instant obsolescence

[cabinetman]

Best Buy ran the HP Touch Pad in today's paper 16GB $449. Must be an error, or ad was printed before the cleanout. LOML is a gadget freak, and has to have the latest and greatest. What gets me is that some of these devices are just geared for cost. When she first got a PDA (Clie), and the battery went. She just quit using it because of the cost of battery replacement.

.

[Cochese]

Those ads are sent out weeks in advance. That's why you get Black Friday leaks at the beginning of November.

Got a chance to order one today. Was going to use the money for my oscillating sander, but a new piece of tech is just as good.

[LinuxRandal]

I do quite often lower the standard when using "tech minded". Anyone above the level of LOML is tech minded! When the web browser is not instant as in turning a TV on and off or instantly changing channels, she bangs her keyboard and complains that I am hogging the WIFI channel! I keep telling her that the computer is not a TV! She thinks that a computer should be MORE than a TV and faster too, "After all, it IS a computer and a TV isn't!"

But that is her logic!

OT: LR - I thought of you today when I was thinking of one chain of events that led to MS changing their EULA on Windows some years ago. MS of course had the PC hardware makers locked into a contract that said that they would and could only sell Windows on their machines. No one could buy a PC WITHOUT buying a Windows OS, according the the MS contract with the PC vendors. But MS made one mistake - in the initial boot up of a new computer, you could accept the terms of the EULA or refuse it. I believe it was a Linux user in Australia that refused and wanted his money back for the Windows OS that he could not use since he would not accept the EULA. This came about close to the same time that MS was being taken to court for a monopoly abuse. But that Linux user won his case and soon after, MS changed their EULA, in addition to changing monopoly contract with vendors.

OT response, I remember that, and that and an event in the US started Windows refund day.

As to the above (first paragraph), I can't tell you how many people are like that. I figure at some point in time, I will put a Linux machine in front of my mom, with her email, and facebook pages. If it weren't for a few games (Big Fish mostly), she would be better off. (have a lot of the same problems consistently, like no sound after sleep)
A friend moved his families computer to Linux and set icon's on the desk. It was the only way to have his family get online, without them screwing up their machine on a regular basis. They still try to fall for the fake Window's virus scans (does your wife do that on a Mac?).

If I could justify a "data plan", then I would have an Android phone. But when it comes to portable, a basic phone ($100=1000 minutes=365days with around 400 minutes to spare) suits me more then fine. The three times I need some information online, during the year (that can't wait till I get home), I can call others and have them look it up. (for all the different things I have done, pretty easy payback)

Dad went out and bought a laptop today (wow, hit his pricepoint). $299 and in specs, pretty much a large netbook (plus some extra memory). He said the tablets weren't the only thing people were in line for. ANY HP product had lines to it (were they all on closeout?)
There is (or was this morning, for all I know someone did it) and big push to see who could first put Android on this tablet. (already heard of people doing that with Nooks, aka pricepoint against Ipad)

[Cochese]

Picked up one this morning, very lucky!

[LCHIEN]

I can't help it, those guys at HP are waffling big time.

Now they say there's no stock anywhere but they're going to crank up one last big run to meet the apparent demand.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...77T22220110831

According to industry watching organizations that disassemble products the reverse engineering reveals a cost of materials alone in production quantities that costs about $318 per unit. Not including labor and overhead costs (purchasing, shipping, inventorying, support). Not to mention amortized engineering and development costs.

HP in deciding to leave the market has had to take big writeoffs, selling the units on hand at a loss of around $200-$300 per unit. And a big hit on credability.

Now they're saying they're going to make one more big run. Not saying what the selling price will be but there doesn't seem to be much room between what people indicate they're willing to pay ($99 yes, $399 no) and the $300+ it costs to build. How can this be a smart move given that they're vowed to quit the market and they lose moeny on each one? I guess, Lose $200 each but make it up in volume as my boss used to say.

ANd of course, nobody can make sense of HPs strategy going forward.

[TB Roye]

The new CEO of HP is a software guy and that's where he is leading th company. Doesn't know squat about printer, laptops and desktops, but he know software. HP will be go in a few years.

Tom

[LCHIEN]

The new CEO of HP is a software guy and that's where he is leading th company. Doesn't know squat about printer, laptops and desktops, but he know software. HP will be go in a few years.

Tom

selling it, then not selling it, then selling it again is a good way to learn about hardware... just not from the perspectives of the company and the customers.

[Kristofor]

Now they're saying they're going to make one more big run. Not saying what the selling price will be but there doesn't seem to be much room between what people indicate they're willing to pay ($99 yes, $399 no) and the $300+ it costs to build. How can this be a smart move given that they're vowed to quit the market and they lose moeny on each one? I guess, Lose $200 each but make it up in volume as my boss used to say.

I guess it depends...

If the option is to loose $318 worth of value for every unit's worth of material that was already in inventory vs. $200 for each one sold it may still be worthwhile to go through the exercise if they didn't think they could resell those materials, or shoehorn them into other products? And who knows, maybe they'll try $149 instead based on the resale prices they're seeing and only lose $150 each. The worst that happens is that they need to drop the price back to $99 and watch the feeding frenzy...

[LCHIEN]

I suppose it depends a great deal on what they think they'll sell for.
If not $99 I predict there'll be a lot of anger but that doesn't necessarily cost HP money since these customers have already been written off (unless they plan to buy printers).
If $200 I bet there's a whole lot less interest. Probably won't move significant numbers at $250 and up considering sales were dead at $400 for a live product with a future.
At $149... maybe they'll sell some.

They are apparently going to have to build these from incomplete WIP and in-stock parts. Probably many parts are custom and can't be returned or resold (screen, PC Board, etc) but some can be recouped like processors and memory unless they went in for special custom parts, which when making hundreds of thousands of units, you can do without much penalty).

I mostly deal with low production specialty industrial stuff (5, 10 20, 100 per year) so I'm no real familiar with high volume assembly costs but I'd guess there's at least $50 labor and burden if they use highly automated assembly.

Suppose they have parts for 200,000 units.
consider that the inventory was already written off in their minds.
Adding $50 assembly costs and selling it for 100, 150 or 200 dollars means they'll clear 50, 100 or 150 bucks compared with just scrapping parts stock. There doesn't seem to be much goodwill or intangibles to be gained.

so that's $10M, 20M or 30M they can make.
Given that they've already written off probably a billion dollars whats a few tens of million more or less? (difference between scrapping inventory or trying to sell units).

And as pointed out, they're just sending a message of "HP doesn't know what its doing". Got to be demoralizing for HPs employees and other customers.

It just doesn't make sense.

[LinuxRandal]

If they do another production run, I would suggest they consider putting Android on it. It took 8 days for me to see the first one on YouTube and placing on a discontinued OS, is just going to PO people, IMHO.

That said, I didn't realize all the $200 Android tablets out there. Between places like Sellout.woot, and rooted color Nooks (all prior to Amazon coming out with their Android based reader). Still a toy with questionable battery life.


However, it certainly has brought HP some publicity, and makes me wonder if they are trying a New Coke philosophy. I've seen a LOT more of HP's computers listed for sale (not ON sale) since the announcement. They don't seem to be clearancing them?

[Cochese]

I'd rather have WebOS on it than Android. From those who have experienced it, the goodness that is Android on a smartphone is a far cry from Android on a tablet.

If WebOS can be made to run Android apps, then it's a different story.

[dbhost]

I'd rather have WebOS on it than Android. From those who have experienced it, the goodness that is Android on a smartphone is a far cry from Android on a tablet.

If WebOS can be made to run Android apps, then it's a different story.

I beg to differ. I have experienced Android (Gingerbread) on a couple of tablets and it is every bit as enjoyable as on a phone... The bluetooth support is quite good and am able to use a real bluetooth keyboard with it no problem. Makes taking notes in meetings a snap. A 10" Android tablet with a keyboard / case is on my short list for Christmas this year for sure!

[BigguyZ]

I think I saw something saying that their still going to be developing WebOS. So it makes sense to me to do another run, as more WebOS devices means more need for WebOS programs, which will get more developers to look at the platform.

But I agree that it'd have to be $100-$150 for the 16GB version. at $200, I would think twice. The Asus tablet is pretty slick, and I've seen that the newer version's coming out in October, which will drop the price of the current model to around $300. That's what I'm waiting for. Add the dockable keyboard, and you double battery life and have a decent laptop replacement (IMHO).

[Cochese]

I beg to differ. I have experienced Android (Gingerbread) on a couple of tablets and it is every bit as enjoyable as on a phone... The bluetooth support is quite good and am able to use a real bluetooth keyboard with it no problem. Makes taking notes in meetings a snap. A 10" Android tablet with a keyboard / case is on my short list for Christmas this year for sure!

The reviews from a few others I trust have said it's a bit disappointing, and a lot of it depends on the hardware.

This has BT, but I haven't found a need for it yet. The worst thing about Android I've seen to this point is that there is no standard. That will be changing soon, but some things are so hit and miss.

[dbhost]

The reviews from a few others I trust have said it's a bit disappointing, and a lot of it depends on the hardware.

This has BT, but I haven't found a need for it yet. The worst thing about Android I've seen to this point is that there is no standard. That will be changing soon, but some things are so hit and miss.

To a certain, and mind you limited extent I agree with the no standard thing. But "Android" as an operating system is only from a single vendor (Google) and thus is in itself "Standardized". Where deviations occour is in the fact that Android itself is based on Linux, and heavily reliant on Open Source software, and Open Standards. I have found that in the Android Market, not all applications are Open Source, so peer review is often not done. This can, and does from time to time cause problems... No Android does not protect the user from themselves. Now having said that, certain carriers lock their installations so that the user can't get themselves into too much trouble.

It would be nice to see Google develop a reference standard for Android and Android apps, similar to the LSB (Linux Standards Base), or POSIX where an application developer can develop in, and a user can interact with known, well published environments. I understand that is coming soon... But the similarity at least between vendor products, like LG, HTC, Samsung etc... is so close that even iPhone users can be put on an Android device and get productive quickly...

Oh, on the reviews thing, take them for what you paid for them... I agree hardware makes a big difference. I LOVE my HTC Inspire, where a friend has a smaller LG phone, that is just, well, unstable... All of the tablets I have been exposed to have been dual core tabs with decent amounts of memory (32GB), and good responsive touch screens with good, or at least decent glare control. I have never used, but heard plenty about the older single core, low memory tablets to not have any interest in them at all...

I guess to each their own. I personally wouldn't have bothered with WebOS (renamed PalmOS) as it seemed to me to be a dying platform even before HP started backpedaling on hardware. I highly doubt that they will continue to support WebOS and I would rather not spend my money on a high tech paper weight.

This does give me pause thinking about my printers I have at home. A HP LaserJet 5N, and a PSC 1315 all in one machine. I wonder if ink / toner will remain available for them other than remanufactured junk... I may have to start looking at Lexmark or Dell printers soon...