Who Knows About This?

[cabinetman]

While at a garage/estate sale, this Samurai sword caught my eye. I'm not a collector, but the hand carved wood handle and sheath caught my attention, and I bought it. It appears to be in Mahogany. The overall length sheathed is 35". The handle is 11" long and 2" in diameter. The blade is too imperfect to be machine made. I have no idea how old or how valuable it is. Hopefully someone here is up on these things.
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[LCHIEN]

i'm not denying its old or handmade, but the traditional samurai sword looks like this with a blade of more or less uniform width down its length and a straight-curved handle (no sculptured handles) and scabbard. (photo from wikipedia):


And the good ones are total works of art - black lacquered handle and scabbard, super polished steel blade.

[cabinetman]

i'm not denying its old or handmade, but the traditional samurai sword looks like this with a blade of more or less uniform width down its length and a straight-curved handle (no sculptured handles) and scabbard. (photo from wikipedia):


And the good ones are total works of art - black lacquered handle and scabbard, super polished steel blade.

If it's not a "traditional samurai sword", my questions are still unanswered. Maybe I could ask in addition..."What kind of sword is it?"
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[dbhost]

Not sure. Giant cheese slicer maybe?

[dbhost]

Did little looking around. That does not appear to be a Japanese Samurai sword, but more likely a Chinese Dao (probably misspelled that). There appear to be many different styles of "Dao", the stylized hilt appears to be that of the Dadao (I am not making this junk up honestly!).

I can't find an exact match, but take a look at the Wikipedia article....

You may want to get it in to an antiques dealer and see what you have on your hands...

[natausch]

Not Japanese, prossibly Chinese or Indonesian, at least where it was manufactured.

The steel of the sword looks too perfect to be truly old. Possibly stainless?

The copper banding is also not quite green enough for it to be older than say 60-75 years. The style of the hand-guard and the screw on top joining the one piece blade to the hilt are also dead giveaways that this is a decorative piece. How is the edge? Are there sharpening marks or is it dull? Is it real springy or dead solid?

There was a HUGE market for "real Japanese" swords after WWII. Everyone wanted to be able to say how they took it from this or that Japanese officer. American companies made sure to flood the market. This might be one of them. Some of them look significantly more authentic, but this sword has some great carving on it.

Just because it isn't an actual war weapon doesn't mean that it doesn't have value. Still, I wouldn't expect that you'll find out its the lost masterpiece of a long dead Japanese swordmaker.

Other than an antique dealer I'd probably try to find out if you have a SCA chapter if you want to find more out about swords in general. Be careful though, since my wife is an avid medieval weapon fan I've found out those meetings can be all too like retirees discussing the displacement, troop strength and such of WWII Destroyers.

[cgallery]

I had one just like that, I think it was made by Chicago Cutlery, they referred to it as the 3XL-Butter Knife.

BTW, if I really had to guess origin, I'd say Mexico or South America.

[cabinetman]

The style of the hand-guard and the screw on top joining the one piece blade to the hilt are also dead giveaways that this is a decorative piece. How is the edge? Are there sharpening marks or is it dull? Is it real springy or dead solid?

It's not a screw on top, but a peened pin. It's been sharpened and the blade is very rigid.
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[natausch]

Cabinetman,

Then it could be significantly older, or at the very least hand-made instead of shop manufactured.

The fact that the blade has been sharpened also makes me wonder if my original glance was way off.

Do you think the blade was drop forged, stamped, or does it show a ripple/hammer marks from being hand forged?

[jking]

The copper banding is also not quite green enough for it to be older than say 60-75 years. The style of the hand-guard and the screw on top joining the one piece blade to the hilt are also dead giveaways that this is a decorative piece. How is the edge? Are there sharpening marks or is it dull? Is it real springy or dead solid?

Wouldn't the banding more than likely be brass or something similar? Copper seems like it would be rather soft for something like this.

[cabinetman]

Cabinetman,
Do you think the blade was drop forged, stamped, or does it show a ripple/hammer marks from being hand forged?

The blade looks like it was formed by hand, like it was pounded into shape.
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[natausch]

Cabinetman,

Sounds like it is either very old or very hand-made. At the very least drop by an antique dealer to see what they think of it.

jking,
My thought on the banding being copper is that brass or bronze are remarkably hard to work. Copper is soft enough to hammer into shape or heat to the point it can be stretched.

But, since it is tarnished, it could just as easily be bronze, brass or copper.

[Uncle Cracker]

I have a friend who is a top sword expert. I'll send the pics to him and see what his take is. I don't think it's of Japanese origin. I've never seen one like that in my training, anyway. If I had to guess, I'd say Filipino or African in origin, but may also just be a decor piece. The sheath and handle are too ornate and bulky to be of real use.

[leehljp]

I got into a little trouble on another forum in a PM over an unthinking comment I wrote by using the word "REAL" Japanese swords. A fellow asked me if I could get swords cheaper in Japan than he could back home. He listed the price of $300. Looking at the price, I wrote "REAL swords" start at $2000 for the cheapest. He responded that the swords he was asking about were REAL.

I had to back up and realize that I was talking TRUE Samarai hand made. Anything less is called nisei (second hand/reproduction). He was relating to an item - "sword" but did call it "samarai" - which it was not. Most people do not distinguish the difference. I know places that a person can pick up $200 - $500 dollar "tourist" swords all day long and the tourist will think that they have a "REAL" sword. Shucks, the REAL swords can be ordered with a price list for each part. The handles will cost $200 - $800. Then the other parts will run the price up out of sight.


The sword in the photos look Philippine to me or SE Asia - both the carving and the blade shape. I could be wrong. Not Japanese and I am fairly certain that it is not Chinese either.

[chopnhack]

My first glance made me think India for some reason.... I would be really curious to know what Uncle C's expert comes up with.