of an airplane. I never heard mention of this again. Did they decide it was not true or did someone sweep it under the rug and hope nobody was listening? If something in the cargo bay produces a toxic gas will it find its way into the passenger and cockpit compartments? Is this a flaw that the 777 mfg does not want public?